Carson Palmer Thread

[jjakq27]

I'm thinking Palmer's value should resemble that of Drew Bledsoe in 2002. He garnered a #1 pick from the Buff Bills. What do you folks think he's worth?

A high first or a mid first and a second..

Maybe more. He instantly makes average teams playoff competitors. He is a good QB. had a bad year this year but had times when he was on point.

Has at least 4 more years in him. At least.

He pisses me off - Yes. A lot this year. But he is better than:

Cutler

Orton

Smith

Hasselbeck

Arizona QB

Henne

Stafford

Flacco (Yes Flacco)

Sanchez

McCoy

Manning (Kidding)

Campbell

Garrard

Titans QB

Minnesota QB

Dallas QB

And we have NO backup

http://espn.go.com/n...ng/seasontype/2

Here are this past season's passer ratings. When Herm Edward was on Mike and Mike yesterday, they came to the same conclusion you did with your list. He is better or at least even with most of the guys on the list once you get past the top 10 or so. There was even some hedging on if he was better than Freeman, Flacco and Cassel who were 6, 7 and 8 this season. He was ranked 19 by these stats.

If you click on the column heading it will resort the list by that category. Carson was No. 9 in TD's with 26 while finishing third with 20 interceptions behind Eli Manning (25) and Drew Brees (22). He finished 6th in passing yards with 3970 and fourth in attempts (586) and completions (362).

[COB]

Someone used the term "circus" recently. Looks like that might have been the truth last year.

http://www.nationalf...-teammates.html

Causing frustration to quarterback Carson Palmer and a group of hard-working teammates, aggravating coaches and triggering consternation within the organization, a "circus atmosphere" made a difficult situation even worse during a dreadful season ...

According to sources, several players, including Palmer, want a more serious approach to football without constant controversies and distractions.

Really and i think alot of us fans would like the same thing please........no more drama and more winning football

So essentially, Chad and his infantile look-at-me antics ruined the professional atmosphere. So serious players couldn't get anything going.

And Mike Brown wants Chad back.

Pumpkin, you better get off your ass and assert yourself, or your father is going to drive this team into a football wasteland. Then he'll die or retire and you'll have a 4 year rebuild to do. Wake the f**k up, Pumpkin or you'll face a day of reckoning. You'll rue the day you sat idly by while your father rearranged the deck chairs.

[derekshank]

Please understand: you will not get any picks for this year's draft! The trade deadline has already passed and there won't be a new one until the next CBA is signed. If they sign a new CBA before the draft, this all changes. But for the time being everyone is going forward as if there will not be a new CBA anytime soon

The 2010 trade deadline has nothing to do with the draft. Players can be traded for picks on the day of the draft. It happens all the time.

As for the CBA, I'm guessing no trades will be made unless a new CBA is in effect prior to the draft because of risk involved, so you're right... but it only strengthens my point. I'm saying, it is not in the Bengals best interest to trade Palmer. It would be better to cut Chad and hopefully appease him to some extent.

[jjakq27]

From NFL.com

http://www.nfl.com/n...-bengals-future

On that note, Bengals coaches have privately said that part of the reason why Palmer looked so bad at times is because Ochocinco and Owens routinely broke off routes, leaving Palmer throwing the ball to areas (or opposing defenders).

When I read crap like this it pisses me off. Chad's been in this system two years longer than Carson, yet he still can't run his fkn routes right. At this point he should be telling Carson what the plays are. It's not like we didn't know or see any of this but when I read about it and the coaches aren't able to instill that discipline and attention to detail, what the fk is the point of ever passing the ball? How many games did that cost us?

[Sea Ray]

Please understand: you will not get any picks for this year's draft! The trade deadline has already passed and there won't be a new one until the next CBA is signed. If they sign a new CBA before the draft, this all changes. But for the time being everyone is going forward as if there will not be a new CBA anytime soon

The 2010 trade deadline has nothing to do with the draft. Players can be traded for picks on the day of the draft. It happens all the time.

As for the CBA, I'm guessing no trades will be made unless a new CBA is in effect prior to the draft because of risk involved, so you're right... but it only strengthens my point. I'm saying, it is not in the Bengals best interest to trade Palmer. It would be better to cut Chad and hopefully appease him to some extent.

The trade deadline generally starts in early March. Since that's when this CBA ends there can be no new trading until a new CBA defines one. The thinking is that they probably can trade draftpicks but not players. Thus it's not so much the risk involved. It's the fact that there is no trading period set up as of now. I'm under the impression that the trading deadline has to do with trading "contracts" i.e. players. Is that the way you see it?

[volcom69]

From NFL.com

http://www.nfl.com/n...-bengals-future

On that note, Bengals coaches have privately said that part of the reason why Palmer looked so bad at times is because Ochocinco and Owens routinely broke off routes, leaving Palmer throwing the ball to areas (or opposing defenders).

When I read crap like this it pisses me off. Chad's been in this system two years longer than Carson, yet he still can't run his fkn routes right. At this point he should be telling Carson what the plays are. It's not like we didn't know or see any of this but when I read about it and the coaches aren't able to instill that discipline and attention to detail, what the fk is the point of ever passing the ball? How many games did that cost us?

Well we have been saying this all year long!!! Not only did they break there routes off early, but watch the effort that TO put in when trying to catch the ball, it was horrible. Or how about the fits Chad threw because he wasnt getting the ball. Pathetic!!

Worst move was to bring in TO, it changed everything they were. In 2009 they had an identity, in 2010 they didnt even know who they were, because Marvin thought he had to please TO by throwing the ball!!!! TO and Chad together turned out to be a disaster, look at how Chad played in 2009, sure he was not 2005 material, but at least he fought on every play and made the effort. With TO here it was like this season was a joke, and it was more about twitter, and TOcho show!!!

This is why its a circus here, because there is no discipline!!! In 2009 they played like a team, in 2010 they played for themselves! Its time to move on from this drama, its time to bring a tougher atmosphere to the Bengals org. Its starts at the top with Marvin.....stop acting like a kid and come down on these players!!!!! Time to get back to the ground and pound ball control offense, and play strong defense!!

[HoosierCat]

So essentially, Chad and his infantile look-at-me antics ruined the professional atmosphere.

I would say no. Oh, Chad's part of it but he's just a symptom. The whole organization is a circus, from the three-headed hydra GM to the unaccountable coaches to the wretched refuse of the NFL who are routinely brought in (TO, Coke Zero, Pacman, etc.) to the clowns, like Chad, in the locker room. History tells us that if Chad goes, it won't be long before his replacement is drafted. The rot starts at the (big) top.

I think he figures that if he wants to be mediocre, he can just retire to Cali, change his kids' diapers, mow the lawn, join a bowling league, flip burgers on the grill in the backyard and look forward to the weekly "date night" with his wife. He'll still be making hundreds of thousands, if not millions, a year and as an extra added bonus doesn't have to get his ass kicked for half the year. Yeah, he thinks, it sucks that I won't be playing anymore, but any more years in Cincy would just be a waste of time.

[BengalszoneBilly]

So essentially, Chad and his infantile look-at-me antics ruined the professional atmosphere.

I would say no. Oh, Chad's part of it but he's just a symptom. The whole organization is a circus, from the three-headed hydra GM to the unaccountable coaches to the wretched refuse of the NFL who are routinely brought in (TO, Coke Zero, Pacman, etc.) to the clowns, like Chad, in the locker room. History tells us that if Chad goes, it won't be long before his replacement is drafted. The rot starts at the (big) top.

I think he figures that if he wants to be mediocre, he can just retire to Cali, change his kids' diapers, mow the lawn, join a bowling league, flip burgers on the grill in the backyard and look forward to the weekly "date night" with his wife. He'll still be making hundreds of thousands, if not millions, a year and as an extra added bonus doesn't have to get his ass kicked for half the year. Yeah, he thinks, it sucks that I won't be playing anymore, but any more years in Cincy would just be a waste of time.

Well put.

[bwillycuse]

From NFL.com

http://www.nfl.com/n...-bengals-future

On that note, Bengals coaches have privately said that part of the reason why Palmer looked so bad at times is because Ochocinco and Owens routinely broke off routes, leaving Palmer throwing the ball to areas (or opposing defenders).

When I read crap like this it pisses me off. Chad's been in this system two years longer than Carson, yet he still can't run his fkn routes right. At this point he should be telling Carson what the plays are. It's not like we didn't know or see any of this but when I read about it and the coaches aren't able to instill that discipline and attention to detail, what the fk is the point of ever passing the ball? How many games did that cost us?

Well, that may be true for TO but not Chad this year. I thbink 3 were thrown towards Chad this year and I know one was a tewrrible underthown ball for a pick 6 that wasn't close to a wrong route.

I'm not gonna dig up the stats but gresham, ship, and TO had the worst int per pass ratio.

[TJJackson]

Does Palmer for Gabbert and a conditional 3rd really sound that appealing?

If you believe Palmer will carry through on his retirement threat (and for the moment, I do) then yes, I'll gladly take the picks (assuming they are available) in place of nothing

If you believe Palmer will cave and play - then no

Of course, all this is moot until trades are permitted once again

[BengalszoneBilly]

Does Palmer for Gabbert and a conditional 3rd really sound that appealing?

If you believe Palmer will carry through on his retirement threat (and for the moment, I do) then yes, I'll gladly take the picks (assuming they are available) in place of nothing

If you believe Palmer will cave and play - then no

Of course, all this is moot until trades are permitted once again

I honestly feel Carson won't cave. He's had his fill and would rather go back home to the west coast and enjoy being with his family rather than being the center piece of a team that is the laughing stock of the league.

[TJJackson]

I honestly feel Carson won't cave. He's had his fill and would rather go back home to the west coast and enjoy being with his family rather than being the center piece of a team that is the laughing stock of the league.

Now you and I (and pretty much any sane person) would not leave a job paying 50 million over the next 3 years, even if the job consisted of 40 hours a week of scrubbing Mike Brown's floor with a toothbrush while continuously exclaiming what a wonderful fellow and great GM he is

But when you are paid at the level Carson is, you've already got tens of millions in the bank, and so another 50mil isn't nearly as attractive.

and then again.....maybe after the first year of floor scrubbing and false praise, with approx 8 million (50 divided by 3 = 16.7 mil, then subtract taxes) in the bank, I might well have second thoughts too. I think me and my family could get along alright living off the 8 mil for the rest of our lives, and then some.

And I could recommend you for the job for the second year :-)

[Sea Ray]

I don't buy the Chad breaking routes off early stuff. That would lead to overthrows, not pick 6s. Carson threw way too many that were right in the numbers of defenders in the name of "he never saw them".

Carson still has these problems, teammates aside:

1) He stares down his receivers

2) No mobility

3) No ability to throw on the run or outside the pocket

This makes him easy to gameplan for. I'd like to see if a new OC could address these issues with him but I'm not sure I'll get my wish

[jjakq27]

This makes him easy to gameplan for. I'd like to see if a new OC could address these issues with him but I'm not sure I'll get my wish

An adequate backup QB or QB coach could also help remedy these problems but I don't think either of them are on the staff or roster right now.

[Sea Ray]

Incidently on Monday Reedy did confirm that no trades are possible for the time being:

Even if the Bengals were to be receptive to offers, no trades can happen until a new collective bargaining agreement is reached.

>http://cincinnati.com/blogs/bengals/2011/01/24/mike-brown-on-palmer-we-arent-looking-for-offers/

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

I don't buy the Chad breaking routes off early stuff. That would lead to overthrows, not pick 6s. Carson threw way too many that were right in the numbers of defenders in the name of "he never saw them".

The problems with Chad that I recall are WR reads, where you can go inside or outside and the WR and QB have to read it the same way. In the past, Chad and Carson have had INTs due to that. I blame Brat for that primarily, for having an offense with too many points of failure.

For what it's worth, most of the Pick 6s of Carson's that I recall are that throw into the flat on an out route that he floats, the CB undercuts, and takes it in for a score. And those are, indeed, all on Carson so far as I can tell.

[HoosierCat]

Now you and I (and pretty much any sane person) would not leave a job paying 50 million over the next 3 years, even if the job consisted of 40 hours a week of scrubbing Mike Brown's floor with a toothbrush while continuously exclaiming what a wonderful fellow and great GM he is

One thing to remember is that the "$50 million" isn't totally accurate.

For one thing, federal and state taxes would eat up a big portion of that money.

And second, it assumes he plays out his whole contract at its current value, and the Bengals asked him to take a pay cut in December, which he refused to do. Once that happened, I think Carson saw the writing on the wall and figured that the team would be looking to replace him sooner rather than later. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if they told him straight-out in December that if he didn't take a cut they would have to consider a QB next April.

My bet is that once Carson turned down the pay cut, he figured he was unlikely to last beyond 2012 and maybe not even beyond 2011.

[COB]

So essentially, Chad and his infantile look-at-me antics ruined the professional atmosphere.

I would say no. Oh, Chad's part of it but he's just a symptom. The whole organization is a circus, from the three-headed hydra GM to the unaccountable coaches to the wretched refuse of the NFL who are routinely brought in (TO, Coke Zero, Pacman, etc.) to the clowns, like Chad, in the locker room. History tells us that if Chad goes, it won't be long before his replacement is drafted. The rot starts at the (big) top.

I think he figures that if he wants to be mediocre, he can just retire to Cali, change his kids' diapers, mow the lawn, join a bowling league, flip burgers on the grill in the backyard and look forward to the weekly "date night" with his wife. He'll still be making hundreds of thousands, if not millions, a year and as an extra added bonus doesn't have to get his ass kicked for half the year. Yeah, he thinks, it sucks that I won't be playing anymore, but any more years in Cincy would just be a waste of time.

I agree that the front office is ineffective and at times moronic. But I believe the reference to a circus-like atmosphere is directly talking about Chad and to some degree T.O.

The front office issues, while reprehensible, in no way resemble a circus or create the circus like atmosphere Carson was talking about. To the contrary, Mike basically hides all the time. The Bengals front office may be the least flamboyant, least circus-like, front office that exists. They barely have a pulse.

[Sea Ray]

My bet is that once Carson turned down the pay cut, he figured he was unlikely to last beyond 2012 and maybe not even beyond 2011.

What source do you have that the Bengals tried to get him to take a paycut? On Dec 19th Hobs wrote this:

Palmer has been blissfully ignoring next season. The Bengals have not only not approached him about a pay cut for next season, but all indications are a pay cut isn't even on their agenda. So an ESPN.com story saying he wouldn’t take a pay cut to stay in Cincinnati looks to be moot.

>http://www.bengals.com/news/article-1/Streak-buster/92c7f948-a85c-4cfa-9d00-fc6ab1c7ca70

Say what you want about Mike Brown but I really don't think he'd ask his star QB to take a paycut. I doubt that happened

[jjakq27]

My bet is that once Carson turned down the pay cut, he figured he was unlikely to last beyond 2012 and maybe not even beyond 2011.

What source do you have that the Bengals tried to get him to take a paycut? On Dec 19th Hobs wrote this:

Palmer has been blissfully ignoring next season. The Bengals have not only not approached him about a pay cut for next season, but all indications are a pay cut isn't even on their agenda. So an ESPN.com story saying he wouldn't take a pay cut to stay in Cincinnati looks to be moot.

http://www.bengals.c...00-fc6ab1c7ca70

Say what you want about Mike Brown but I really don't think he'd ask his star QB to take a paycut. I doubt that happened

I had heard a rumor that Carson's house was going on the market before the end of the season. That coincided with the purchase of the property near San Diego. It makes me think that his mind was made up then. So the fact that the so-called pay cut was in the press, regardless of it's validity gave them reason to consider that possibility and decide it truly was time to bail.

One of the local talk guys mentioned that people were continually trashing the Palmer's yard after games. That surely can't be helping with the reasons to stay.

[kingwilly]

My bet is that once Carson turned down the pay cut, he figured he was unlikely to last beyond 2012 and maybe not even beyond 2011.

What source do you have that the Bengals tried to get him to take a paycut? On Dec 19th Hobs wrote this:

Palmer has been blissfully ignoring next season. The Bengals have not only not approached him about a pay cut for next season, but all indications are a pay cut isn't even on their agenda. So an ESPN.com story saying he wouldn't take a pay cut to stay in Cincinnati looks to be moot.

http://www.bengals.c...00-fc6ab1c7ca70

Say what you want about Mike Brown but I really don't think he'd ask his star QB to take a paycut. I doubt that happened

I had heard a rumor that Carson's house was going on the market before the end of the season. That coincided with the purchase of the property near San Diego. It makes me think that his mind was made up then. So the fact that the so-called pay cut was in the press, regardless of it's validity gave them reason to consider that possibility and decide it truly was time to bail.

One of the local talk guys mentioned that people were continually trashing the Palmer's yard after games. That surely can't be helping with the reasons to stay.

I have a HS friend who lives in Indian Hill and knows which house is Palmer's. He relayed to me that the house was for sale. I posted that months ago. not sure if it sold or not.

As to trashing his yard, I'll ask my friend but he had never mentioned such a thing.

[jjakq27]

I have a HS friend who lives in Indian Hill and knows which house is Palmer's. He relayed to me that the house was for sale. I posted that months ago. not sure if it sold or not.

As to trashing his yard, I'll ask my friend but he had never mentioned such a thing.

I heard it second hand but it was mentioned on Bill Cunningham's show Monday when the story was first breaking.

[HoosierCat]

The front office issues, while reprehensible, in no way resemble a circus or create the circus like atmosphere Carson was talking about.

Well, I guess we're just going to have to agree to disagee on this, because the circus doesn't happen if Ringmaster Brown doesn't continually sign clowns and hooligans.

[COB]

Well, I guess we're just going to have to agree to disagee on this,

I hereby refuse to agree to disagree. I'm just going to disagree without agreeing to do so, that's how disagreeable I am.

You are correct in regards to the ringmaster. Every circus needs one, and Mike Brown certainly fits the bill. His apparent willingness and even desire to bring Chad back for another performance boggles the mind. What, exactly, is he trying to accomplish? It's pretty obvious his younger guys are better. His quarterback is making it clear he doesn't want Chad back. Chad himself doesn't want to come back. I don't think he has any fans that want him back. Where is the logic behind this? What's the upside Mike Brown seeks?

[ArmyBengal]

Well, if Carson's house is for sale, he hasn't sold it yet.

At least not according to the Hamilton County Auditors office.