HairOnFire Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 ((shrug)) No disrespect intended but it's pretty easy to slag the chances of any late round pick making an impact, especially when so many of them are drafted as hit-or-miss projects or strictly for special teams duty. In fact, I read once that of all players drafted after the 4th round only a third are still around to sign a 2nd NFL contract. Fewer still actually sign those contracts with the team that drafted them. Personally, I'd like to see the Bengals use fewer late round picks on projects who play highly valued offensive skill positions, especially WR. Why draft players who play positions where there's little or no playing time available? Why draft young players who play positions where you demand veteran experience or elite rookie skills? Instead, draft solid but unspectacular players who play devalued positions far more often. For just one example, and an unpopular one at that, how about Ndukwe? He's often criticized and IMHO too often it's undeserved. After all, he's a backup at best and if judged only as a backup he's returned outstanding value for the pick. Thus, the real failure rests with veteran starters who can't hold onto the job due to injury and coaches who repeatedly pass on potential draft upgrades in favor of other positions. The end result is Ndukwe too often playing a bigger role than desired, thereby turning a backup asset into a starting weakness. Yet you'd be hard pressed to find another 7th round pick returning as much bang for the buck....unless you cherry pick from all NFL rosters and multiple drafts. Just saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJJackson Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 I kind of get your point and you kind of made mine at the same time. While I can admit those are all good 6th round picks, Scott is the only one that was drafted by the Bengals (obviously)All I am saying is I'd rather have a pick on the off chance that said pick might contribute than no pick at allRecent contributors drafted 6th or laterBernard ScottMorgan TrentDuke NukemEthan Kilmer (short time here, mostly injured, but good when healthy)Tab PerryJonathan FaneneScott KooistraTJ Houshmanzadeh (whose departure turned into a r3 2010 comp pick for us - with which we chose Brandon Ghee)Brad St LouisI have a feeling that Reggie Stephens (2010 r7) will be starting at either G or (more likely) C in the next 1-2 years. This guy brings toughness, intelligence, versatility, and leadership, plus plenty of size and strength. He started a college game ten days after an appendectomy. See http://www.gocyclones.com/news.php?ID=2751. If he doesn't start, I'll bet big money he'll be the first backup at all the interior OL positions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wraith Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 Huddle Report is projecting Adrian Clayborn from Iowa to the Bengals at #4 and I have been hearing Marcel Darius from some other sites as well. Honestly the top end of this draft is all over the map at this point.I still maintain that so little talent separates AJ Green from Julio Jones from Jon Baldwin from a dozen other guys who are 6'3" and above and run in the low 4.5's that it would be silly to draft a kid at #4 when an equivalent player will likely be available in the next round (same argument I made against the Gresham selection last year, and I was right Gronkowski, Hernandez, and Moeaki all had similar seasons). That being said Green may very well be our selection or might go #1 or might drop out of the top 15. I have never seen a situation where there is so little consensus about the top of the draft.Guys I am hearing about:Robert Quinn has been getting alot of push and I must admit on film he is every bit the physical freak that Bowers is and when you compare their sophomore seasons Quinn is clearly the better player. Scott Wright of NFL Draft Countdown has him all the way up to #2 overall.Marcel Dareus has also been getting push but I am not sure he is a good fit for this team at 306 lbs he is big enough to play 4-3 DT but it would be a shame to waste that outside explosiveness. That being said I wonder whether he is quick enough to play 4-3 DE.Bowers is going backwards and rightfully so, he is a physical freak but was non existent as a freshman or a sophomore and now that Clayborn is getting push he could slide from the #1 pick overall to the third or 4th DE selected. He had a great senior season but why would a guy who was a full time starter as both a sophomore and a junior go from 3.5 sacks to 15.5 sacks in a single offseason? Is it performance enhancing drugs? or is it simply a lack of effort and which one is worse.The Huddle Report is talking up Clayborns leadership qualities, on tape he was the best DE in the Big Ten (a league that also had Kerrigan, Watt, and Heyward who also carry first round grades). If he shines in interviews at the combine he may leap ahead of Bowers and Quinn.Peterson is the one guy who seems to be stable but virtually everyone has him going to Denver at #2.Fairley is still my #1 guy but he is very unlikely to fall past the Bills at #3.I am still on the Von Miller bandwagon but he is remaining a fringe top ten prospect with one draft expert having him at #11 to the Texans several going to #8 and one having him drop to #19. No one is questioning his ability or his character, it seems to be an issue of the value of his position. After Fairley and Peterson however I don't see anyone else that carries the capability that Miller would have in our scheme. He is a terrific pass rusher and great at hunting down ball carriers behind the line of scrimmage. He is the unquestioned team leader and a very vocal leader which is something the Bengals need, similar to Bart Scott of the Jets but perhaps a little smarter.I guess at this point I would rank Fairley #1, Peterson #2, Quinn #3, Miller #4I would like us to draft the top Defensive player with the first round selection then go Baldwin at #2, Moffit the Guard from Wisconsin in Rd. 3, a QB (liking that Idaho QB more and more) with rd. 4, and Alex Henery at #5If we take offense in the first I would love us to take Paea the DT from Oregon St. or Greg Jones the ILB from Michigan St. in the second. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairOnFire Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 Honestly the top end of this draft is all over the map at this point. As expected. Let's face it, as Bengal fans we've been looking towards the draft for two or three months already, but it's still stupid early...with three months to go. Normally I don't start thinking about the draft until the Shrine Bowl, but like everyone else I've been checking rankings and mocks for several weeks....even though I know the information contained is almost worthless.I still maintain that so little talent separates AJ Green from Julio Jones from Jon Baldwin from a dozen other guys who are 6'3" and above and run in the low 4.5's.... It's a fair point, but by the same token it's one you wouldn't have made at this time last year. Because after that season Jones was mostly considered an unpolished physical freak who dropped way too many passes. To his credit he improved his game dramatically and now belongs in the same conversation with Green, a player who simply doesn't have any holes in his game. Robert Quinn has been getting alot of push and I must admit on film he is every bit the physical freak that Bowers is and when you compare their sophomore seasons Quinn is clearly the better player. Scott Wright of NFL Draft Countdown has him all the way up to #2 overall. In other words, not playing last season hasn't hurt Quinn's draft stock in some eyes....which seems to be a growing trend in the NFL draft.(Gresham) Marcel Dareus has also been getting push but I am not sure he is a good fit for this team at 306 lbs he is big enough to play 4-3 DT but it would be a shame to waste that outside explosiveness. That being said I wonder whether he is quick enough to play 4-3 DE. FWIW it wouldn't suprise me a bit if a player like Fairley started to get the same type of criticism now being directed at frontrunners like Bowers and Green. After all, Fairley is a 1-year wonder himself, and his personality is going to make some question whether he's deserving of the type of contract he'd command as a Top 5 pick. Furthermore, it's a remarkably deep class for defensive lineman. Bowers is going backwards and rightfully so, he is a physical freak but was non existent as a freshman or a sophomore and now that Clayborn is getting push he could slide from the #1 pick overall to the third or 4th DE selected. 3rd or 4th DE selected? Frankly, that seems crazier than suggesting AJ Green might fall out of the Top 15. He [bowers] had a great senior season but why would a guy who was a full time starter as both a sophomore and a junior go from 3.5 sacks to 15.5 sacks in a single offseason? Is it performance enhancing drugs? or is it simply a lack of effort and which one is worse. He played injured as a sophomore, missing considerable time in at least 6 games. Then, prior to last season he lost 20 pounds. The reasons given range from taking advice from his father to being inspired by the death of Gaines Adams, said to be his hero. Nutshelled, Bowers realized that to be a great player he needed a better work ethic and better conditioning. As for PED's, you can never rule them out for any prospect but Bower's breakthrough doesn't fit the normal pattern since it's based upon weight loss rather than weight gain. Finally, his statistical breakthrough only relates to sacks. That's high profile stuff, but he's been a top run defender from day one.I am still on the Von Miller bandwagon but he is remaining a fringe top ten prospect with one draft expert having him at #11 to the Texans several going to #8 and one having him drop to #19. No one is questioning his ability or his character, it seems to be an issue of the value of his position. Well, position AND fit. Most see Miller as a 3-4 guy....which is why so many early projections have him going to the Texans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmyBengal Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 Don't get me wrong, I'm not bitching about having a 6th round pick, only question the manner in which it is used.As Hair has stated better than I could:Personally, I'd like to see the Bengals use fewer late round picks on projects who play highly valued offensive skill positions, especially WR. Why draft players who play positions where there's little or no playing time available? Why draft young players who play positions where you demand veteran experience or elite rookie skills? Instead, draft solid but unspectacular players who play devalued positions far more often. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kazkal Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 Adrian Clayborn sounds like the typical marvin lewis end...6'4 285? gogo elephant ends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kazkal Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 Bowers is going backwards and rightfully so, he is a physical freak but was non existent as a freshman or a sophomore and now that Clayborn is getting push he could slide from the #1 pick overall to the third or 4th DE selected.Though They wearn't top 5 Picks Dunlap & MJ were both tagged with the same kind of stuff...Though MJ hasn't quite been as productive as Dunlap I still like him as a player and still seems to get good pressure just needs to finish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC_Bengals_Fan Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 I don't know much about Will Hill, but I demand the Bengals draft him. He even plays a position of need./>http://www.everydayshouldbesaturday.com/2011/1/19/1943956/the-happy-football-life-of-will-hill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairOnFire Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 I don't know much about Will Hill, but I demand the Bengals draft him. He even plays a position of need./>http://www.everydayshouldbesaturday.com/2011/1/19/1943956/the-happy-football-life-of-will-hill Well, he is funnier than Chad. But all things considered the idea of drafting Hill is a sour one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COB Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 I don't know much about Will Hill, but I demand the Bengals draft him. He even plays a position of need./>http://www.everydayshouldbesaturday.com/2011/1/19/1943956/the-happy-football-life-of-will-hillLMAO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted January 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 Perfect. Absolutely perfect. Put me on the draft Will Hill bandwagon! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wraith Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 Another guy to look at is Owen Marecic from Stanford.Smart, leader, competitor who will do anything to win. Plays FB and MLB first person in 40 years to start D1-A at two contact positions (Charles Woodson and Chris Gamble did at WR and CB but that is less demanding). If nothing else he would be a demon special teamer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kazkal Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 I'm all up for Will Hill in the undrafted rounds but I can't see anyone signing him after those tweets haha o_O Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volcom69 Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 If they dont re-sign JJoe or use the tag on him they may have to get Peterson. Still not sold on Green but many people still have the Bengals taking Green, if they do i wont be mad about it though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volcom69 Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 Another guy to look at is Owen Marecic from Stanford.Smart, leader, competitor who will do anything to win. Plays FB and MLB first person in 40 years to start D1-A at two contact positions (Charles Woodson and Chris Gamble did at WR and CB but that is less demanding). If nothing else he would be a demon special teamer.That woud be a great later pick, he reminds me of someone New England would pick up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjakq27 Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 If they dont re-sign JJoe or use the tag on him they may have to get Peterson. Still not sold on Green but many people still have the Bengals taking Green, if they do i wont be mad about it though.Does it make sense or is it feasible to re-sign JJoe and get Peterson? Look at the teams in the final 4. I can't speak for the Bears but the other three have great defenses. I think we need to go in that direction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volcom69 Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 If they dont re-sign JJoe or use the tag on him they may have to get Peterson. Still not sold on Green but many people still have the Bengals taking Green, if they do i wont be mad about it though.Does it make sense or is it feasible to re-sign JJoe and get Peterson? Look at the teams in the final 4. I can't speak for the Bears but the other three have great defenses. I think we need to go in that direction.Yep i think defense is the way to go, not that the Bengals offense is great but i think if the bengals get back to run first offense, ball control offense the defense can be pretty good again. So yes go defense, i want Fairly but he will probably be gone, so i guess its Bowers or Peterson either one would be pretty good. With Adam Jones wanting to start, i can see him having a great offseason, and ready to compete, and if he can stay healthy that can be a great back field. They also need to get a saftey either FA or somewhere in the draft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kazkal Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 If they dont re-sign JJoe or use the tag on him they may have to get Peterson. Still not sold on Green but many people still have the Bengals taking Green, if they do i wont be mad about it though.Does it make sense or is it feasible to re-sign JJoe and get Peterson? Look at the teams in the final 4. I can't speak for the Bears but the other three have great defenses. I think we need to go in that direction.to me it makes more sense,Letting Joseph walk is taking a step backwords...But if we draft him then draft peterson we can move him to FS or even SS...He's a willing hitter he has the size to be a safety and would be the fs/SS marvin has always preferred.Yep i think defense is the way to go, not that the Bengals offense is great but i think if the bengals get back to run first offense, For me it's simply BPA the only chance BPA will be offense is green otherwise top 10 seems to be loaded for Defense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sea Ray Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 What's the problem with drafting Peterson as a FS? I don't see why JJ has any bearing on the decision to take Peterson. Chances are the CBA will not be done by draft day and if that's the case we will not know JJ's contract status. My guess is they can count on a franchise tag being part of a new agreement. I haven't read that the tag is a negotiating hurdle of any kind Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjakq27 Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 What's the problem with drafting Peterson as a FS? I don't see why JJ has any bearing on the decision to take Peterson. Chances are the CBA will not be done by draft day and if that's the case we will not know JJ's contract status. My guess is they can count on a franchise tag being part of a new agreement. I haven't read that the tag is a negotiating hurdle of any kindI think the fear is that Peterson would be brought in to replace JJoe rather than compliment/upgrade the defensive backfield. If that's the case, what have you gained?So yes draft Peterson and plan on using him primarily as a safety or a situational corner and let him return punts as well. Then re-sign Joseph. I'm not ready to hand the job to Adam Jones just yet. I wouldn't bank on him just yet with his neck injury Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmyBengal Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 Agree that JJoe has no bearing on Peterson whatsoever. Many have already said his best position at the next level will likely be at safety and that sure as hell is a need for us. Couple that with the fact he can play CB and it's win win. You know, Hall is up for FA the next season, so there will be decisions to be made.That being said, I was wondering who you had in your sig for the draft last year Kaz ?? (Mays ??) I know you've had good luck with that in the past, so how about a "Welcome to the jungle Fairley" sig ?? Can't hurt can it ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kazkal Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 Agree that JJoe has no bearing on Peterson whatsoever. Many have already said his best position at the next level will likely be at safety and that sure as hell is a need for us. Couple that with the fact he can play CB and it's win win. You know, Hall is up for FA the next season, so there will be decisions to be made.That being said, I was wondering who you had in your sig for the draft last year Kaz ?? (Mays ??) I know you've had good luck with that in the past, so how about a "Welcome to the jungle Fairley" sig ?? Can't hurt can it ??I'll work on it and Ya I had Mays :> and I came close the Bengals did want him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volcom69 Posted January 23, 2011 Report Share Posted January 23, 2011 Well if Carson is telling the truth and might be gone, this will change everything on this draft board. A QB might be what the bengals will go after. Not many choices though, i think Cam might be the best one, is a franchise QB though??Im hoping they get another high draft pick if they let Palmer go, if thats the case then there will be all sorts of pickings for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kazkal Posted January 23, 2011 Report Share Posted January 23, 2011 Well if Carson is telling the truth and might be gone, this will change everything on this draft board. A QB might be what the bengals will go after. Not many choices though, i think Cam might be the best one, is a franchise QB though??Im hoping they get another high draft pick if they let Palmer go, if thats the case then there will be all sorts of pickings for them.If Big Ben is a Franchise QB I don't see why he can't be,Also wouldn't mind looking at looker if we could pick him up later in the draft...Don't really like Ryan Mallet though guy seems like a statue... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmyBengal Posted January 25, 2011 Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 To be honest, I don't like any of the QB's in this draft.I think Newton gets eaten alive, but if we have to have one, might as well be him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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