Sea Ray Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 A.J. Green?The Cold, Hard Football Facts say NO!I'd venture to say when looking at what they spun, you can create all sorts of bullsh*t.To start, the Broncos drafting Thomas in the first was stupid because he was already broke. Hell many thought he wouldn't go until later on and possibly the 4th due to that injury. He was hardly the reason the Broncos failed. See one Mr. McDaniels and place blame accordingly.Dallas trading up to #24 to get Bryant was worth it. He was billed as a top 10 talent that fell. They got great value for him at #24 and as mentioned, he had a good season until he got hurt. Injuries happen, but he didn't come that way. See the Dallas defense and lack of o-line play.Marshall, Moss, Chad, and TO ?? All malcontent little bitches who hurt teams because of their attitudes. However, can you really fault Marshall 83 catches and over 1000 yards receiving when Henne is the QB ?? That dude flat sucked last season.Boldin and Houshmandzadeh may have made bad plays in that game (yeah I loved it) but I think Boldin was a huge part of why they actually got that far. Everyone has a bad game and they just had poor timing with theirs.Bottomline, Green may not be the "IT" player that gets the Bengals to the promised land, but ask yourself this. Who else do you anticipate being there at #4 do you think will ?? Honestly, I don't think ANY player will fill that role, but Green would certainly fill a need that will become a huge issue in 2012. What guard are you taking that high ?? What safety ?? What QB ?? I simply think Green will present the best way to go if he is there at #4 unless Bowers is there. He is the guy I want most, but even then, he won't be the "IT" player that gets the Bengals to the promised land.I think that article is nothing more than spin.I'd argue that Dez Bryant was a better receiver a year ago than Green is this year and how did he help the Cowboys? And since he was picked at the bottom of the first rd, what does that say about the value of Green at #4? Dez had a good year but WRs just don't have much impact. If I'm picking a WR at #4 it's got to be a game breaker on special teams as well as in the offenseThis seems like the year we ended up with Peter Warrick. Like this year he was kind of "slotted" to us. Anyone hope Green works out for us like Warrick did? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjakq27 Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 With apologies to Pink Floyd, "How can you have any pudding if you don't eat your meat?" Taking a WR at #4 is just icing on the cake. This team needs to build a solid core by drafting for both lines before taking a wideout. To me, this team's fixation with these type of players is one reason they are inconsistent every year. Using Pittsburgh and Baltimore as an example should be the plan. Those teams are in the hunt every year. None of their receivers are spectacular but get the job done at times. Relying on safe passes to their TE's is also part of their success. It's boring FB but it works. People don't care your team is putting on an offensive show if you are still losing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted February 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 Bottomline, Green may not be the "IT" player that gets the Bengals to the promised land, but ask yourself this. Who else do you anticipate being there at #4 do you think will ?? Especially if J-Joe leaves, I think Peterson gets us closer than Green. In order to follow the "run the ball, play great defense" strategy everyone likes, we have to have that "great defense" part.If I had my way I would like to see Cincy's first three picks be some combination of DB, LB (Rey doesn't seem to be developing, Brandon Johnson is leaving to try and find a starting job and Dhani is on his last legs) and interior offensive lineman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmyBengal Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 Again, not saying Green HAS to be the #4 pick, but outside of Hoosier, no one can give a name. You want to build the o-line ?? Great, who do you take at #4 to do that ?? I don't see ANY o-lineman worthy of the #4 overall. Not one. The d-line ?? Sure, but I think that once you get past Bowers and Fairley, none of them are worth the #4 pick and wouldn't present great vaule there.To be honest, when it comes to the d-line, we have seen the organization sit back and be content with what they have. I still see them thinking that way with both the DT and DE spots. They will look at what Dunlap did and how Atkins came along and figure the don't look that bad with Johnson and Peko. They will also consider they still have guys like Geathers, Odom, Tank, and Sims and will simply leave it alone.Peterson will straight piss me off. Not because I don't think he's a very good player, but rather I don't like the thought of letting JJoe go when they could have tagged him and having a rookie put in the mix expecting the same. I understand the health issues involved with JJoe, but how much are they going to pay Peterson at #4 when they could have just kept a very solid corner ??So minus one of Bowers or Fairley dropping and there being no o-lineman worthy of the #4 spot, Green not only looks like the logical pick, he is almost a no brainer. Bryant dropping last year has zero to say about Green's value this draft. Bryant had his own issues that teams weren't pleased with that caused him to drop. As for expecting your #1 WR to play teams, it doesn't happen that often, so I think that can be taken off the table. Even Hester who isn't a true #1 stopped taking returns when put in that spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kazkal Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 Especially if J-Joe leaves, I think Peterson gets us closer than Green. In order to follow the "run the ball, play great defense" strategy everyone likes, we have to have that "great defense" part.How are we getting Closer by letting a very corner leave just to draft another one and pay him almost as much as joseph would have costed?To me it seems taking Peterson as a CB is staying right where your at not getting closer.Peterson will straight piss me off. Not because I don't think he's a very good player, but rather I don't like the thought of letting JJoe goAgreed You have a young talented player who is WILLING & WANTS to return to one of the worst franchises in the nfl...Yet they were willing to pay STACEY FREAKING ANDREWS top 5 tackle money.PS,unless he's called as a safety course then it's okay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derekshank Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 First, the article is silly. Everyone knows that a good QB is the most important position. The article just points outthat a WR can't do it alone. But there are just as many examples of WRs getting teams to the Superbowl.The past 4 years have featured at least one team that had very little rushing game, but a deep stable of WRs as the primary reason they made it there. No one has to convince me that you need to build from the inside out, not the other eat around. But the Bengals are already built that way (look no further than '09). Introducing a WR that would be a perfect compliment to a strong rushing game and a quick WC style passing attack is perfectly acceptable.Is he my first choice? Not sure yet. But there aren't a ton of options I'd be ecstatic with. No O-Linemen worth the top 5 pick. No QB I want in the 1st round. No game changing safety available (I do t see Peterson as a Safety). If I had to make a wish list right now, it would be 1) Fairley, 2) Green, 3) Dareus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derekshank Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 The d-line ?? Sure, but I think that once you get past Bowers and Fairley, none of them are worth the #4 pick and wouldn't present great vaule there.We'll see. There's still a lot of time for stock to rise and fall. I've seen some suggest that Quinn's stock will shoot up enough to warrant Carolina to take him at #1. and frankly, I'd prefer Dareus to Bowers.All that said, I agree that Green is a good option... but there are scenarios out there that have Fairley available at #4, and if they take Green over him, I'll be at least a little peeved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted February 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 How are we getting Closer by letting a very corner leave just to draft another one and pay him almost as much as joseph would have costed?Sometimes just staying in place is a step forward. To put it another way, how does it get us closer to have him leave and replace him with a WR?With a rookie pay scale coming, I doubt he costs as much as J-Joe would.You have a young talented player who is WILLING & WANTS to return to one of the worst franchises in the nfl...Yet they were willing to pay STACEY FREAKING ANDREWS top 5 tackle money.Hey, if it were up to me I would have franchised J-Joe and we wouldn't be having this conversation. But the Bengals didn't franchise Joseph, he is going to test the market and IMO the chances of him returning are zip, zero and none. And so a defense that already took a step back in 2010 slips even further. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted February 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 Might the Bengals pony up for JJoe at the last minute? ESPN suggests that it's possible.Bengals targeting March 4 to re-sign Cedric Benson and Jonathan Joseph. Benson says he deserves top-back $ and may be difficult to re-sign Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COB Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 Well, if that twitter was factual, good. If we only get one, I'd say let's sign Joseph and let Ced walk. I'm probably Ced's biggest backer on here, I think he's a great running back. But a ready-in-year-one running back will be a lot easier to find than a corner who's ready to play at a high level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairOnFire Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 A.J. Green?The Cold, Hard Football Facts say NO! Actually, the Cold Hard Football folks don't even mention AJ Green, and if they do so no to anything Bengal related, and they do, it's about saying no to Terrell Owens and Chad Ochocinco. And saying no to those guys is in fact an argument in favor of AJ Green. Furthermore, I do NOT fit the Cold Hard profile of a fan overly fascinated by flashy objects, including WR's. In fact, I annually make fun of the way this team drafts and churns wideouts. That said, this draft has fallen in such a way that Green makes sense at #4 simply because of his individual ranking and the value he'd bring....which is often reason enough to consider drafting a prospect. But Green also makes sense precisely because prospects like Newton, Fairley, and Miller are riskier, and less likely to be NFL ready soon. By comparison, Green could not only play immediately, but start immediately making it far easier to offer a cold hard no to Chad.....something I'm very interested in. Bottom Line: I'm not trying to sell anyone a car they don't want or need, but by the same token....I have to question the wisdom of anyone who doesn't have AJ Green on his short list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted February 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 Well, if that twitter was factual, good. If we only get one, I'd say let's sign Joseph and let Ced walk. I'm probably Ced's biggest backer on here, I think he's a great running back. But a ready-in-year-one running back will be a lot easier to find than a corner who's ready to play at a high level.In an update to the earlier story on the Bengals moving ahead as if Palmer is gone, Lewis confirms that the team is talking to both JJ and Ced in hopes of getting them under contract before the lockout. I'd rather have JJ than Ced but even one would be nice just so they could cross either RB or CB off the list for early picks in April. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volcom69 Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 Well now after listening to Marvin talk, it almost sounds like they might be looking at QB with the #4 pick. I dont like any QBs in this draft, so they better do there homework before they choose someone this year!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairOnFire Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 With apologies to Pink Floyd, "How can you have any pudding if you don't eat your meat?" Taking a WR at #4 is just icing on the cake. This team needs to build a solid core by drafting for both lines before taking a wideout. Shine on, you crazy diamond? There are currently plenty of scenarios based upon Bowers and Quinn being the first two players picked. Assuming that's true the Bengals might be looking at a choice of Peterson, Green, Newton, Miller, Darius, and Fairley. Of those only two are lineman and Darius, more solid than spectacular, is now said to be higher ranked than a slipping Fairley, now thought by many to be too raw to a Top 3 pick. So would you take Darius, who doesn't really offer the Bengals anything they don't already have, over the polished Green? Or would you ignore the safe pick of Green in favor of Fairley's raw potential? Or do you conveniently toss the "Gimme a Lineman" rant aside until a later round? Frankly, all of this icing and cake talk is based upon positions played, not the individual prospects themselves....which is almost pointless when debating within the Top 5. And there's the rub because once again the Bengals may find themselves in a position where they either selct the last remaining blue chip prospect OR if lucky find themselves choosing between two. But regardless of the choice made at no point should their options include selecting a non blue chipper due to the position played. Nor should they eliminate from consideration any blue chip prospect simply because that player doesn't play of position of pressing immediate need. Gimmee a blue chipper....even if it's a wideout. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmyBengal Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 If you are going to give me the choice, get JJoe signed and move on.Go look for your new RB in the draft and GET HIM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairOnFire Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 No one has to convince me that you need to build from the inside out, not the other eat around. But the Bengals are already built that way (look no further than '09). Introducing a WR that would be a perfect compliment to a strong rushing game and a quick WC style passing attack is perfectly acceptable. Exactly.Is he my first choice? Not sure yet. But there aren't a ton of options I'd be ecstatic with. No O-Linemen worth the top 5 pick. No QB I want in the 1st round. No game changing safety available (I dont see Peterson as a Safety). Agreed, agreed, agreed.If I had to make a wish list right now, it would be 1) Fairley, 2) Green, 3) Dareus. This is where we differ slightly as I'm not enamored with the crop of fatties in this draft and see very little difference in the quality of DT projected to go in the Top 5 as those expected to be available at the top of the 2nd round. By comparison, there's lots of depth at all of the defensive line positions, regardless of type, with the exception of elite pass rushing DE's like Bowers and Quinn. Of those two I like Bowers better because I think he's better all around, but Quinn is a better pure pass rusher. Regardless, I'd take either over Fairley and Darius. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted February 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 This is where we differ slightly as I'm not enamored with the crop of fatties in this draft Fairley weighed in at 298, or approximately 0.5 Andre Smiths. For a DT, that's positively svelte. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJJackson Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 I asked but did not get an answer from the Green-backersso I ask againIs Greendurable?mature?high motor?a willing and able blocker?(I know he can catch the ball)he needs to be all those things for me to consider him a good deal at number 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairOnFire Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 This is where we differ slightly as I'm not enamored with the crop of fatties in this draft Fairley weighed in at 298, or approximately 0.5 Andre Smiths. For a DT, that's positively svelte. Which is exactly my point as Fairley isn't really a true fatty. In fact, Warren Sapp was just heard saying how Fairley doesn't even play like a big boy. Rather, Sapp claimed he's a technically raw prospect whose current status is based soley upon outstanding movement skills for a player of his size....allowing him to fit into any scheme at multiple positions. But Sapp further claimed Fairley can't eat space, doesn't use his hands well or often, isn't instinctive, doesn't shed blocks if engaged, will be penalty prone in the NFL until he learns better technique, and might be better suited immediately as a 3-4 DE. As for Darius, I'll repeat my own claim that he's solid in all areas but he isn't much of a pass rusher and as a result he doesn't offer anything this team doesn't already have. Nor does he offer anything unique that couldn't be added by one of the dozen or so defensive lineman who have earned 1st round grades, a few of whom are expected to still be available at the top of the 2nd round. Yeah, I'd take Green over Fairley and Darius. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kazkal Posted February 26, 2011 Report Share Posted February 26, 2011 How are we getting Closer by letting a very corner leave just to draft another one and pay him almost as much as joseph would have costed?Sometimes just staying in place is a step forward. To put it another way, how does it get us closer to have him leave and replace him with a WR?With a rookie pay scale coming, I doubt he costs as much as J-Joe would.Yes But still probably alot of money just not a crazy amount,Plus who else are we going to spend it on? We will probably be losing 3 of our highest paid players so why not reward our 2 corners that were considered the best tandem in the nfl and a large put of our success in 2009 even without the help of a passrush.Hey, if it were up to me I would have franchised J-Joe and we wouldn't be having this conversation. But the Bengals didn't franchise Joseph, he is going to test the market and IMO the chances of him returning are zip, zero and none. And so a defense that already took a step back in 2010 slips even further.Agreed, though i'd Say there is slight chance on retaining joseph because of his injury history I just don't see him making top 5 money.. probably 5-8 area...I'm Still all for defense and even for peterson I just feel if you let Joseph walk you should have already had the answer on the team and we've gotten very good play out of all our CB's...just matter of them needing to stay healthy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kazkal Posted February 26, 2011 Report Share Posted February 26, 2011 Well, if that twitter was factual, good. If we only get one, I'd say let's sign Joseph and let Ced walk. I'm probably Ced's biggest backer on here, I think he's a great running back. But a ready-in-year-one running back will be a lot easier to find than a corner who's ready to play at a high level.In an update to the earlier story on the Bengals moving ahead as if Palmer is gone, Lewis confirms that the team is talking to both JJ and Ced in hopes of getting them under contract before the lockout. I'd rather have JJ than Ced but even one would be nice just so they could cross either RB or CB off the list for early picks in April.I love me some Cedben but Joseph should be priority,Makes me wonder if they are really considering a QB at 4# hence locking down joseph so its one less need...With that being said I hope resigning Joseph won't turn them off from also giving hall a new contract... With More then likely not paying Carson,Chad & geathersOr Odom They'll have money to spend on their own players so I think we could afford to keep both..PS,Glad they making a push before march 4th because i'm sure Joseph rather resign now rather then risk waiting for long lengthy holdout from the CBA issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sea Ray Posted February 26, 2011 Report Share Posted February 26, 2011 I think it is risky for players to opt for free agency as I see this salary cap going down not up from where it was in 2009 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted February 26, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2011 I think it is risky for players to opt for free agency as I see this salary cap going down not up from where it was in 2009Probably, however they are also talking about bringing up the salary floor much closer to the cap so the overall pool of money may not change much. As for the cap itself, unless they make significant changes to its mechanics, top revenue teams like DC will still be able skirt it at will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmyBengal Posted February 26, 2011 Report Share Posted February 26, 2011 I want to bring up another point Marvin made but don't really want to start a new thread.In the same interview Marvin took responsibility for last season's mess, there was a part where they asked him about Simpson. He stated they clearly should have had him in the active group of players and should have gotten him time taking snaps in games to develop things quicker, but then went on to say "Then you have to take balls away from others and you know how that works out". With that single statement not one of the analysts wasn't aware of what he was saying. Basically, Simpson had to wait because you had Chad and TO demanding the ball and they wouldn't have been happy if they weren't the ones getting thrown to. I think Marvin is really done with all of that crap. People can keep saying Chad and TO aren't to blame and I will readily admit they aren't the only ones to blame, but I think they should shoulder more than most.With that being the case, if they don't take Green in the first I actually think they SHOULD take a WR in the 2nd.Jonathan Baldwin and Leonard Hankerson both came out of a pro-style offense from Pittsburgh and Miami.I think if they had QB's worth a sh*t, they would both go in the 1st. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sea Ray Posted February 26, 2011 Report Share Posted February 26, 2011 I think it is risky for players to opt for free agency as I see this salary cap going down not up from where it was in 2009Probably, however they are also talking about bringing up the salary floor much closer to the cap so the overall pool of money may not change much. As for the cap itself, unless they make significant changes to its mechanics, top revenue teams like DC will still be able skirt it at will.Who's "they"? My guess is the players. This comes down to who you think is going to win this thing and I'm going to go out on a limb and say I think the owners will. This won't end in a compromise. I doubt the total pool of money will be unchanged. The owners didn't have to go through the hassle of opening this CBA up early. They want something Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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