Bengals Draft

[COB]

Some dude on the twitter information thing thought it would be funny to rehash some old bengals draft history. I hereby damn his eternal soul to hell for doing so, and you'll thank me after you read the following:

Offer the Bengals rejected while drafting Akili Smith in 1999: ALL 6 Saints draft picks PLUS 2000, 2001 first-rounders & 2002 second-rounder

[ArmyBengal]

That still baffles me and will continue to do so until the day I die.

F*cking Akili Smith. Unreal.

[HoosierCat]

I've never heard about any picks beyond the 99 draft so I'd like to see more evidence of that. Still, even just considering the picks in 99 it was insane to turn the deal down.

That said, for everyone who believes the Bengals can just dump Andy and pick up a good QB in the draft, it's a cautionary tale. Even average QBs don't grow on trees.

[Wraith]

I understand the final offer was all 6 of the Saints picks 2000 and 2001 1st rounders 2002 2 second rounders AND Alex Molden. The Saints gave Washington all 6 Draft selections 2000 and 2001 1st rounders and they offered the Bengals a much better deal because everyone was sure the Colts were going to Draft Williams at 4 instead of James.

[COB]

I've never heard about any picks beyond the 99 draft so I'd like to see more evidence of that. Still, even just considering the picks in 99 it was insane to turn the deal down.

That said, for everyone who believes the Bengals can just dump Andy and pick up a good QB in the draft, it's a cautionary tale. Even average QBs don't grow on trees.

Ditka couldn't believe anyone could turn it down.
/>http://bengals.enquirer.com/1999/04/18/ben_bengals_turn_down.html

[TJJackson]

I've never heard about any picks beyond the 99 draft so I'd like to see more evidence of that. Still, even just considering the picks in 99 it was insane to turn the deal down.

That said, for everyone who believes the Bengals can just dump Andy and pick up a good QB in the draft, it's a cautionary tale. Even average QBs don't grow on trees.

But is an indication as well of just ow much value the Bengals assign to having a quality qb

The fact that Akili didn't pan out is sorta kinda irrelevant - what is relevant is how much the Bengals (or more specifically: Son of a Genius) gave up in opportunity cost to draft the player they (or more specifically: SoaG) thought (very wrongly) would be that quality qb

Applied to the present - it is not at all unlikely that if one of the 4 top QBs drops to or near 24, the Bengals snag him, especially if the contract talks for Andy are more contentious behind the scenes than we are led to believe

[HoosierCat]

I've never heard about any picks beyond the 99 draft so I'd like to see more evidence of that. Still, even just considering the picks in 99 it was insane to turn the deal down.

That said, for everyone who believes the Bengals can just dump Andy and pick up a good QB in the draft, it's a cautionary tale. Even average QBs don't grow on trees.

Ditka couldn't believe anyone could turn it down.
/>http://bengals.enquirer.com/1999/04/18/ben_bengals_turn_down.html

Fair enough. I'm an old so memory doesn't serve as well as it used to. Fortunately, the sting is greatly eased by the knowledge that the Bengals just would have f**ked the additional picks up just like they did with their own in the ensuing years. The 2000-2002 drafts were some of the worst in team history, including such awesome sauce as Peter Warrick, Ron Dugans, Travis Dorsch, Lamont Thompson, Sean "two packs a day" Brewer, Mark Roman, Curtis Keaton, Robert Bean and Neil Rackers. And the few decent selections they made -- Justin Smith, Chad, TJ and Levi Jones -- all either never reached their potential or imploded due to character or injury.

All records of that era in team history should be burned. They ought to have just pulled a Cleveland and suspended operations for three years. Would have been less painful.

[ArmyBengal]

Then you can flip that coin and say that other teams are probably aware that the Bengals have a QB that is going into his last season and that talks haven't gone well to this point. They could make the assumption (as some have done here) that they will take a QB at #24, which if a team is truly that needy or wanting to make a move would think to jump above the Bengals.

I would prefer that not be the case. I would prefer teams think we are stable at the position and if one of those "top" QB's fall to #24, they call the Bengals to make a trade. I still don't like the thought of any of these QB's in the first round. I would certainly understand if they pulled the trigger, but it's not the optimal situation from "my" perspective.

On a side note, I mocked the QB from Pitt (Tom Savage) to the Bengals in the 6th round and he has been said to be a fast riser in the recent weeks.

I have seen mocks that now have him going in the 3rd and 4th round. Whether is happens or not is another story, but dang.

[COB]

I had forgotten about the extra picks as well, if I ever even knew about it. Appears the trade offer was made on draft day. Mike doesn't strike me as a quick decision maker. He's more deliberate, needs time to mull everything over. He's specifically made to not take advantage of a quick offer like that.

Whatever they're doing now, it's working. Still, I look at this draft, their positioning, their needs, and I see no way the Bengals can duplicate the success they've had in recent drafts. Maybe it's a testament to their present roster, but I just can't see the impact players coming to Cinci this year. I hope I'm wrong.

[Kazkal]

Being a Buckeyes fan and if I had to take either Shazier or Roby, I would take Shazier.

There are still so many different ways they could go in the first round it's crazy.

Those that say it "HAS" to be one position or another (CB, DE) might be in for a shock.

Someone always falls that you didn't think would be there. ALWAYS.

Being not a buckeye fan, can you explain Shazier to me a bit? Is there a particular game I should watch? Seems like a lightweight Caleb Miller-type. In my limited viewing, he seems to get pushed around quite a bit. Bad if that's happening at the college level...

Lightweight Caleb Miller ?? That's a tough comparison right there and not one I could find my way to agreeing with, but one sees what one sees.

That being said, Shazier is just one of those instinctive LB's that is always around the ball. He has the speed to play pass coverage and is great when watching him sent in on a blitz. While I will readily admit that he might not be the biggest player on the field, the guy just knows how to play and makes big plays in every game. Seriously, there wasn't a single OSU game where Shazier wasn't making a big play. He just has a knack for it. Put him in behind our d-line and team him up with Burfict and it's certainly something I would enjoy watching.

I still can't say as I know which spot they would utilize him in the LB corps, but there are still questions concerning everyone coming back opposite Burfict. If Porter is 100%, i'm really excited about what he could bring. Lamur has always been more than capable and was looking at a ton of snaps last season until he went down. Then there are the other guys in the mix as well. If I read a recent article correctly, even Vinny Rey was going to get a look on the outside.

I don't know what to make of our LB at this point or how Guenther might move things around, but I could see a situation where the players most thought we would take at #24 are gone and Shazier would present as the best player available. Then again, as I mentioned earlier, some player most thought wouldn't be there when your team goes on the board, falls. It happens every draft.

Wish we didn't have to wait an additional two weeks this year.

Hate that change.

IMO should be two weeks earlier

[HoosierCat]

Seeing more stupid sh*t like this lately.

They are not taking a QB in the first round.

[ArmyBengal]

They make it sound like they don't need to pay Dalton if they choose to bring him back.

Take a look at what all of the starting QB's make in this league that aren't on their rookie contract.

If Dalton comes back, he's going to get paid. Why people think he should make less than the market value is comical.

[kingwilly]

They make it sound like they don't need to pay Dalton if they choose to bring him back.

Take a look at what all of the starting QB's make in this league that aren't on their rookie contract.

If Dalton comes back, he's going to get paid. Why people think he should make less than the market value is comical.

Bengals have publicly said all the right things, and supported Dalton in their offseason approach.

The voice missing here is Dalton. Which is fine but perhaps he is asking for too much money. There is a big difference between what guys like Rogers, Brees and Eli make, and what Dalton "should" be offered.

If you look at the overpayment of guys like Cutler, Stafford and Flacco, then this is where I think Dalton is aiming. Those teams have overpaid for their QB because of their fear of losing their slightly above average QB, which is what Dalton is. Slightly.

Are you keen with tossing that kind of money at Dalton? I wouldn't be.

Given those deals to those players, should Dalton be asking for that type of money? probably so.

I think this is why no deal gets done. Especially in a climate where the big-game failures carry so much weight.

[ArmyBengal]

I wasn't implying they should offer Dalton anything in the same ball park as the top 5 in the league.

However, when looking at what guys are making even in the middle of the group, it's a large chunk of money.

For anyone to think that a QB that has taken his team to the playoffs (regardless of outcome) in each of his seasons since day one is going to get paid less than market value is on some serious drugs. It's just the nature of the situation. QB's (even average ones) get paid.

Carson Palmer is making 9 million in 2014.

Dalton is going to get paid here or elsewhere.

If someone prefers elsewhere, that's fine, but not my point.

I've also said that I would have little issue if Dalton doesn't come back in 2015 should he have an off season.

I simply don't think spending a 1st THIS season is the way to address that. Especially when considering the QB's in the draft.

[HoosierCat]

I understand the money argument. I don't agree with it, but I get why people object to paying Dalton market rate.

My annoyance at articles like Tanier's (who ought to know better) is, if Andy is an average QB, where are the 15 other articles arguing that teams with below-average QBs need to draft Mettenburger in the first round?

For example, shouldn't Dallas have to draft Mettenburger in the first round? Romo is 33, his backups are Orton and Weeden, who are both also NFL olds, he hasn't had a winning season or playoff appearance since 2009 and is 1-3 lifetime in playoff games. And if we know all there is to know about Dalton after three years, aren't we set in cement about Romo after 10?

Or how about the Bears? In 8 seasons Jay Cutler has led a team to the postseason once, in 2010, going 1-1. In 5 years in Chicago he has an 83 rating and throws three picks for every four TDs. Not only is he not being replaced by Metterburger in the first round of the draft, he just got a $126 million contract!

Why shouldn't the Rams have to take Mettenburger in the first? Sam Bradford is 18-30-1 as a starter, has a career 79 rating and, per PFR, currently has a career arc resembling such luminaries as Tim Couch, Vince Young and Joey Harrington.

How about Detroit? Stafford has 5 years under his belt, a career 83 rating and a Cutleresque TD/INT ratio. Where's the article about how the Lions should draft Mettenburger?

Drives me nuts.

[ArmyBengal]

Ok, let me throw another name out there that is getting little mention from the CB spot that will probably be there in the 2nd.

Phillip Gaines, CB, Rice

6'0, 193, 4.3 speed and a knack to get to the ball.

I'm not saying he "has" to be our pick, but I went in search of some of their games and watching his ability to break up passes is top notch.

It's players like him that make me say that CB isn't a lock to be taken in the first round.

[Walrus]

Ok, let me throw another name out there that is getting little mention from the CB spot that will probably be there in the 2nd.

Phillip Gaines, CB, Rice

6'0, 193, 4.3 speed and a knack to get to the ball.

I'm not saying he "has" to be our pick, but I went in search of some of their games and watching his ability to break up passes is top notch.

It's players like him that make me say that CB isn't a lock to be taken in the first round.

Yeah, I was checking him out after noticing that the team had him in for a workout. Looks like a good prospect - has speed, size, fluid hips, good film. Has been projected as a later round selection, but it looks like there are a good handful of teams who have worked him out or visited with him. Seems to be rising up some boards.

Edit: after reading some more, I won't be surprised if the Bengals (or some other team) takes him in the second.

[HoosierCat]

Some names from cbs:

Five players who should be on Cincinnati's draft radar:

(overall rating, position rating)

CB Jason Verret, TCU (29, 4): The Bengals have question marks at cornerback with Leon Hall returning from injury, Pacman Jones on the decline and the enigma known as Dre Kirkpatrick so there is a good chance of Cincinnati's first pick being a corner. The Bengals have spent a considerable amount of time doing their homework on several first-round prospects at the position, especially Verrett. Cincinnati coaches put the TCU corner through his positional drills at his pro day and he also recently visited the organization. Verrett isn't the biggest and recently had shoulder surgery, but his speed, reaction quickness and ballhawking skills translate well to the next level.

OL Joel Bitonio, Nevada (42, 3): Cincinnati's starting five on the offensive line is probably already on the roster, but depth is needed across the board, especially after the loss of Anthony Collins. Bitonio is a player that can wear several hats and line up on the edges (where he played in college), but also kick inside if needed. He is barrel-chested with the upper body strength to punch at the point of attack and bury his man, but he needs to show better body control and his lack of length shows up frequently. Bitonio is tenacious, stubborn and sticky as a blocker who is at his best in a phone booth where he can let his mean streak take over -- a reliable second-round draft pick.

SS Deone Bucannon, Washington State (82, 2): While Reggie Nelson has free safety locked down, strong safety has been a trouble area. Incumbent starter Taylor Mays is the type that you will always look to replace and if a prospect like Bucannon is still on the board in the second or third round, that time might be now. The Washington State product is a tough, physical player who emphatically throws his body around and will pile up the tackles, but needs to stay under control to make consistent stops. Bucannon has stiff hips and joints, but he plays fast with very good play speed, especially downhill, attacking the line of scrimmage.

DE Ethan Westbrooks, West Texas A&M (188, 17): The Bengals drafted Margus Hunt in the second round last year, anticipating the loss of Michael Johnson to free agency this season. And while Cincinnati expects a big jump in Hunt's development in his second season, adding youth depth at pass rusher should still be in the plans on draft weekend. Westbrooks is an intriguing developmental option who will probably cost a mid-round draft pick. He dominated the Division II ranks, flashing impressive pass rush skills for a player at his level. Westbrooks is very unpolished and unrefined, but there is a certain high reward for the coaching staff that can corral his raw talent.

LB Denicos Allen, Michigan State (223, 22): With James Harrison no longer on the roster, the Bengals will have a new SAM linebacker in 2013 and adding a player like Allen to compete for the job makes sense. He produced consistent numbers the past three seasons as a starter, leading the country's top-rated defense in tackles as a senior. Allen lacks ideal height and plays straight-linish, but his reaction time, play speed and nose for the ball stand out. He plays with a chip on his shoulder and is accustomed to proving doubters wrong, something I expect him to do in the NFL, at the very least on special teams coverages.

/>http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/nfl-draft-scout/24531435/nfl-draft-cincinnati-bengals-spotlight

[Walrus]

As a rule, anyone with serious character concerns along with serious talent must be a part of the Bengals' draft discussion. That said, anyone want to chime in on AL St. RB Isaiah Crowell? I think the guy is a

on the field and a

, despite having faced gun charges several years ago (dropped) and Burfict-like performances in the combine. Honestly, I would not mind seeing the team draft him with a 4th round pick.

[ArmyBengal]

Funny thing that you bring up RB Walrus.

I am left to wonder if the Bengals get their CB in the first round (like many believe), how much does that open the other rounds ??

Does it open it enough to take BJGE's replacement sooner rather than later ??

What if Carlos Hyde is there in the 2nd round ?? You would have to think Hue would be jumping on someone's desk at that point.

I've read about Crowell, but don't really have much input about him.

[HoosierCat]

Based on the link, walrus, I'd say no to Crowell. Not because of character or maturity concerns (though those would obviously be a factor) but because he doesn't look like the pound-the-rock type I think they need. Bengals need a thunder to pair with Gio's lightning.

I don't think Carlos Hyde makes it to their second round selection, but he would be a no-brainer if he were there. And if he were the pick at 24, I would not flip out...

[Walrus]

Based on the link, walrus, I'd say no to Crowell. Not because of character or maturity concerns (though those would obviously be a factor) but because he doesn't look like the pound-the-rock type I think they need. Bengals need a thunder to pair with Gio's lightning.

I don't think Carlos Hyde makes it to their second round selection, but he would be a no-brainer if he were there. And if he were the pick at 24, I would not flip out...

I dunno - he flat runs over guys. I disagree with some of the criticism he gets on the NFL.com analysis "Average balance and tackle-breaking power ... goes down too easy on contact". That's not what I see at all in either of the games on youtube. As a player, I think he's comparable to Marshawn Lynch. If so - yes, please!

Whereas, Carlos Hyde looks slow. Sorry guys, no thanks. Slow, Big 10 RB? I'm thinking Ron Dayne.

[ArmyBengal]

I don't think Carlos Hyde makes it to their second round selection, but he would be a no-brainer if he were there. And if he were the pick at 24, I would not flip out...

I can't say that I would either Hoosier, although i'm sure some heads would explode.

It would depend on who was on the board.

[HoosierCat]

Whereas, Carlos Hyde looks slow. Sorry guys, no thanks. Slow, Big 10 RB? I'm thinking Ron Dayne.

Dayne never lived up to his draft position, but I always thought he got a raw deal. I remember watching him pound away for a set of downs, then the Giants would swap him out for Barber, who would promptly fumble the ball. It was a goofy situation, with the Giants never really committing to one or the other: Dane was old reliable, while Barber was a home run threat, as long as he held onto the rock. But in any event Hyde's a better player than Dayne IMHO.

[kingwilly]

Assuming Gilbert is gone, I've been watching Dennard, Fuller, Roby and Verret film.

Fuller is the guy to get. beast.