HoosierCat Posted March 12, 2014 Report Share Posted March 12, 2014 I especially like that they're telling the team up north to shove it and quit sniffing around our playersTwo questions: First, now that the Bengals have matched Cleveland's offer, does that mean Hawk is officially signed and no longer an RFA (or can he not sign and continue to court higher offers elsewhere)?Second is maybe a dumb, speculative question, but how much does this count as a shot across the bow to any team sniffing around our RFAs? I mean, I'm sure the Browns don't like having their offer rejected by another team after they have successfully negotiated with the player... If it comes down to Bengals RFA Player A vs Player B, all other things being equal, might teams look at this offer match and feel it's not worth the effort to negotiate with Player A and have the offer matched and make an offer first to Player B? To what extent does this actually help our chances of retaining Vinny Rey (and other RFAs)?Now that Hawk has signed an offer sheet he either ends up with the Browns or the Bengals if they match. He doesn't get to continue to sign offer sheets.As to your second question, I suspect that had it been, say, the Jets or the Packers or any other team outside the division, they would have let Hawk go. Based on their tender to Hawkins they were hoping to get him for a lot less, maybe something like three years and $5-7 million. So the Browns about doubled what the Bengals were hoping to spend. That would have been enough to pry Hawk away, if it wasn't coming from a division foe and especially the Browns. Mike has never forgiven them for firing Paul. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjakq27 Posted March 12, 2014 Report Share Posted March 12, 2014 So if they end up cutting him in camp, how does this affect them at that time? Only the guaranteed money counts? And is it only against this year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyline Posted March 12, 2014 Report Share Posted March 12, 2014 I'm not sure how much the Hawk deal has to do with it being Cleveland. It seems like you have to look at this objectively in terms of whether or not he is worth the money we're going to have to pay him. If not, then you've got to let him walk regardless of where he's walking to.If Hawkins going to Cleveland is somehow going to be the difference regarding whether or not we can beat them, then we have much more serious problems to be worried about.Worried about Hawkins giving up team secrets? I doubt it. Everything is there on tape and changing up the language a little isn't a big deal. Not to mention the fact that we have a new offensive coordinator this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmyBengal Posted March 12, 2014 Report Share Posted March 12, 2014 I wonder if the Bengals actually were willing to pay him that much and simply were trying to get him on the cheap while they could.They had to figure there was going to be interest and you would think they would have a number in mind they were will to pay if it happened.With how quickly they responded, i'm guessing they were willing to pay him that regardless, but were simply trying to avoid it if they could.When he was healthy, he certainly is dynamic and adds a dimension to the offense that any team would like to be able to add.Now if the Bengals use him more moving forward is another question, but I think they do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted March 12, 2014 Report Share Posted March 12, 2014 What makes me believe that it made a difference that the offer came from Cleveland was the about-face on the match. Initial reporting from reliable sources indicated they wouldn't match, which suggests to me that people were looking at the numbers and they were above what they wanted to pay. Now the word is that they will match. I think that either The Family decided that Cleveland wasn't going to get the better of them again, or someone like Marvin or Hue made the case for spending more on Hawk, and the fact it was the Browns on the other end made it an easy sell.The bottom line is that the Bengals can easily afford this deal. They have plenty of cap space, which they try to cover with bullcrap about injury reserves and rookie pools, and numerous opportunities to create more space if needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmyBengal Posted March 12, 2014 Report Share Posted March 12, 2014 The bottom line is that the Bengals can easily afford this deal. They have plenty of cap space, which they try to cover with bullcrap about injury reserves and rookie pools, and numerous opportunities to create more space if needed.Couldn't agree with this statement more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted March 12, 2014 Report Share Posted March 12, 2014 On another note, according to Skunky over at MMQB, yesterday NFL teams spent (touching pinky to side of mouth) one BILLLLLLION dollars on free agents.Seriously. More than $1 billion. In less than one day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottishbengal Posted March 12, 2014 Report Share Posted March 12, 2014 RECAP:So we lost MJ to Tampa and Cook is on the streets.Babyhawk is under consideration.We've re-signed Tate, Pollack, and Taylor Mays.Whats the latest on AC, Vinny Rey, Sanzenbacher and any other UFA/RFA's ???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted March 12, 2014 Report Share Posted March 12, 2014 Collins to Tampa is supposedly a done deal, but FWIW it was supposedly a done deal yesterday too. As for the others, all has been quiet. I'm hopeful that Vinny sneaks through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmyBengal Posted March 12, 2014 Report Share Posted March 12, 2014 Heard RB Ben Tate is heading to Cleveland to discuss some things.Would like to see the Bengals intervene there as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyline Posted March 12, 2014 Report Share Posted March 12, 2014 Collins to Tampa is supposedly a done deal, but FWIW it was supposedly a done deal yesterday too. As for the others, all has been quiet. I'm hopeful that Vinny sneaks through.Heard RB Ben Tate is heading to Cleveland to discuss some things.Would like to see the Bengals intervene there as well.It's going to be really interesting to watch these two teams throughout the year. It's general NFL wisdown that building your team through FA leads to disaster, but that seems to be the route that both of them are going...So, what do we expect to see? Short term benefit, but long term problems? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted March 12, 2014 Report Share Posted March 12, 2014 Considering that Cleveland and Tampa went a combined 8-24, and both have a ton of cash they have to spend or run afoul of the CBA, I don't see a lot of downside for them. After a brutal pair of season, fans have something to get excited about and ticket and merchandise sales perk up. It would be hard to win fewer games, and if they can at least get to competitive, it will be a good year for them. Long-term, as long as the cap keeps going up, the big money deals shouldn't cause too many problems, as long as ownership is willing to shell out cash-in-hand. Think Snyderbrenner under the old CBA.As to building a championship team, tho, they are going to have to draft well and build a foundation. With the spree I think they (meaning the head coaches and GMs) are hoping for a year or two's breathing space to do that.Just my $0.02. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted March 12, 2014 Report Share Posted March 12, 2014 For those who are interested, here's the deal the Browns offered Hawk, per the National Football Post:Total amount over four years, with incentives: $13.1 millionIncentives: $900,000 in escalator clauses throughout the deal.Signing bonus: $3 million fully guaranteed.Base salaries:2014: $1.8 million (guaranteed for skill and injury)2015: $2.3 million ($500k guaranteed for injury only)2016: $2.5 million2017: $2.6 millionCap hit (not considering the escalators)/dead money2014: $2.55/$4.802015: $3.05/$2.252016: $3.25/$1.502017: $3.35/$750,000Note the cap hits are my estimate not NFP's. That is very doable. A bit rich for Hawk perhaps but that's the nature of free agency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmyBengal Posted March 12, 2014 Report Share Posted March 12, 2014 I think the only way it works for Cleveland to get older with the addition of both Whitner and Dansby is to draft well behind them.The Bengals have had success in the recent years with being able to draft replacements.It will be interesting to watch though, because just like I heard this morning on NFL Network, they talk about who the free agency winners are to this point and when considering the teams, they wonder how they will finish things out.The Ravens made what some thought were great moves in free agency last year and they haven't exactly worked out either.What teams never know is how well those players they bring in mesh with the scheme AND each other.It can be a crap shoot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kazkal Posted March 12, 2014 Report Share Posted March 12, 2014 Guys we won Free Agentacy we resigned Taylor Mays! ^.^ as for Baby Hawk well it's $$$ for a 3rd/4th It's really not too bad of cap number in Second to Fourth Year.Plus he had to be saved from going to the factory of sadness no Bengal deserves that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volcom69 Posted March 12, 2014 Report Share Posted March 12, 2014 RECAP:So we lost MJ to Tampa and Cook is on the streets.Babyhawk is under consideration.We've re-signed Tate, Pollack, and Taylor Mays.Whats the latest on AC, Vinny Rey, Sanzenbacher and any other UFA/RFA's ????When looking at what you wrote, it just does not look all that great. We lose starters, and sign back ups. I get not going after any of these really high priced guys, but there is some money there to make this team better. There are still some great players out there, so hopefully will check some of these guys out. Still wondering what will happen with this AC situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingwilly Posted March 12, 2014 Report Share Posted March 12, 2014 Kick the tires on Revis?other guys I'd like them to give a look:Ben TateChris ClemonsPeppers?Freeman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volcom69 Posted March 13, 2014 Report Share Posted March 13, 2014 Hobson says bengals have yet to get the browns offer sheet for Hawk. How is that? Somebody mentioned maybe the browns are upping the deal with more money, but how could they if Hawk already signed it? At least reports said he signed it, very confusing lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted March 13, 2014 Report Share Posted March 13, 2014 Kick the tires on Revis?Gone to the Pats, one year, $12 million.Stupid Kraft & Belichick don't they know FA is a waste of money???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volcom69 Posted March 13, 2014 Report Share Posted March 13, 2014 You would think the bengals will or should go after a CB with not knowing Halls status, even if it is an older CB to play nickel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottishbengal Posted March 13, 2014 Report Share Posted March 13, 2014 You would think the bengals will or should go after a CB with not knowing Halls status, even if it is an older CB to play nickel.Is Tarell Brown still available??I'm really hoping the Bengals can match-to-retain any offer Tampa throw at Collins, and then get Vinny Rey signed up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmyBengal Posted March 13, 2014 Report Share Posted March 13, 2014 Other guys I'd like them to give a look:Ben TateThank you... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmyBengal Posted March 13, 2014 Report Share Posted March 13, 2014 Apparently, Collins is still weighing offers of "Comparable money".I'm wondering if he's waiting to hear if they move Whit inside and he has a starter's job here in Cincinnati ??That HAS to weigh big on what's happening. If it's "comparable", I want to see the Bengals make this happen.Bengals free agent tackle Anthony Coillins was one of the many visitors to Tampa Bay, brought to town at a time when they could obscure the fact the Buccaneers were bailing on the expensive Darrelle Revis experiment. But he has several offers to pick from, and could be getting close to a choice. According to Greg Auman of the Tampa Bay Times, Collins is weighing offers from the Bucs and the Panthers in addition to the Bengals, and all three have “comparable money.” While two of those make sense, it’s the first peep we’ve heard from the Panthers in free agency, other than to say goodbye to guys leaving or retiring. Collins was good enough at left tackle to make the Bengals leave Pro Bowler Andrew Whitworth inside last year, so teams obviously think he has value/>http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/03/13/anthony-collins-weighing-bucs-bengals-panthers-offers/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted March 13, 2014 Report Share Posted March 13, 2014 Oakland could also jump into the mix. The lost Veldheer and then flunked Safford on his physical so he went back to St. Louis.But in any event I don't see the Bengals winning a bidding war. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmyBengal Posted March 13, 2014 Report Share Posted March 13, 2014 I thought about the Raiders as well when I saw the news about Saffold.They certainly have the cap room to outbid anyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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