Free Agency

[Scottishbengal]

With Ghee off to pastures new I wonder if there will be any serious interest in bringing in one of the FA Cornerbacks .... Tarrel Brown and Chris Cook are still available I believe, wouldn't mind seeing either/both coming here.

[ArmyBengal]

Army, you can't let a top notch starting LT go for 6 million a year

Who says they let him go ??

Again, if they weren't going to give him the LT spot, and by all accounts they weren't as Whit was said to want to move back outside, why would Collins WANT to stay here in Cincinnati when he could get a starting job somewhere else ?? Most players would probably take a little less if given the opportunity to start and play every game. This wasn't on the Bengals, it was on what Collins wanted and the Bengals don't control that.

The only way he was staying was as a backup and how much do you think it would have taken to get Collins to continue swallowing pride knowing he's a starter ??

I can guarantee you it wouldn't have been 6 million per year. Not only that, how much would you like to pay a backup to, well, backup ??

[ArmyBengal]

Tell me exactly how we are so much worse off then we were prior to the start of free agency ??

MJ was expected but there's no doubt it's a loss of talent on the defensive line. The loss of AC definitely reduces both our starting talent and depth on the o-line. Hawkins is arguably our best receiver after Green and Jones. That also represents a loss. Cook is addition by subtraction. Harrison is a meh: he didn't play badly last season but the SLB slot just isn't as important as it once was. The Bengals play so much nickel/dime the spot doesn't get snaps.

Overall, I would say the Bengals have taken some hits so far. Nothing crushing, but these things have a way of adding up. Still plenty of offseason to go. Things could get better. Or worse. We'll see.

I'm not really commenting on the fact that the losses aren't hits to the team. It's more about what was expected.

Is MJ a hit ?? Sure, but they have Geathers back healthy, Wilberry had 7.5 sacks, and they drafted Hunt. His loss was planned for.

Is Collins a hit ?? Sure, but apparently they weren't giving him the starter's spot and COLLINS decided to bail.

Had they signed Collins to a 7-8 million dollar a year deal to be a backup, everyone would be bitching about that.

Hawkins a loss ?? Again, sure, but we are talking about a position of depth and a guy most viewed as the #4 WR last year.

I will admit to this one being one that bothers me the most due to Hawkins speed and wanting to see him in Hue's offense.

With all that money guaranteed up front, isn't this exactly the situation most were talking about happening with any player prior to free agency ??

Most were saying the Bengals shouldn't have matched BEFORE they found out the guaranteed money was 1 million more than they thought. Now we are good ??

Harrison ?? Cook ?? Ghee ?? I really don't hope anyone is really that upset over either of those.

Yeah, we will be lucky to win 4 games next year...

[Scottishbengal]

Army, you can't let a top notch starting LT go for 6 million a year

Who says they let him go ??

Again, if they weren't going to give him the LT spot, and by all accounts they weren't as Whit was said to want to move back outside, why would Collins WANT to stay here in Cincinnati when he could get a starting job somewhere else ?? Most players would probably take a little less if given the opportunity to start and play every game. This wasn't on the Bengals, it was on what Collins wanted and the Bengals don't control that.

The only way he was staying was as a backup and how much do you think it would have taken to get Collins to continue swallowing pride knowing he's a starter ??

I can guarantee you it wouldn't have been 6 million per year. Not only that, how much would you like to pay a backup to, well, backup ??

I gotta agree wholeheartedly with this (despite my earlier rant, wailing, and gnashing of teeth at the Front Office). It appears to me that Collins wanted to be allocated the starter LT spot and when he wasn't he decided to ship out.... who among US wouldn't do the same. It wasn't about $$$ it was about the starter role. We could have offered AC $10M a year and he would have walked if he wasn't guaranteed a starter slot.

Personally I think giving AC the LT spot and keeping Whit at LG with Pollack at C would have been a good line up. But the perhaps Whit was groaning that he didn't want to move position ...who knows what conversations were going on behind the scenes?

[ArmyBengal]

Don't get me wrong, I would have preferred AC stayed and Whit remained at the LG spot.

Apparently that's not what Whit wanted and the team gave into what he wanted to do.

If someone wants to blame the organization for something, blame them for giving into a player they should have just told what to do.

Then they run the risk of pissing off players and not getting what you expect from them and they wouldn't do that with Whit.

Then again, we are all just trying to put pieces of the puzzle together. I still think it's more on AC than the team however.

[HoosierCat]

Yeah, we will be lucky to win 4 games next year...

<_</>

Yeah, there's been some overreaction. I don't think we are really disagreeing here. All I'm saying is that it's possible to simultaneously hold these two thoughts:

1. The Bengals are worse off than they were last week right now, and

2. The Bengals still have a good team

without your head exploding.

That said, I can't blame people for being upset, even if much of what's happened was expected. It's never easy to watch this team this time of year. And let's face it, the Bengals bring a lot of it on themselves. While other teams gear up ahead of FA, the Bengals put out BS story after BS story about how poor they are and how little cap space they have. The when the dance begins they sit in a chair against the wall and do nothing as others walk by and steal their punch. Even if that is the 100% right thing to do, it's still no fun to watch.

[cincyhokie]

When Burfict and Green are signed long term this will be easier to take.

If Dalton has a solid year and is resigned, this might be easier to take.

If Hunt can replace MJ's production, if a new #4 can step in for Hawkins, if we can get a solid center replacement for Cook, etc...etc...

The Bengals will do what they do. There will be some mid-tier signings, they will draft well.

My only concern is that they are possibly in a position now to go get those 1 or 2 players that could make a huge difference....and they won't.

I've been a fan for a long time and I still don't understand how some teams, like the Broncos, can be so successful and sign top tier FAs...and not be "strapped for cash".

My suggestion for everyone, and myself, is take a step back and enjoy baseball season, or your garden, or lawn, or your kids, or whatever....and check back in at draft time.

[ArmyBengal]

Do I agree the Bengals are worse off now ?? Absolutely, I just knew it was coming and accepted it weeks ago.

That being said, they seem to have set themselves up nicely and still have the draft coming up.

Teams go through this all the time and it's been said many times that when you have a roster as talented as the Bengals, you can't keep them all.

Would it better for them to run out and sign the next guy or wait to see what the draft brings ?? Who knows ?? Both sides can and will be argued.

The Broncos went out and grabbed some players in free agency, but how many of their own were already getting top 5 money at their position ??

The Bengals handed both Atkins and Dunlap big contracts last year. They still have Green, Burfict, and maybe Dalton to contend with.

Within the next couple seasons, there will be more with guys like Zeitler, Marvin Jones, and so on.

The Bengals have good players that would cost any team tons of cash and as mentioned, you can't keep them all.

I'm not stressing any of it and think another better than average draft will take care of most.

Yes, i'm confident in that happening.

This might be a draft where "Gimme a lineman" gets answered repeatedly, as I can see an OG, OT, DE, and maybe even DT getting addressed.

[TJJackson]

This might be a draft where "Gimme a lineman" gets answered repeatedly

stop trying to make me feel better about this offseason :-)

[HoosierCat]

Lewis news split out into another thread.

[skyline]

I suppose I wasn't aware that FA had ended already. I thought the Bengals still had time to make moves that will help replace a lot of the DEPTH that has been lost.

Oh well...after reading this thread, I am now aware that our offseason is lost and that the draft has officially become our only option to replace these people.

Bummer.

[TJJackson]

I will continue to wallow in my ocean of misery until further notice despite attempts to pull me out

[ArmyBengal]

This might be a draft where "Gimme a lineman" gets answered repeatedly

stop trying to make me feel better about this offseason :-)

You got me.

Seriously though, I expect it in this draft.

Especially seeing as how there will be a couple comp picks.

[ArmyBengal]

I suppose I wasn't aware that FA had ended already. I thought the Bengals still had time to make moves that will help replace a lot of the DEPTH that has been lost.

Oh well...after reading this thread, I am now aware that our offseason is lost and that the draft has officially become our only option to replace these people.

Bummer.

While I don't think they are through with free agency, I don't expect much more than extensions. Maybe one or two depth type of guys.

Honestly though, the draft will be much of the same. There are only so many places a rookie could feasibly start on this team, picking where we are.

[Scottishbengal]

there will probably be a signing or two of some old vet to plug the depth chart ... lose quality starter material and replace with average material. Lets be honest all the top talent will go early in free agency as it does in the draft.

And are we really expecting the draft to take us back to the quality (at starter and depth) that we had this time last week? Maybe the first round will impact, maybe the 2nd/3rd will have some play time ... but the rest will be development or practice squad fodder.

I refuse to accept that we are going to be stronger at the end of FA than we were before it ...... or does Marvin signing a one year extension count as a phenomenally positive move forward for the organisation???

[cincyhokie]

there will probably be a signing or two of some old vet to plug the depth chart ... lose quality starter material and replace with average material. Lets be honest all the top talent will go early in free agency as it does in the draft.

And are we really expecting the draft to take us back to the quality (at starter and depth) that we had this time last week? Maybe the first round will impact, maybe the 2nd/3rd will have some play time ... but the rest will be development or practice squad fodder.

I refuse to accept that we are going to be stronger at the end of FA than we were before it ...... or does Marvin signing a one year extension count as a phenomenally positive move forward for the organisation???

You summed up all of my concerns nicely.

[HoosierCat]

My biggest concerns have nothing to do with FA, rather they are about Atkins and Hall and how much/how soon they are back. Based on Hall's last Achilles injury, even if he is ready for the season it will take him half the games to round into shape. I figure there will be a similar curve for Geno. Having either one of them miss time in 2014 will hurt far worse than all our FA losses so far combined.

[ArmyBengal]

What rounds were MJ and AC drafted in again ??

[TJJackson]

How long did it take for us to develop them into star players, just in time to be stolen by other organizations, again?

[HoosierCat]

How long did it take for us to develop them into star players, just in time to be stolen by other organizations, again?

No doubt it's frustrating. OTOH many of the stars they have developed have gotten paid, like Atkins, Dunlap, Whitworth, Moobs, Nelson and Hall. And by all reports they are talking extension with Green, Dalton and Burfict.

I hate seeing guys like JJoe, Rucker, MJ, AC and (in all likelihood) Hawkins go, but the phrase "you can't pay everybody" has some truth to it.

[Kazkal]

there will probably be a signing or two of some old vet to plug the depth chart ... lose quality starter material and replace with average material. Lets be honest all the top talent will go early in free agency as it does in the draft.

Some of the best Free Agents were those type of "plung in a old vet" vs guys we actually signed early and spent money on.

I Rather have Nelson,Pacmans,Williams,Newmans & Gilberts a who actually have produced for us then Coles,Byrants & Utecht's.

[skyline]

Why am I replying to this. WHY!?!? My dad always taught me growing up that some debates just weren't worth the trouble when you know in advance that neither side will change their opinions. But here I am, anyway...

1) D-line - We lost Michael Johnson. I don't think most people are concerned about this and for good reason. We've known all along that the Bengals couldn't give two DEs the big money. They went with Dunlap. Gilberry has also played quite well. Margus Hunt showed signs of life at the end of the season. Who knows...we may draft a DE high in the draft or pick up a solid veteran next week that can be a productive part of the rotation. You don't need superstars at DE, especially if Atkins comes back and plays like a stud.

2) WR - We lost Hawkins. Yes, he was a nice weapon to have. Will the offense miss him? Not really. You've got Green and Jones as 1/2. Then there's the TE duo listed as a combined #3. #4 can be debated, but I'd go with Sanu. #5 is Bernard out of the backfield...I'm only putting him below Sanu because I expect him to take more carries which could impact the amount of receptions. Then again, maybe not. So, where does Hawkins fit? You have to think he's good for 2-3 monster plays next season which isn't worth the money he's getting, especially if that money can go towards locking up the real future(s) of this team in Burfict, Green, and/or Dalton.

3) Linebacker - It sounds like they are going to work hard to sign Vinny Rey...big win. Emmanual Lamur will hopefully be back and healthy. Contracts talks begin with Burfict. Hopefully Porter can contribute. A possible draft pick. A possible veteran signing in the next couple of weeks for depth. Things are looking rosy to me...

4) RB - No worries here. Who knows...they might kick the tires on some FAs. Fine if they do and fine if they don't.

5) Secondary - Another place I want to see them bring in a veteran for depth. They have time to do so, and we'll see if it pans out. But, if Hall makes it back, then we don't need to tie up any money in a superstar deal here, so those wanting someone like Revis or Talib are...well...misguided? Our safety play last year was actually pretty solid. Hopefully Taylor Mays is healthy and contributing, and hopefully Shawn Williams will develop nicely.

6) QB - We need a solid #2 option. Clearly nobody wanted the Bengals to sign McCown or someone big in FA, so nothing to complain about here. I personally hope they spend a 4th rounder on a high-ceiling draft pick. Veteran depth would also be welcome.

7) O-line - And here it is. The source of all the complaints as far as I can tell. First the good. Cook is gone, and it looks like Pollack has a shot to be the center. This is AWESOME. Or, maybe they surprise everyone and pick up a solid veteran center, or maybe they take someone in the draft. Regardless, they're addressing the position and most people like this. Clinton McDonald is gone. Whatever.

And then there's AC. Yes, we all wanted to keep him. Clearly the Bengals did as well. These things happen. So, we move Whit back to LT (there are far worse things to happen), and take a high draft pick for depth. Add another veteran depth guy during FA. Hopefully we see a healthy Hawkinson come back for depth. We still have Robinson as an option at Center should we need Pollack to play guard.

Where's the tragedy? Which of these aspects takes us from a 10-win team to a 4-5 win team?

[ArmyBengal]

How long did it take for us to develop them into star players, just in time to be stolen by other organizations, again?

Or maybe the better question is, how long did it take the team to get those players on the field.

It seems like this team has always drug it's feet on getting players snaps early on.

It's not like this is the first time this has happened. Simpson was another one they went on and on about.

You don't control who's ahead of them on the depth chart however.

[TJJackson]

I'm so happy!

Two really, really crappy OGs came to visit us :-)

/>http://www.cincyjungle.com/visits-workouts/2014/3/14/5509482/bengals-confirm-visits-with-guards-vladimir-ducasse-and-uche-nwaneri

Comments about these guys included

"At the time of his benching, Pro Football Focus rated him as the No. 66 ranked guard out of 70."

"PFF gave him a -10.4 run blocking score in 2013."

Yeah, these are the Collins replacements

WOOT WOOT SUPER BOWL BOUND

[HoosierCat]

Where's the tragedy?

Yes Yes YES! Sky you are a GENIUS!! It is the Most Perfect Bengals Free Agency Theme Song Ever Identified!!!

/>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SPcsMMEMbfw