2024 Offseason News Thread

[AMPHAR]

If they can bring back the same TE group with a slight increase in cap room its a win, IMO.    All 4 are FA.  2 restricted and 2 unrestricted.    Last year the group was under 2% cap room.    I think its possible to give them all a raise (if they want too) and keep it under 2% of cap this year.

I'd only want to see high priced TE or highly drafted TE, to replace void of losing Higgins and them committing to that TE playing 95%+ snaps.

With the assumption of tagging/keeping Tee.   There's no room for a big investment in TE.   Burrow/Chase/Higgins/5 OL/some RB are going to be on the field 95%+.   That leaves you 2 slots to rotate the following:

1. They always use some form of blocking TE. 

2. They'll have some form of slot WR rotation.

3. A few time empty, a few times 2 Rb, a few times 2 TE. 

The current TE group.   I assume they are happy with Sample and his duties.  Tanner appears good enough to get balls when coverage dictates.   Irv Smith the same (fans act like he's $8m player when he's cheap as hell).

 

 

[volcom69]

Sounds like somebody is not getting a piece of the pie!

[ArmyBengal]

I don't think about or care how much they pay Irv Smith, but whatever it is, it's too much.
HE SUCKS !!

[TJJackson]

finally some good news for us

https://www.cincyjungle.com/2024/1/31/24057148/ravens-mike-macdonald-seahawks-defense-nfl-history

[HoosierCat]

5 hours ago, TJJackson said:

finally some good news for us

https://www.cincyjungle.com/2024/1/31/24057148/ravens-mike-macdonald-seahawks-defense-nfl-history

Good.

[AMPHAR]

19 hours ago, ArmyBengal said:

I don't think about or care how much they pay Irv Smith, but whatever it is, it's too much.
HE SUCKS !!

Disagree.   There was a lot of misplace emotion over Irv and the TE group as a whole during the season.   It was misplaced because the way things worked out the group was more platoon vs. 2021 and 2022 that saw a singular TE get the majority of snaps, targets, catches.    However the 2023 group was more productive in yards and cheaper than both years.

Irv in particular has 2 major plays taken from him that would have changed his perception that I saw during All 22 reviews.   I'm not sure what his future demands will be or the Bengals thoughts I would certainly welcome back the entire TE group at the same percentage of cap.

2021 TE production - 590 yards 5 TD, Main contributor CJ - Accumulative Cap 8.4m

2022 TE production - 553 yards 3 TD, Main contributor Hurst - Accumulative Cap 5.2m

2023 TE production - 686 yards 4 TD, Platoon leading receiver Tanner, - Accumulative Cap 4.4m

Was that extra TD from CJ worth the extra 4m in cap room?    Mid season there was a bunch of misplaced hand wringing over TE  group from Media and Fans because the franchise QB couldn't throw and the OL can't block until after the bye week.

 

 

[ArmyBengal]

I actually would like Tanner Hudson back, if for no other reason than Burrow loves the kid.
Based upon what we saw from him, it would appear he should have been brought up much sooner than he was.
He finished with 39 receptions for 352 yards and a TD. A big note that 21 of his 39 catches went for first downs.  Nice percentage.
He cost the Bengals $940,000k.

Meanwhile, Irv Smith Jr. had 18 receptions for 115 yards and a TD.  He had 5 first downs on the season.
He cost the Bengals $1.75 million.

Yes, he got paid too much.  Yes, he sucked for what he produced for the season.  His replacement should be found.
If the Bengals were to draft a 3rd round TE this year, which I would have no problem with, that pick will cost them roughly $1.5 million per year for the next 4 years.  Cheaper than what they paid Irv Smith this year and provides some consistency for the team in the coming years.  Pair him up with Hudson and Sample, who shouldn't cost a buttload and I think they are onto something.  Just don't bring Irv Smith back.

[HoosierCat]

Nah, there was a lot of emotion over the TE situation midseason because Irv Smith sucked, and that's why the "platoon" happened.

Prior to the week 8 game against the Bills, Irv was clearly the man at TE. He was the starter, with Sample as the No. 2. The only times Hudson got involved in the first seven games were in weeks 3 and 4 when Irv was out.

And Irv sucked. Missed two games, had no touches in a third, and amassed just 57 yards, no touchdowns, and a lost fumble in the other four games.

For the next few weeks they would platoon Irv, Hudson and Sample, and Irv was routinely the least effective. By the last month and half of the season, Irv had basically vanished and it was the Hudson and Sample show.

I don't see any need to bring Smith back.

[AMPHAR]

2 hours ago, HoosierCat said:

Nah, there was a lot of emotion over the TE situation midseason because Irv Smith sucked, and that's why the "platoon" happened.

Prior to the week 8 game against the Bills, Irv was clearly the man at TE. He was the starter, with Sample as the No. 2. The only times Hudson got involved in the first seven games were in weeks 3 and 4 when Irv was out.

And Irv sucked. Missed two games, had no touches in a third, and amassed just 57 yards, no touchdowns, and a lost fumble in the other four games.

For the next few weeks they would platoon Irv, Hudson and Sample, and Irv was routinely the least effective. By the last month and half of the season, Irv had basically vanished and it was the Hudson and Sample show.

I don't see any need to bring Smith back.

Chase didn't score a TD until week 5!  I change my mind, the Bengals shouldn't extend him.

Why should they franchise tag a WR that didn't catch 650 yards?     We should fire coaches because our AFC North record was 1-5.

If there's only a underlining factor we could understand to explains ALL these deviations from the norm.

Oh wait there is..... Burrow's calf.     Fans all piss off about a former 2nd round pick making $1.7m, lol.   ALL MY GOD we can't have that.   Don't want that.    WTF?

 

[ArmyBengal]

I already said that I don't care how much he made, only that he didn't deserve it.  Fact is, he didn't.
I honestly had no idea he made that much until you brought it up and I went and looked.

My point to all of it?

Irv Smith can fuck off.  He sucks.  
Kind of hard to argue that point really.

If the argument is Burrow's calf, he actually did better when Burrow was hurt to start the season.
Maybe the argument should be that Browning didn't like him if we are making shit up as we go.

[AMPHAR]

Overall point being.   Money your going to spend and cap allocated for Irv Smith and any other TE from 2023 will be close to a 2nd round pick or lower.  $1.3m to .7m.   At the same time not precluding them from using a 2nd round pick or lower to try to better the position if opportunity arises.     

Sign those guys up.  Try to find more of them if you can (any position).   If you can do better, fine.  Cut them when you do.

Its the same deal as Eli Apple.  It was a gamble.  Eli proved to be way more successful than Irv at this point but I believe Burrow's calf and wrist hurt a lot of individual players stats and I wouldn't blindly ignore good value because of 2023 stats. 

Based on what I saw you sign Irv and the rest of the TEs at around the same cap allocation.   Who ends up TE1 or TE4? Who cares?   Irv and Tanner can put up comparable numbers to 2021/2022 if given the targets.  Sample gets playing time because he fits the blocking role well.

 

 

 

 

[AMPHAR]

6 minutes ago, ArmyBengal said:

I already said that I don't care how much he made, only that he didn't deserve it.  Fact is, he didn't.
I honestly had no idea he made that much until you brought it up and I went and looked.

My point to all of it?

Irv Smith can fuck off.  He sucks.  
Kind of hard to argue that point really.

If the argument is Burrow's calf, he actually did better when Burrow was hurt to start the season.
Maybe the argument should be that Browning didn't like him if we are making shit up as we go.

lol.  This pissed off over a guy that made a notch over league min.   Alrighty then.  Fuck him, lol.

I'm going to say it'd be a good move to sign him up again for about the same level.   Ahhhh panic.

 

[ArmyBengal]

Nope, no panic.  If they want to bring Irv back, they can certainly do that.  I just don't know why you would.
He sucked when Burrow was hurt, sucked when he was healthy, sucked when Browning took over and pretty much sucked for most of his playing time in Minnesota.  Why pay that guy anything?  Shit, Sample got paid a half million less and outperformed him even though he mainly works as a blocker.

Not sure why you think I'm pissed off.  Is it because I said he could "fuck off"?
Maybe I should have been less vulgar and simply said, he can go away.
That sounds less aggressive, so there.

I'm not mad that he sucks.  His suckage is his problem.  I just don't want it being the Bengals.

[HoosierCat]

1 hour ago, AMPHAR said:

Chase didn't score a TD until week 5!  I change my mind, the Bengals shouldn't extend him.

Why should they franchise tag a WR that didn't catch 650 yards?     We should fire coaches because our AFC North record was 1-5.

If there's only a underlining factor we could understand to explains ALL these deviations from the norm.

Oh wait there is..... Burrow's calf.     Fans all piss off about a former 2nd round pick making $1.7m, lol.   ALL MY GOD we can't have that.   Don't want that.    WTF?

 

Burrow’s calf has nothing to do with it. Smith was bad when the calf was bad and Smith was bad when the calf was good. He was so bad he got passed on the depth chart by a 29-year-old career journeyman and barely saw the field in the second half of the season. With the playoffs on the line, he was a fucking healthy scratch! He’s not worth spending a plugged nickel to bring back.

[COB]

The raiders have officially hired Marvin as the assistant head coach.  He’ll play the role of wise old NFL lifer who will instill in the Raiders a unique ability to get the living shit kicked out of them any time they’re on a prime time night game or in the playoffs.  

[COB]

You know that scene in brokeback mountain where the gay cowboy goes “I can’t quit you,”?  That’s me in regards to DJ Reader.  Seriously see what the doctors say about that leg and sign him.  That injury should pull him down into an affordable range especially because we should be able to get him for a two year deal.  Our defense is noticeably different when he’s in there, he’s a great, very underrated, player. 
 

Irv Smith is outside right now cleaning out my gutters.  Dude’s a bum.  Maybe he can revive his career somewhere else, he should try because it just didn’t work here.  

[AMPHAR]

17 hours ago, HoosierCat said:

Burrow’s calf has nothing to do with it. Smith was bad when the calf was bad and Smith was bad when the calf was good. He was so bad he got passed on the depth chart by a 29-year-old career journeyman and barely saw the field in the second half of the season. With the playoffs on the line, he was a fucking healthy scratch! He’s not worth spending a plugged nickel to bring back.

lol.   In the first 6 games,  4 games the offense ran less than 55 plays.   Burrow's calf effected EVERY offensive stat.   Bad point. 

Depth chart?  What does that matter?  Irv was paid slightly more than UDFA.   So your saying a guy with 2nd round talent shouldn't be considered anywhere on the roster for an extra $1m of cap space.

Who runs around screaming about Mike Brown being cheap all the time?  Injury pad, lol. 

 

 

 

[HoosierCat]

8 hours ago, COB said:

You know that scene in brokeback mountain where the gay cowboy goes “I can’t quit you,”?  That’s me in regards to DJ Reader.  Seriously see what the doctors say about that leg and sign him.  That injury should pull him down into an affordable range especially because we should be able to get him for a two year deal.  Our defense is noticeably different when he’s in there, he’s a great, very underrated, player.

From what Dehner wrote yesterday it sounds like they very much want Reader back.

Quote

The trenches always live near the top of the list, Potts said, reinforcements on the defensive interior being especially notable.

Fixing the issue of giving up explosive plays led nearly every conversation with defensive coordinator Lou Anarumo this month and involve a brutally honest evaluation of the best path forward with every member of the secondary.

“Whether it’s scheme or development issues or a little bit of both,” Potts said, “that is something you have to fix.”

The thought of losing defensive tackle DJ Reader, whom Radicevic called “an instrumental part of building the foundation,” doesn’t sit well with anyone as they search for a way to retain him.

There was also this nugget:

Quote

Dax Hill’s first year as a starting safety was uneven. A conversation now builds internally about what comes next for one of the most athletically gifted players on the roster and if that involves a position switch or double down.

“Dax, the safety element was the projection, we knew physically he had the ability to play safety, but he was primarily a slot corner at Michigan,” Potts said. “Everybody knows he can do that.”

DJ Turner started fast but hit the wall coming off a long season at Michigan, eventually logging the third-most snaps at outside corner of all rookies. He has position flexibility from his time with the Wolverines. Even veteran Mike Hilton shifted into 34 snaps at free safety last season. Jordan Battle laid a foundation to take a step as an answer on the back end.

Sounds like a camp battle is coming for the FS spot.

[AMPHAR]

9 hours ago, COB said:

You know that scene in brokeback mountain where the gay cowboy goes “I can’t quit you,”?  That’s me in regards to DJ Reader.  Seriously see what the doctors say about that leg and sign him.  That injury should pull him down into an affordable range especially because we should be able to get him for a two year deal.  Our defense is noticeably different when he’s in there, he’s a great, very underrated, player. 
 

Irv Smith is outside right now cleaning out my gutters.  Dude’s a bum.  Maybe he can revive his career somewhere else, he should try because it just didn’t work here.  

The projections of DJ Reader's contract makes him a hard pass for me at this point.    The D-line run defense was problem most of the year followed strongly by Dax, Scott, and Battle taking bad angles, followed by the unit as a whole tackling the ball.   

He's the wrong side of 30 and major injury.  He could prove to come back from all that but I'd pass at anything over a prove it deal at this point.

[HoosierCat]

1 minute ago, AMPHAR said:

lol.   In the first 6 games,  4 games the offense ran less than 55 plays.   Burrow's calf effected EVERY offensive stat.   Bad point. 

Depth chart?  What does that matter?  Irv was paid slightly more than UDFA.   So your saying a guy with 2nd round talent shouldn't be considered anywhere on the roster for an extra $1m of cap space.

Who runs around screaming about Mike Brown being cheap all the time?  Injury pad, lol.

Has nothing to do with the depth chart, it's actual snap counts. The Bengals' actual use of Smith in the second half of the year was basically nil. Why would they bring back a guy they didn't even bother to play half the year?

[AMPHAR]

6 minutes ago, HoosierCat said:

From what Dehner wrote yesterday it sounds like they very much want Reader back.

There was also this nugget:

Sounds like a camp battle is coming for the FS spot.

I would put it more on Lou.   Big plays is the issue they admit to.    The secondary as a whole screams youth and potential.   Figure out the best roles adapt the scheme as necessary. 

 

[COB]

All he has to prove is his health.  If he’s healthy he can play.  Maybe not to the level of the vaunted Irv Smith, but he can play his position.

[AMPHAR]

18 minutes ago, HoosierCat said:

Has nothing to do with the depth chart, it's actual snap counts. The Bengals' actual use of Smith in the second half of the year was basically nil. Why would they bring back a guy they didn't even bother to play half the year?

 Already explained this several times above.   A 2nd round pick will count somewhere around $1.4m.  A UDFA that makes the roster $0.7m.    Irv at $1.7 fits and his potential does too.

That's it.   He's got the talent that fits in that range.  He's got a little more cap cost but not much.   There's no loss if he's not active the entire year.   He also will not preclude them from drafting any TE they may like.

Irv Smith could match Hurst's 2022 if the position group suffered those same injuries they did in 2022.   If he don't play, then they are literally out nothing. 

 

 

[ArmyBengal]

Are we really still discussing Irv fucking Smith today?

I'd rather talk about Shaka Heyward making the team this year as a linebacker.

(Not really)

[AMPHAR]

1 hour ago, COB said:

All he has to prove is his health.  If he’s healthy he can play.  Maybe not to the level of the vaunted Irv Smith, but he can play his position.

Nah.   Burrow was cleared, Burrow played, Burrow wasn't the same for several weeks.   If some team wants to sign DJ Reader in March, more power to them.   I'd say prove it deal in July and would not worry about losing him.