2023 Free Agency Thread

[membengal]

Quote

 

PFF

Explosive play rate over the last 3 seasons:

Irv Smith Jr - 21.4%
C.J. Uzomah - 18.2%
Hayden Hurst - 17.6%

 

 

[TJJackson]

no doubt that he can help, when he is healthy

his health is key

[membengal]

He's still just 24. He will only be one year older than current NFL draft talking heads crush Dalton Kincaid come the draft. 

[AMPHAR]

Irv is an athlete just can't get or stay on the field.   His age doesn't matter to me because hopefully he'll have his career year and then price himself out of the Bengals range. 

You get CJ's 800 snaps out of Irv Smith then ole Irv will probably have a career year.    If you get Hurst's 545 snaps out of Irv, then he'll probably have a career year.

I still think they'll draft a TE in the range that would seem reasonable to contribute as a rookie:

1. Irv has not proven he's reliable to stay on the field

2. Still have a TE spot open and even if they resign Sample or whoever back that probably just bumps the roster bubble guys. 

3. They'll have 2 TE spots open in 2024 IF they don't draft one

4. Draft class has good TEs

 

 

 

 

 

[membengal]

My longer thoughts on the Smith signing -

A few quick notes:

---Smith is still just 24. At the draft next month, current draft talking heads TE draft crush Dalton Kincaid upon being drafted will be just one year younger than Smith (only Smith will have four years of NFL experience while Kincaid will be a rookie).
---The injuries don't seem to have a pattern - so - the usual element of flukiness and bad luck. No particular reason to suspect that will necessarily continue. It could, because...the NFL is about injuries. But other than bad luck...no reason to predict it necessarily.
---Hurst had 52 catches for 414 yards and 2 TDs last year. In 2021 Uzomah had 49 catches for 493 yards and 5 TDs. I can glean from that, that under this version of the offense roughly 50 catches for TE 1 are available. Smith certainly is more athletic than Uzomah was and roughly on par with Hurst's athleticism. I see no reason to think he can't be in the range of these numbers.
---The price was certainly right and people can pooh pooh him picking the bengals over other options, but the fact remains, he picked the Bengals over other options. Didn't used to happen. Likely did so because the last two TEs in this offense putting up those rather pedestrian numbers have gotten weirdly PAID. Also, chance to, yaknow, WIN.
---This signing takes SOME pressure off what to do at pick 28. If there is a TE there they love, then they can still take him. But this opens up more comfortably waiting to rounds 3 or 4, say, and getting one of the 11 top 100 ranked TEs to work their way into the TE room without as much pressure to immediately be useful.

So, all around, pretty necessary and good signing from my perspective. Same with Sidney Jones. They are doing a good job in FA - even in second wave FA - at giving themselves legit options in the draft as opposed to having desperate needs that need to be fulfilled at 28...

[HoosierCat]

Yeah, they're doing fine. Before FA if you'd asked me if I'd swap Hurst, Bell AND Pratt for Brown, I would have said yes in less than a heartbeat. As it is we got Orlando and kept Germaine, and the other losses have been made up with guys who have the talent to be difference makers if they can stay on the field. And there's still the draft to go. Offseason grades are meaningless but for me this is an A so far.

[membengal]

My one lingering INC is over the RB room. But still time to sort that out. I am still chuffed that Mixon is still here and  for the moment on the books for the $12.7 number. I assume they will get that addressed but...until they do, feels like a major piece of unfinished business. 

 

They want to sign Zeke on the cheap to replace the Perine role in the offense and get a top RB - say - round 2 - to replace Mixon, then I go for sure to satisfied with how things are playing out...

[AMPHAR]

Key for Irv Smith, any additional TE, any Perine replacement and any Mixon replacement.   Can they get open underneath, catch and turn up field and get to the sticks?   Then out of this group you need a TE and RB you can count on in pass protection.

IMO,  that's the most important qualities these players need to have.     Teams aren't going to stop defending Burrow/Chase/Higgins with a strategy of 2 deep and rush 4.   The addition of Brown will certainly force teams to be more creative in rushing, IMO.    The Bengals will always give up pressures at higher than normal rate because they have an athletic extending play QB.   Brown will let them slide protection away and have a higher degree of confidence that the DE isn't going to set the LT in their lap.    Get a better protecting RT and it should be a bigger problem for defenses because then you can slide protection either way and have a higher degree the "man side" will hold up for longer.    Jonah Williams would be a better protecting RT over Collins/Adeniji/Prince.   I'd have to guess with all the problem the right side has had the past two years,  I would think they slid protection away from Williams more times than they slid toward him. 

[TJJackson]

Can Zeke passblock?

[COB]

Zeke is an outstanding pass blocker.  Dude’s a fire hydrant.

[ArmyBengal]

Not to be such a Buckeye's homer, but I really want Zeke in that Perine role.
I've accepted the Bengals are going to pay Mixon 12 million to be here this year.
Bring Zeke in and if they still want to draft Mixon's replacement, then great.

I think he would be motivated playing back in Ohio with a real shot at a Championship.

[COB]

I have not accepted that 12 million figure.  This offense is not married to this dude.  The FO has changed the way they do things, and with all the emphasis on free agents these last three years I can easily see them embracing the other side of that coin - freeing up cap room with contract redo or straight up cutting a guy.  
 

 

[membengal]

52 minutes ago, TJJackson said:

Can Zeke passblock?

What COB said. Zeke is an exemplary blocker. Great on blitz pickups etc

[ArmyBengal]

I would LOVE to see them do this.  I understand it's a change in their approach to contracts, but it's that very approach that will make it more of a challenge to keep other players when they have to start figuring in high end contracts.  No, reducing Mixon's contract alone won't equate to a new contract for Chase in and of itself, nor will cutting him, but it could certainly play a part regardless of how small or large.

That being said, I still don't think it happens, which irritates me to no end.

[TJJackson]

Thank you both for answering the Zeke passblocking question

My knowledge of him is limited to him being a great runner, albeit this was many years ago......so to me, I dont see him as any real value as a runner and as such wanted to know if he can bring passblocking value. 

How is his hands and ball security?

Mind you: I think he will want starter money and I dont see him as a starter, just a role player, so I dont see him signing.  Then again, maybe he has accepted that he isnt the player he once was and will take role player money.  we'll see.   Our coach seems sorta dismissive of him.

[membengal]

He’s an excellent pass catcher. He’s basically a better Perine. If they can get him for Perine’s role and price it’s a huge win. Then draft mixon’s replacement.

 

ETA - no one wants zeke as the main guy and no one will pay him for that role. 

[AMPHAR]

Zeke's weight gain is an issue.   If he produces like last year he's a downgrade from Perine.   You get in shape Zeke of previous years then its a clear upgrade.

He clearly lost favor to Pollard in the passing game this past season.      He caught 91 yards last year and a 1/3 of that was 1 play.   Bengals would need to comfortable this guy hasn't lost a step or decided to eat his way out of the league and could handle churning out receiving yards.

Smells like an incentive deal would be best but would he take that from Bengals considering Jerry Jones loves him and is hinting about signing him back?

[AMPHAR]

I have no idea why McKinnon wasn't on their radar last year and not this year.   He's a good pass protecting back.   A lot faster than Zeke and completely capable of producing more than Mixon/Perine receiving totals.    Cap hit of $1m last year.   Still available.

Age would be a factor, I guess.  

 

[TJJackson]

Thank you mem

I am hoping for a role player at this spot who is a good blocker, good receiver, good ball security, is mostly available, and at a reasonable price

doesnt have to be a great runner, which at this point in his carrier I dont think he is

[ArmyBengal]

Agree with an incentive type deal as well for Zeke.  Again, I would love his addition.
Pollard became the lead back due largely to the speed of his game, which Zeke does not have any longer.

However, I don't think his production was the concern.  Zeke missed 3 games last year due to injury as well.
If we are looking at production, it's pretty interesting.  Zeke is also only 27 so it's not he's 32 or something.
Perine is 27 and Mixon is 26.

In the 15 games Zeke played, he ran for 876 yards with 12 TD's and another 92 yards and no TD's receiving.
It was his first season not averaging at least 4 ypc, but the 12 TD's was tied for 2nd best in his career.
Pollard took the majority of passing plays, going for 371 yards and 3 TD's.  He's more dynamic than Zeke for sure.

In 16 games Perine ran for 394 yards with 2 TD's and another 287 yards and 2 TD's receiving.
In 14 games Mixon ran for 814 yards with 7 TD's and another 441 yards and 2 TD's receiving.

My point in Zeke is that he can certainly take the Perine role and should present as an upgrade.
Just know going in, he's not breaking off 75 yard runs where no one touches him anymore.

Yes, draft a speed element with pass blocking skills.

[TJJackson]

With young productive FA backs signing for 4-6M this offseason.....

https://sports.yahoo.com/how-concern-about-insulting-ezekiel-elliott-led-to-his-cowboys-release-214531546.html

.....I'd expect Elliot to sign for about 2M plus a performance incentives, with little or no guaranteed money

He might choose to retire rather than beat up his body more at that rate

You and I would jump without hesitation to grab 2M, but you and I havent banked the millions Elliot already has

[ArmyBengal]

Yeah I have no idea, as I haven't bothered to pay much attention, to the RB market.
I also have no idea what Zeke may be asking or what the Bengals would consider offering him.
All I know is that, at a minimum, he would match what Perine gave up.
Me and wanting to think better of things, might be looking for more.
I think he would be plenty motivated from a few different angles.

[membengal]

2 hours ago, ArmyBengal said:

Agree with an incentive type deal as well for Zeke.  Again, I would love his addition.
Pollard became the lead back due largely to the speed of his game, which Zeke does not have any longer.

However, I don't think his production was the concern.  Zeke missed 3 games last year due to injury as well.
If we are looking at production, it's pretty interesting.  Zeke is also only 27 so it's not he's 32 or something.
Perine is 27 and Mixon is 26.

In the 15 games Zeke played, he ran for 876 yards with 12 TD's and another 92 yards and no TD's receiving.
It was his first season not averaging at least 4 ypc, but the 12 TD's was tied for 2nd best in his career.
Pollard took the majority of passing plays, going for 371 yards and 3 TD's.  He's more dynamic than Zeke for sure.

In 16 games Perine ran for 394 yards with 2 TD's and another 287 yards and 2 TD's receiving.
In 14 games Mixon ran for 814 yards with 7 TD's and another 441 yards and 2 TD's receiving.

My point in Zeke is that he can certainly take the Perine role and should present as an upgrade.
Just know going in, he's not breaking off 75 yard runs where no one touches him anymore.

Yes, draft a speed element with pass blocking skills.

Yeah, I have NO idea what amphar is babbling about in complaining about Zeke's production last year.  Again, he's theoretically replacing Perine, and he's WAY more productive than perine. 

[AMPHAR]

2 hours ago, membengal said:

Yeah, I have NO idea what amphar is babbling about in complaining about Zeke's production last year.  Again, he's theoretically replacing Perine, and he's WAY more productive than perine. 

True you have no idea.     Perine got a deal quickly.   Zeke still waits.    Should tell you something but it doesn't.

He caught 91 yards, 31 came off 1 play.   They need a back that can pass protect and be a factor catching.

That role was taken away from Zeke.   Most likely because he was overweight or lost a step.

By the way,  we were never getting the All-Pro La'el Collins either.  Right?

A good pass protecting RB does nothing if they get cut down right after catching a ball.   That is what Perine was able to do and he was signed a lot faster than Zeke.   If it was that obvious Zeke would be signed already.   What do you know that these NFL GMs don't?

Perine was signed during tampering period.   Zeke has sat for 2 weeks.   ???????

Clearly there is some doubt about his abilities in NFL circles.   Is he asking for too much?  Is he fat and slow?  He's not WAY more productive than Perine. 

Rushing? He's a volume back.  His YPC was way less than Pollard behind the same line and a better line than the Cincy's last year.

[membengal]

Perine signed for peanuts. 

Zeke wants more than peanuts. He probably will be sad.

 

But just take your fucking "L" on calling Zeke not productive. You were just fucking wrong. Just be wrong. Or, for once, admit you were wrong. You can do it.