Random 2023 Bengals stuff before FA and what not

[HoosierCat]

That’s really good COB but we need to make one important change here:

Quote

But our movie focuses on a group of disaffected loners.  They get stuffed in lockers or cyber bullied or whatever cruel shit kids do these days.  They sort of band together out of necessity.  So most of the movie is them getting kicked in the nuts, getting humiliated at lunch when some neanderthal dumps their lunch on some kid's head, all that standard movie stuff. 

OK, I get where you’re going here and we need to do a little of this, but what we really want to play up is that the disaffected loners can’t get laid, while all the cool kids are just screwing left and right. This lets us shove in a bunch of gratuitous sex and nudity. Your pitch is great but its woefully short on T&A!

[COB]

True but I’m going for a G rating so it can be an after school special, this thing is meant for like 3rd and 4th graders, I don’t want to mess up their heads by involving sex.

[ArmyBengal]

So, some of you might know my youngest has autism.  Unfortunately, there are real life implications with both the bullying and the converse, where some try to make his accomplishments be equivalent to that of a brain surgeon.  It really is sad to see how he's impacted by each opposing force.  We are constantly just trying to keep things on an even keel from one minute to the next.  Finding that happy medium where things are just chill is the ultimate goal.  I try to find humor wherever the opportunity presents itself.  All of this is an absolute truth.

That being said, when considering what COB wrote, I have only one suggestion.
JDAM's....

That's right, I said it, JDAMS bitches.  I introduced my youngest to JDAM video's on YouTube and he is awestruck at how massive the devastation is.
So might I suggest finding a way to work 2-3 2000lb JDAM's into the story?  Nothing big.  Maybe take out a few city blocks somewhere.
I mean, if you are going for gore, maybe drop them on a nursery school.  I'm just spitballing here....

[AMPHAR]

4 hours ago, COB said:

I wonder how many sacks we gave up in the first couple games these last two years?  JK, I see the wall of TWENTY THREE SACKS posts in here.  
 

What I don’t see is any evidence of cause and effect.  I also don’t see any evidence to support the use of either the word “soft”, or “camp”.  
 

There is no camp.  It’s over.  The league has evolved, moved on.  Yes, once upon a time players went and played themselves into shape.  Coaches overdid it because it made guys “tough.”  They also deprived them of water because that made them “tough” as well.  Shit’s over.  Guys are ready to practice now.  Practice just starts.  
 

Soft?  Where is the evidence that anything the Bengals do is “soft” compared to the rest of the league?  Where are the stats showing how many blows to the head our tackle took versus another team’s tackle?  There is no evidence.  
 

So the “soft” label comes from where?  It comes from media visitors, guys who show up for a day as they tour various NFL practices.  What is our team doing the day they show up?  Who knows, and it doesn’t matter, because the Bengals will always be labeled “soft.”  And “cheap.”  Reality doesn’t matter.  
 

Paul Brown created the west coast offense.  It was denigrated as somehow being soft.  He loved the forward pass.  That was denigrated as being soft.  We were at the forefront of the hurry up offense, that was criticized as being soft.  
 

All of those Bengals innovations were met with the idea that “real men line up and play smash mouth football, Paul Brown and the Bengals are too soft and are pussies for finding another way.”  Fuck that.  Paul Brown was just smarter.  Zac Taylor fits right in the Paul Brown mode.  As the game is evolving, he’s right there driving it.  
 

Go back to the toughen ‘em up camp days?  No thanks.  In fact one of the very last proponents of super physical pre-season practices, John Harbaugh, recently said he’s moving away from that philosophy.  It just isn’t necessary and comes with an unjustifiable cost.  

lol you wanna a Warren Commission to figure this out?     Either they adjust to correct pass protection issues coming out of camp or they fucking go on the road to earn their way to the Superbowl.   

Pretty fucking simple. 

 

[AMPHAR]

4 hours ago, membengal said:

The Ravens have been one of the most injured teams for years . I promise you the fans here in Baltimore area have been blaming the way Harbaugh practices them in the off-season and camp for that. 

 

Again, for however "SOFT" this year's camp was, they do not lose week 1 even with Burrow coming off of fucking ABDOMINAL SURGERY and being so rusty he threw four picks IF clark harris doesn't get hurt. Like, literally, they overcame all that and should have won. Then lost on a last second kick to one of the top defenses in football on the road the following week when Burrow was clearly still not close to 100%.

I know what I don't want. I don't want to get to week 1 of the regular season missing 5 starters due to injuries suffered in camp and pre-season games...

The Bengals lost week 1.  You can blame the long snapper.   But Burrow was also dropped for the 7th time driving under 2 minutes in OT to get another shot at a FG or maybe a TD since they got as deep at the Pitt 38.   Sacked for the 7th time and fumbled the ball back to the 50.  Forced punt. 

6 sacks a game is the rate they have the past 2 years.  Nearly 2 Ints a game.      

Stop with this bullshit that somehow if they increase reps and hitting then all of sudden they are down 5 starters week 1.    It is actually more realistic to suggest the Bengals will lose their starting QB in the first two games of the season given the amount of hits/pressure/sacks they have given up the past 2 years.

They need to address this issue because what they are doing isn't working well enough to earn the No. 1 seed which can be a big advantage.    

No one needs to move the goal posts.  We aren't talking about going to 2 a days and meat grinders.    But 6 sacks a game, 2 Ints a game given the talent level is a clear indication of not being prepared to start the season.   Those stats are so off the norm from the rest of the season.

 

 

 

 

[COB]

It’s not the coaching.  It’s the players.  We just don’t have very good o linemen.  There is plenty of evidence that our o linemen are just not good enough.  All year.  There is no evidence that repeated reps in pre season will transform our mid-level players into top level players.  It won’t.  
 

Not to pick on him, but as an example, I watched Jonah Williams all year and it was infuriating.  Dude got bull rushed right into the pocket repeatedly.  Good pass rushing ends beat him all season.  If putting him through Bear Bryant tough guy camp would make him better, I’d be all for it.  It won’t.  He’ll be fully healthy this fall so if he still has his job we’ll find out how much difference that made.  I know no one here is saying all Jonah needs is to play in pre season games and he’ll suddenly be all pro.  But man, seeing him at the end of the year when the tank was empty was not a pretty sight.  Throw 2 or 3 more games on him and forget it.  

[ShulaSteakhouse]

3 hours ago, COB said:

It’s not the coaching.  It’s the players.  We just don’t have very good o linemen.  There is plenty of evidence that our o linemen are just not good enough.  All year.  There is no evidence that repeated reps in pre season will transform our mid-level players into top level players.  It won’t.  
 

Not to pick on him, but as an example, I watched Jonah Williams all year and it was infuriating.  Dude got bull rushed right into the pocket repeatedly.  Good pass rushing ends beat him all season.  If putting him through Bear Bryant tough guy camp would make him better, I’d be all for it.  It won’t.  He’ll be fully healthy this fall so if he still has his job we’ll find out how much difference that made.  I know no one here is saying all Jonah needs is to play in pre season games and he’ll suddenly be all pro.  But man, seeing him at the end of the year when the tank was empty was not a pretty sight.  Throw 2 or 3 more games on him and forget it.  

My argument in regards to the coaching is that none of their draft picks have panned-out or improved much here in a long, long time, they fail constantly with first round o-line picks, and their mid-round picks, and I can't think of a single one that is worth a damn across the board they've drafted since maybe Eric Steinbach, which is insane.

Players change, coaching more or less stays the same (Pollack revolving door aside) as do the scouts. 

Of course they need better players,  but they have to do whatever is necessary to draft and develop lineman properly at some point also.

[AMPHAR]

5 hours ago, COB said:

It’s not the coaching.  It’s the players.  We just don’t have very good o linemen.  There is plenty of evidence that our o linemen are just not good enough.  All year.  There is no evidence that repeated reps in pre season will transform our mid-level players into top level players.  It won’t.  
 

Not to pick on him, but as an example, I watched Jonah Williams all year and it was infuriating.  Dude got bull rushed right into the pocket repeatedly.  Good pass rushing ends beat him all season.  If putting him through Bear Bryant tough guy camp would make him better, I’d be all for it.  It won’t.  He’ll be fully healthy this fall so if he still has his job we’ll find out how much difference that made.  I know no one here is saying all Jonah needs is to play in pre season games and he’ll suddenly be all pro.  But man, seeing him at the end of the year when the tank was empty was not a pretty sight.  Throw 2 or 3 more games on him and forget it.  

 

The approach in training camp is certainly an issue.  They have given up 23 sacks in Weeks 1 and 2 the last two seasons.   As they get reps the rate goes down until they suffer turnover on the right side of the line, 

I'm sorry but there have been many smart asses on this board criticize Paul Alexander/Bodine/big tits/ogblahhhh  and those lines never came close to allowing 6 sacks a game over a period of 4 games.      They have better talent post Turner.   They have opened  the season like crap.   Its coaching.

Nobody in that locker room accepted and nobody with an ounce of football knowledge would accept it. 

If the Buffalo Bills or KC Chiefs appear on that schedule in September then they better be ready.    This is the window.  Any failures need to be assessed and dealt with not excused.

 

 

 

[AMPHAR]

2 hours ago, ShulaSteakhouse said:

My argument in regards to the coaching is that none of their draft picks have panned-out or improved much here in a long, long time, they fail constantly with first round o-line picks, and their mid-round picks, and I can't think of a single one that is worth a damn across the board they've drafted since maybe Eric Steinbach, which is insane.

Players change, coaching more or less stays the same (Pollack revolving door aside) as do the scouts. 

Of course they need better players,  but they have to do whatever is necessary to draft and develop lineman properly at some point also.

In both seasons line got better with reps.    Talent is an issue but there really isn't a "talent" excuse giving up 6 sacks a game that is incompetence.      Keep in mind the target should be AFC Championship.

If you want them to continue to slug their way to AFC North title in the last week. Earning 3/4 seeds with 1 home game and 2 on the road, by all means keep doing what they are doing in TC and pray Burrow doesn't get knocked out week 1 or 2.

History suggest 3 loses or less gets the No. 1 seed.  That dictates you are ready to answer the bell week 1 and 2.

They are 1-3.  All  3 point margins.  2 OTs games.   23 sacks given up.  7 ints thrown.

Is it the talent?   Or is it the talent not ready to go?    IMO, its the latter.

 

 

[AMPHAR]

The trophy the Chiefs were dancing around with in KC was Cincinnati's.     The Bengals were the best team in the AFC.

They had to play on the road because Tee Higgins killed a player (on the field thank god he's alright) AND they went 0-2 to start the season.

Why on this board; is there so much push back on the way they conduct training camp?  23 sacks?    They can't not start the season like they have the past two seasons.  You can't be 0-2.  The window is the window.   

KC/Buffalo  is going to be there in September and we can't have this "summer of love" going on.   Otherwise its playing til week 18 to earn a home game, 1 game at home, two on the road.

 

 

[Stripes]

Sample size of four games. Gonna be difficult to get me to treat that as a pervasive issue.

The 2021 offensive line had bad players. They allowed early sacks.

The 2022 offensive line had better players with no experience together. They allowed early sacks.

That’s about it for me. No need to dig deeper.

[ArmyBengal]

While I have always hated the sacks, there are many reasons for that happening that any typical fan simply cannot pinpoint.
Hell, even Burrow doesn't care about sacks because he is fully understanding of that point.

Even if we were to consider the feasibility of a "soft camp" (COUGH injuries COUGH) there's simply no correlation to sacks given up.
If there is, I would like to hear more in all seriousness.  I think the philosophy of hard nosed camps is an old line of thought. 
Between the players union and league wanting to limit contact and increase safety, it's a miracle they are in sync by week 3.
Not to mention they are now only playing 3 preseason games.

[HoosierCat]

Jonah had surgery to fix the kneecap, Ossai went under the knife to fix a torn labrum. Jonah expected back for camp, no timetable for Ossai.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10065994-report-bengals-joseph-ossai-jonah-williams-undergo-surgeries-to-repair-injuries

[TJJackson]

I dont know what resulted in the team's apparent extreme lack of preparedness for those first two games

and no, it wasnt all the appendectomy or the injury to Nuge.  No no.  Other players who werent injured and hadnt just had an appendectomy were performing well below par

all I want is that it not occur again. 

Treat each game as if it is the one that makes the difference in deeding in the playoffs, because they damn well so

[membengal]

FYI

 

[COB]

Jonah basically says if I’m getting beaten, I’m getting beaten badly.  

[membengal]

That, or...it's just random bad luck. Like BABIP in mlb. 

[COB]

Or our QB likes to hang onto the ball longer than most. 

[COB]

Also, Vance Joseph hired as the Broncos DC, and I don’t pay close attention but it seems like he gets hired as someone’s DC like every year.

[HoosierCat]

Nice little read from Doc today, who reminds us that boring offseasons are a good thing.

https://themorningline.substack.com/p/stable-set-bengals-are-boring-in

[ArmyBengal]

I disagree though in that there isn't much about the offseason I DON'T like.
I like when free agency hits, the combine, the draft, when camps get started, all of it.
It's enjoyable (Albeit, more so lately) and the discussions surrounding it are a good time for me.
I watch a ton of college football and am aware of many of the players and I find it fun to see where they end up.

To each their own though.

[AMPHAR]

The better they draft the more important Summer extensions and compensatory picks become.  Which isn't exciting in March.

Free Agency is now a 1-3 day bonanza of media activity then it settles.    I like when the Bengals have something teed up the first day.

What I would hope is they are able to do is either get some extensions that push out past 2024 for some of the current FAs or find replacements that are former top 150 draft picks and have terms past 2024.    

 

 

[HoosierCat]

Tobin: Bengals not trading Higgins.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/35755082/bengals-tee-higgins-trade-rumors-find-your-own-wr

Also in the above link:

Quote

Tobin said the team has a rough estimate as to how much Burrow's potential contract extension might cost as the team prepares to enter free agency, which starts the week of March 12.

However, the team does not have a set deadline as to when the contract would be completed as the franchise quarterback enters his fourth year in the NFL.

Translation: they’re still a ways apart.

[ArmyBengal]

Why the hell anyone would think the Bengals would trade Higgins is beyond me.
He's vital to this offense, isn't a free agent until 2024 and the Bengals could (see will) tag him if no deal can be had.
He's a #1 WR on many teams in the league.

[HoosierCat]

The conversation around potentially dealing Higgins was all about whether you think they can or will do monster deals for him, Chase and Burrow at more or less the same time. If the answer was no then it made sense to deal Tee and get some value as opposed to letting him walk. If the answer is now yes, then the argument is moot and we can all get on with our lives.