Carson Palmer Thread

[ArmyBengal]

There are QB's out there that would be fine stop gaps if they choose to wait a year or two to grab a QB.

I just don't see the fanbase embracing that kind of wait.

I don't see the players embracing it either. If they "wait a year or two to grab a QB" they must also wait another year or two after that for him to develop, so that's basically 4 years. Do you think any decent Bengal who's contract will come up in that time will want to re-sign with a rebuilding team? Bye-bye JJoe, Leon Hall, Rivers, Maualuga will be up before then, Whitworth, damn near anybody decent (and i'm not including guys who will be out the door before next season or after it, like Benson, Ocho, TO, Odom, Geathers, Bobbie Williams, etc). You can also kiss goodbye to any potential free-agent acquisitions (good ones anyways) as they won't come to this trainwreck of a franchise, especially when they are in rebuilding mode.

They need to make Carson happy, that's the only way this team wins before 2020.

Retool, don't rebuild!

Good points as well. I just think there is a way through this either way the decision goes. I think I could make good and bad points for both and find a way to ultimately like said decision. However, without a true GM (I know I know) coming to the "best" decision isn't as likely, but rather lucking into it.

I don't see it as a 50/50 chance of getting it right either. There is so much more that could come out of this, but I have a feeling Carson stays, Chad comes back, they don't trade out of the #4 spot, and the new OC fares no better with the disgruntled and headcase players we currently have.

I'm still hoping though.

[jjakq27]

There are QB's out there that would be fine stop gaps if they choose to wait a year or two to grab a QB.

I just don't see the fanbase embracing that kind of wait.

I don't see the players embracing it either. If they "wait a year or two to grab a QB" they must also wait another year or two after that for him to develop, so that's basically 4 years. Do you think any decent Bengal who's contract will come up in that time will want to re-sign with a rebuilding team? Bye-bye JJoe, Leon Hall, Rivers, Maualuga will be up before then, Whitworth, damn near anybody decent (and i'm not including guys who will be out the door before next season or after it, like Benson, Ocho, TO, Odom, Geathers, Bobbie Williams, etc). You can also kiss goodbye to any potential free-agent acquisitions (good ones anyways) as they won't come to this trainwreck of a franchise, especially when they are in rebuilding mode.

They need to make Carson happy, that's the only way this team wins before 2020.

Retool, don't rebuild!

Good points as well. I just think there is a way through this either way the decision goes. I think I could make good and bad points for both and find a way to ultimately like said decision. However, without a true GM (I know I know) coming to the "best" decision isn't as likely, but rather lucking into it.

I don't see it as a 50/50 chance of getting it right either. There is so much more that could come out of this, but I have a feeling Carson stays, Chad comes back, they don't trade out of the #4 spot, and the new OC fares no better with the disgruntled and headcase players we currently have.

I'm still hoping though.

I will give you one team that gives me some glimmer of hope and that's the Altanta Falcons. Three seasons ago that team was a train wreck following the departure of Michael Vick and Bobby Petrino. They hired Mike Smith and drafted Matt Ryan and had the best record in the NFC this year. It can be done but we'll have to do a lot of things right this time.

[volcom69]

My hope is the Bengals make the right choice for the team, and realize you cant win this game with 1 player. You cant win when players dont want to play for this team so why keep them around. I understand if Carson leaves it leaves a huge question mark, but you cant force him to play, and be happy and win for this team. So i just hope they do the right thing whatever that maybe.

[HoosierCat]

So someone asks reedy via twitter tonight:

@joereedy your opinion: is Carson negotiating for change with his "trade me or I retire" stance, or is he just done with Cincy?

Reedy responds:

@mlxfl I think he's done and that there's more to it than what can be said at the present time

No idea what reedy is hinting at but there it is anyhow.

[jjakq27]

So someone asks reedy via twitter tonight:

@joereedy your opinion: is Carson negotiating for change with his "trade me or I retire" stance, or is he just done with Cincy?

Reedy responds:

@mlxfl I think he's done and that there's more to it than what can be said at the present time

No idea what reedy is hinting at but there it is anyhow.

I have a couple of ideas. One is he is getting pressure from Mrs. Palmer to move away from all of the things about Cincinnati that people don't like (the cold, conservative midwesterners, slow pace, etc) and get closer to both of their families in California. I don't think this is a media marketing ploy because he has mostly shied away from doing a lot of commercials. My second theory is that he is tired of the loose, seemingly inconsistent way Marvin runs the team. And lastly he is tired of the way Mike runs the business and sees no future or success here in the short term.

[volcom69]

I think its over with Palmer, sometimes you have to do things you dont want to do and its time to move on. Carson dosnt want to be here so why force him.

If i were the bengals i would trade him to the highest bidder, and get whatever draft picks you can. I would trade for Kevin Kolb! Kolb wants to be a starter somewhere, and i think he has enough talent, and the want to be a great QB. I live near Phila so i always here news about Kolb, he is a team player, but wants his shot in the league, Under the right coaching he will be good, remember he was the starter till he got hurt. He is young, and he is more mobile then Carson so he can move out of the pocket.

Anyway we look at it, the bengals will have to do something at the QB postion, and there is no one in this draft that is worth taking high. Otherwise they need to go get a vet for a couple of years.

Remember they have LeFevour on this team, and really he is no different then any of these other QBs in the draft this year, so not sure you want to waste a pick on one with all these other holes on this team.

[BengalszoneBilly]

So someone asks reedy via twitter tonight:

@joereedy your opinion: is Carson negotiating for change with his "trade me or I retire" stance, or is he just done with Cincy?

Reedy responds:

@mlxfl I think he's done and that there's more to it than what can be said at the present time

No idea what reedy is hinting at but there it is anyhow.

I have a couple of ideas. One is he is getting pressure from Mrs. Palmer to move away from all of the things about Cincinnati that people don't like (the cold, conservative midwesterners, slow pace, etc) and get closer to both of their families in California. I don't think this is a media marketing ploy because he has mostly shied away from doing a lot of commercials. My second theory is that he is tired of the loose, seemingly inconsistent way Marvin runs the team. And lastly he is tired of the way Mike runs the business and sees no future or success here in the short term.

When a wife wants to be happy, and you don't give her what she needs to achieve said happiness, you'll never achieve it either.

This is just where I see Carson at.

[COB]

When a wife wants to be happy, and you don't give her what she needs to achieve said happiness, you'll never achieve it either.

This is just where I see Carson at.

Agreed. She may have decided that she wants to be closer to family. I don't know how old their kids are, but everyone on here who has a wife and kids, think about how much the wife likes being near her family. It is a major factor. She might have given him an ultimatum.

[jjakq27]

When a wife wants to be happy, and you don't give her what she needs to achieve said happiness, you'll never achieve it either.

This is just where I see Carson at.

Agreed. She may have decided that she wants to be closer to family. I don't know how old their kids are, but everyone on here who has a wife and kids, think about how much the wife likes being near her family. It is a major factor. She might have given him an ultimatum.

I think he has a set of twins that are a couple of years old and he and his wife were expecting at any moment when they broke the trade request news last weekend.

[HoosierCat]

I have a couple of ideas. One is he is getting pressure from Mrs. Palmer to move away from all of the things about Cincinnati that people don't like (the cold, conservative midwesterners, slow pace, etc) and get closer to both of their families in California. I don't think this is a media marketing ploy because he has mostly shied away from doing a lot of commercials. My second theory is that he is tired of the loose, seemingly inconsistent way Marvin runs the team. And lastly he is tired of the way Mike runs the business and sees no future or success here in the short term.

All of that could be true, but all of that has also been bandied about and speculated on every since word Palmer asked for a trade broke. And maybe that is what Reedy means. But I took his comments as meaning that there's more to this that hasn't come out yet. That certainly wouldn't surprise me but I have no idea what it might be.

[kingwilly]

I think its over with Palmer, sometimes you have to do things you dont want to do and its time to move on. Carson dosnt want to be here so why force him.

If i were the bengals i would trade him to the highest bidder, and get whatever draft picks you can. I would trade for Kevin Kolb! Kolb wants to be a starter somewhere, and i think he has enough talent, and the want to be a great QB. I live near Phila so i always here news about Kolb, he is a team player, but wants his shot in the league, Under the right coaching he will be good, remember he was the starter till he got hurt. He is young, and he is more mobile then Carson so he can move out of the pocket.

Anyway we look at it, the bengals will have to do something at the QB postion, and there is no one in this draft that is worth taking high. Otherwise they need to go get a vet for a couple of years.

Remember they have LeFevour on this team, and really he is no different then any of these other QBs in the draft this year, so not sure you want to waste a pick on one with all these other holes on this team.

If I'm the Bengals, I HAVE to move forward under the presumption that Palmer will hang up his helmet and cleats.

Next. I would evaluate the top QB's. I disagree about Lefevoure being the same as the top QB's in the draft, as Cam Newton stand out as possessing skills far past Lefevoure. I agree that Lefevoure very well *could* run a very effective offense for this team. I would not be upset if they went forward with him at QB. Though, you HAVE to consider Cam. I think he is a hybrid between Vince Young and Aaron Rogers. I think unless Carolina or Buffalo fall in love with him, he will be there at 4. If so, he will be very hard to pass up. Really hard.

For all the things in flux, with a new offense, possibly more staff changes, Palmer checking out, now would be the best time to go get Newton and rejig the whole place.

[membengal]

Palmer's problem is not much leverage. Bengals just went 4-12 with him. I could see mikey thinking we can go 4-12 w/out him just as easily as w/ him, and wish him well in his retirement.

[Kazkal]

When a wife wants to be happy, and you don't give her what she needs to achieve said happiness, you'll never achieve it either.

This is just where I see Carson at.

Agreed. She may have decided that she wants to be closer to family. I don't know how old their kids are, but everyone on here who has a wife and kids, think about how much the wife likes being near her family. It is a major factor. She might have given him an ultimatum.

Pretty sure the kids are under five,Which them also makes sense wanting to get close to home/family because of schooling.

Palmer's problem is not much leverage. Bengals just went 4-12 with him. I could see mikey thinking we can go 4-12 w/out him just as easily as w/ him, and wish him well in his retirement.

Hence the problem with Mike Brown he'd let him retire vs atleast getting something of value for him...The Guy has 30million+ In the bank Lives a quiet life style and has 3 kids.

People say he'd be crazy for walking away from 50million dollars in three years but I don't doubt he feels he doesn't need anymore money.

[membengal]

Don't doubt that's true. But also pretty sure I can guess at mikey's thoughts.

[Kazkal]

Hmmm Gonna make sure to follow Jon Gruden during the draft process to get his take on the QB's just saying :>

[HairOnFire]

I have a couple of ideas. One is he is getting pressure from Mrs. Palmer to move away from all of the things about Cincinnati that people don't like (the cold, conservative midwesterners, slow pace, etc) and get closer to both of their families in California.

To assume Palmer's threat is prompted by his wife or the weather seems like a a bit of a leap to me. In fact, I'd ignore everything related to Palmer's personal life with one exception. That being, Palmer has suddenly become an object of ridicule for members of the press and an increasingly loud portion of this teams fanbase and no player, Palmer included, looks forward to a long campaign of attempting to win back lost respect and credibility. Not when it's so easy to move somewhere else and instantly be looked upon as a potential franchise savior. For example, put Palmer in a 49er's uniform next season and the positive headlines will practically write themselves. But keep him in Bengal stripes and, deserved or not, he's looking at a future that portrays him as a major part of the problem here. An uphill slog.

My second theory is that he is tired of the loose, seemingly inconsistent way Marvin runs the team. And lastly he is tired of the way Mike runs the business and sees no future or success here in the short term.

Mostly this....and only because you included Marvin. I'm guessing Palmer's feelings about most of the people associated with the Bengals is mixed, from those who sign his checks to Marvin to Chad, but I remember writing during the season about actually seeing Marvin Lewis lose Carson Palmer right before our very eyes. Specifically, when Palmer refused to even look Lewis in the eye after the timeout fiasco.

Yeah, I know...it was only one moment and I shouldn't read too much into it. But I'm going to do just that because IMHO in that moment you could see Palmer's frustration level was finally so great that it broke through the facade he's built up since his USC days. And there's the rub because Palmer's frustration was directed at Lewis, right? There are problems there.

Firing Bratkowski is a move in the right direction simply because it shows someone is going to be held accountable for last seasons horrific showing. That said, last seasons failure falls squarely at the feet of a head coach who is coming back and it's hardly suprising to think Palmer wants to see proof that Lewis won't lose control of the coming season in exactly the same ways he lost control of the last one.

Bottom Line: Lewis will need to do much more than simply firing Brat to earn back Palmer's trust.

[Kazkal]

Bottom Line: Lewis will need to do much more than simply firing Brat to earn back Palmer's trust.

Wonder if Drafting AJ Green would help >

[jjakq27]

I have a couple of ideas. One is he is getting pressure from Mrs. Palmer to move away from all of the things about Cincinnati that people don't like (the cold, conservative midwesterners, slow pace, etc) and get closer to both of their families in California.

To assume Palmer's threat is prompted by his wife or the weather seems like a a bit of a leap to me. In fact, I'd ignore everything related to Palmer's personal life with one exception. That being, Palmer has suddenly become an object of ridicule for members of the press and an increasingly loud portion of this teams fanbase and no player, Palmer included, looks forward to a long campaign of attempting to win back lost respect and credibility. Not when it's so easy to move somewhere else and instantly be looked upon as a potential franchise savior. For example, put Palmer in a 49er's uniform next season and the positive headlines will practically write themselves. But keep him in Bengal stripes and, deserved or not, he's looking at a future that portrays him as a major part of the problem here. An uphill slog.

It could be a minimal issue but I'm just throwing it out there. I know a few non-native residents that despise the closeminded, slow-to-change, diversity-phobic, hyper-critical, conservative mindset that pervades this city. I don't know Mrs. Palmer, but couple the recent criticism of her husband with the desire for more comfortable climes and I could see her pushing to get out of town. Hopefully she realizes that this is big business and it's not that easy for the team to just let him walk if this is the case.

My second theory is that he is tired of the loose, seemingly inconsistent way Marvin runs the team. And lastly he is tired of the way Mike runs the business and sees no future or success here in the short term.

Mostly this....and only because you included Marvin. I'm guessing Palmer's feelings about most of the people associated with the Bengals is mixed, from those who sign his checks to Marvin to Chad, but I remember writing during the season about actually seeing Marvin Lewis lose Carson Palmer right before our very eyes. Specifically, when Palmer refused to even look Lewis in the eye after the timeout fiasco.

Yeah, I know...it was only one moment and I shouldn't read too much into it. But I'm going to do just that because IMHO in that moment you could see Palmer's frustration level was finally so great that it broke through the facade he's built up since his USC days. And there's the rub because Palmer's frustration was directed at Lewis, right? There are problems there.

Firing Bratkowski is a move in the right direction simply because it shows someone is going to be held accountable for last seasons horrific showing. That said, last seasons failure falls squarely at the feet of a head coach who is coming back and it's hardly suprising to think Palmer wants to see proof that Lewis won't lose control of the coming season in exactly the same ways he lost control of the last one.

Bottom Line: Lewis will need to do much more than simply firing Brat to earn back Palmer's trust.

My sneaking suspicion is that Carson has grown weary of Marvin. Your example is one that I had forgotten about but it was a very telling moment. Then there was the "we call the timeouts, so Carson isn't burdened" comment and I could see him getting pissed. Whether it's game management, player management , just boredom or lost respect you might have nailed it. I think that if Reedy or whomever spilled the beans on what's really going on it would not be pretty or beneficial to anyone. I will give Carson credit in that he has always taken the high road and has almost repressed any negative feelings that he has which could actually be hurting him.

[Stripes]

Stop pretending Carson is a living, breathing human being with basic needs like the rest of us. He is a blob of flesh under a Bengals jersey and he throws footballs.

[redsbengalsbucks]

I think its over with Palmer, sometimes you have to do things you dont want to do and its time to move on. Carson dosnt want to be here so why force him.

If i were the bengals i would trade him to the highest bidder, and get whatever draft picks you can. I would trade for Kevin Kolb! Kolb wants to be a starter somewhere, and i think he has enough talent, and the want to be a great QB. I live near Phila so i always here news about Kolb, he is a team player, but wants his shot in the league, Under the right coaching he will be good, remember he was the starter till he got hurt. He is young, and he is more mobile then Carson so he can move out of the pocket.

Anyway we look at it, the bengals will have to do something at the QB postion, and there is no one in this draft that is worth taking high. Otherwise they need to go get a vet for a couple of years.

Remember they have LeFevour on this team, and really he is no different then any of these other QBs in the draft this year, so not sure you want to waste a pick on one with all these other holes on this team.

If I'm the Bengals, I HAVE to move forward under the presumption that Palmer will hang up his helmet and cleats.

Next. I would evaluate the top QB's. I disagree about Lefevoure being the same as the top QB's in the draft, as Cam Newton stand out as possessing skills far past Lefevoure. I agree that Lefevoure very well *could* run a very effective offense for this team. I would not be upset if they went forward with him at QB. Though, you HAVE to consider Cam. I think he is a hybrid between Vince Young and Aaron Rogers. I think unless Carolina or Buffalo fall in love with him, he will be there at 4. If so, he will be very hard to pass up. Really hard.

For all the things in flux, with a new offense, possibly more staff changes, Palmer checking out, now would be the best time to go get Newton and rejig the whole place.

I disagree, I like LeFevoures' chances to become a good NFL QB better than Newtons. He has a better arm and more than 1 year of work at the college level, plus a year of experience in the NFL as a backup. I'd rather they spend the draft making the O-line better and giving LeFevoure a chance than wasting a pick on a high risk/high reward type QB.

[derekshank]

If they were going to reach for a QB, it wouldn't be Newton. Mike Brown wouldn't want the risk of Akili Smith reincarnated.

Gabbert would be the guy. He's accurate, a generally good decision maker, and spreads the ball around with safe low risk passes. Sounds like a guy that would likely be reasonably successful as a rookie in the West Coast (ala Colt McCoy)

That said... Quit dreaming about QBs. Palmer is the Bengals QB. He isn't stubborn, and Gruden will be able to talk him into one more season at the very least.

[Wraith]

God Help Us if we draft Cam Newton with the fourth overall pick! He is a one year wonder and while he might be a combination of Ben Roethlisberger and Donovan McNabb but it is much more likely that he will be a combination of JaMarcus Russell and Akili Smith....hopefully the Akili Smith experiment broke us of the one great year in college = a great NFL QB habit.

[cincy9275]

i hope to hell we do not draft newton. i have seen nothing from him to even think he can play qb in the nfl. the one read then run offense he played in is a joke. no way did auburn do anything to prepare newton for the nfl. newton would only set this team back for another 3-4 years while they waist time finding out newton is not a nfl qb.

[ArmyBengal]

Again, I'm not advocating the selection of Newton, only wondering what direction the new OC would want to go in should Carson in fact be traded or retired. I actually loved getting LeFevour, as I wanted the Bengals to draft him late last draft. That being said, I don't think they will look at him as the solution this coming season. Again, only thinking what may happen with the draft should other things occur.

Sure it's speculation, but what else are we to do at this point, but wait ??

For what it's worth, I'm still firmly in the camp that thinks Carson returns.

I'm just not at a point that it should be demissed as fact though.

[walzav29]

I don't think Marvin wants to rebuild with a 2 year deal. This offense makes sense, and should have been used all along. Doesn't this make sense?

"Those that remember Ken Anderson and Boomer Esiason remember the quick, ryhthm throws out of three- and five-step drops with the emphasis on accuracy, timing and yards after catch. That's designed to keep the quarterback healthy"

As for the drafting of a college QB. None of the guys that are coming out are worthy of the 4th pick. Considering the new offense. I think A. Dalton out of TCU would be a great fit in the 3rd round. Andrew Luck looked SO MUCH better than the other guys.