All things T.O.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

It is a smart move by Drew. Mikey won't budge. The question we have to ask is why he would pick the Bengals over the Jets?

That's not the relevant question to me - it's 'do they actually want him'? If they did, why wait until now? Their WR situation hasn't changed, and besides they didn't seem to be at all interested back during early FA. The only thing that would make any sense is that they don't really want him, but would rather give him $5M so the Bengals don't.

I'm not sure, but I'm smelling bluff. This could easily be a 'wink and a nod' deal to drive up the price.

[HoosierCat]

That's not the relevant question to me - it's 'do they actually want him'? If they did, why wait until now?

As PFT notes, under the rules of the uncapped year, the Jets were restricted in their ability to sign FAs until camps started to open, due to their going so deep into the playoffs.

As to the whole situation, why is anyone surprised that the Bengals are getting "Sapped" again?

[derekshank]

It is a smart move by Drew. Mikey won't budge. The question we have to ask is why he would pick the Bengals over the Jets?

That's not the relevant question to me - it's 'do they actually want him'? If they did, why wait until now? Their WR situation hasn't changed, and besides they didn't seem to be at all interested back during early FA. The only thing that would make any sense is that they don't really want him, but would rather give him $5M so the Bengals don't.

I'm not sure, but I'm smelling bluff. This could easily be a 'wink and a nod' deal to drive up the price.

The Jets were one of the final eight teams last year... and the NFL has an odd rule that I don't fully understand about signing FAs prior to the first training camp. Jason Taylor and LT were their big addition in FA, and they had to wait until the Cowboys opened training camp before they could pursue another.

The Jets seem interested in bringing in as many over the hill stars as possible... and T.O. would certainly fit that mold.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

As PFT notes, under the rules of the uncapped year, the Jets were restricted in their ability to sign FAs until camps started to open, due to their going so deep into the playoffs.

Crap, I missed that. Wasn't aware of that little tidbit in the new FA rules.

As to the whole situation, why is anyone surprised that the Bengals are getting "Sapped" again?

Won't be surprising in the least. I was counting on the deal getting done before some other WR got injured, didn't realize there were other opportunities for sniping. Actually, if we don't get him I'm hoping Mikey finds a creative reason. I was impressed with the Shaun Rogers debacle.

[HoosierCat]

Here's Peter King:

Usually I'd say in the case of the Bengals chasing a player with serious baggage, that it's owner Mike Brown forcing a guy into Marvin Lewis' locker room, causing Lewis to roll his eyes and say, "How exactly am I supposed to handle all these divas?''

But the Bengals' pursuit of Terrell Owens, from all indications, is a Carson Palmer production. Palmer, who slumped badly at the end of last season, wants weapons. The Bengals signed wideout Antonio Bryant in free agency. They drafted tight end Jermaine Gresham in the first round and wideout Jordan Shipley in the third. They have the insatiable Chad Ochocinco already. But that's not enough for Palmer, who worked out with Owens in California this month and thinks the receiver still has a good season or two left.

Now, part of the issue is the continuing question about Bryant's health. Last year, he struggled with a knee injury all season, even after having what was thought to be minor surgery. The knee was still bothering him at a June minicamp, when he couldn't practice in every session. The coaches won't know exactly what they have in Bryant until they get on the practice field Thursday at the start of training camp in Georgetown, Ky.

I give Palmer credit for one thing: He realizes he doesn't have a lot of chances left -- in Cincinnati, playoff consistency is an oxymoron -- and he doesn't want to be sitting there in October thinking, I can't count on Bryant, and I can't trust which way Gresham and Shipley are going at nut-cutting time.

He's willing to take a risk that he could have three veteran complainers in the meeting room this year if they don't think they're getting the ball enough. With Cincinnati being a predominant running team, and investing the pick and money in the most athletic tight end in the draft this year, it's entirely possible the leading wide receiver on the team could catch 70 balls -- with the others below 50. I don't care how peaceful Owens is now. If he's catching two or three balls a week, he's not going to be happy.

But if I'm Owens, I'm thinking I've got two pretty interesting options: Take the Bengals' offer (it's got to be somewhere in the $2-million-a-year range, with incentives) and be content with a third-receiver role that could morph into something better if Bryant's health remains an issue, or wait until another team doesn't like what it sees in its receivers in camp or gets an injury at the position sometime in August. Unless the Bengals' offer is going to disappear, I think he'd be smart to wait.

Regarding ESPN.com's Adam Schefter reporting this morning that the Jets have some interest in T.O., I have no reason to believe this isn't so. Assuming it's accurate, I have one word for the Jets' purported interest: insanity. Unless there's an injury we don't know about, or if the Jets are planning to move Jerricho Cotchery, I can't believe it would make any sense to add another sideshow to the Jets summer circus.

/>http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/peter_king/07/27/mailbag/index.html

[ShulaSteakhouse]

I've made the statement that I'm expecting big things from the team this year regardless of who shows up on the schedule.

A top 5 defense, a top end running game, a top end o-line, a real TE threat, a healthy Carson, an improved WR corps, and people cast doubts due to the schedule.

I get that, I just don't agree.

Not sure about the "top end 0-line" part though...I think pass protection like last year and the year before is still a major issue/weakeness. The lack of a passing game had just as much to do with Palmer's inability to step up and have time to throw too often, as it did losing TJ (and Kelly to a lesser extent).

Of course we can hold out hope that Andre Smith and Gresham (if he doesn't miss half of training camp per the norm here) are the real deal and improve that part of things.

In any case I would say the 0-line is, once again, their weak area, although that was certainly shared by the TE's and WR's last year.

[BengalByTheBay]

As to the whole situation, why is anyone surprised that the Bengals are getting "Sapped" again?

Ahh, there it is...the old "moe is we" mantra. Seriously, TO has close to zero market. The Bengals have, apparently, offered him a relatively-low contract and he's shopping it around. This isn't "the Bengals getting 'Sapped' again" - this is the way the offseason works for pretty much every team. The Bengals offered what they're willing to pay. If he wants to go to the Jets then all of the doomsday scenarios discussed above about how we would have to let go of a promising WR don't come to pass. Is that such a bad thing? Actually, no, it's not. So, the Bengals are in a prime spot to cherry pick a veteran WR. The last thing they need to do is get into a bidding war with the Jets. The best negotiating leverage is not to need him -- and we have that. This is July after all - it's not like teams have been killing themselves to dance with TO all summer.

[HoosierCat]

This isn't "the Bengals getting 'Sapped' again"

Of course they are. Same agent, same playbook. As I noted in another thread, that doesn't mean the end result will be the same, but that will only mean there was no Al Davis to ride to TO's rescue.

The best negotiating leverage is not to need him -- and we have that.

Well, that depends on the true status of Bryant's knee.

[HoosierCat]

And, right of schedule, comes the next page in the Rosenhaus playbook, the public leaking of TO's salary demands...

/>http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/07/27/to-hints-at-his-current-asking-price/

[HairOnFire]

As to the whole situation, why is anyone surprised that the Bengals are getting "Sapped" again?

Quite honestly...there's a big part of me that would be just as thrilled to miss out on Owens as I was when the Raiders stepped in and saved the Bengals from a bullet. Because just as in that example I see the Owens signing bringing as many potential negatives as positives.

That said, at this point I'm not taking the Jet rumor seriously....even though I kind of want to.

[HairOnFire]

It is a smart move by Drew. Mikey won't budge.

Not only won't he budge but history teaches us he'll react with a hard deadline....now confirmed by several sources.

For those of us who love a little front office hardball....this is good stuff.

[derekshank]

And, right of schedule, comes the next page in the Rosenhaus playbook, the public leaking of TO's salary demands...

/>http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/07/27/to-hints-at-his-current-asking-price/

Yeah. Not sure what to make of it though. Perhaps an attempt to let other NFL teams know what a bargain they could get... because Drew Rosenhaus should know better than to hope this will get Mike Brown to up his ante.

He's worked with Brown with Chad, and the whole world saw the Andre Smith negotiations. Take it or leave it T.O., but the offer ain't changing... and will only be on the table until training camp starts.

[BlainThePain]

I have a gut feeling that if T.O. is signed, Bryant will be pupped.

[HairOnFire]

And, right of schedule, comes the next page in the Rosenhaus playbook, the public leaking of TO's salary demands...

/>http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/07/27/to-hints-at-his-current-asking-price/

Yeah. Not sure what to make of it though.

Here's what I make out of it.

It's still too much.

Months ago the Bengals were said to be offering a contract somewhere between slightly above 2 million to 2.5 million.

[BengalByTheBay]

The best negotiating leverage is not to need him -- and we have that.

Well, that depends on the true status of Bryant's knee.

So what you're saying is that IF the completely unsubstantiated rumors of continuing problems with Bryant's knee are baseless - and he ends up playing - then you agree with me. Sensible. And IF under those circumstances TO doesn't sign with the Bengals, where is the huge disaster? Perhaps it's me and my misunderstanding your terms. If by "Sapped" you mean that the Bengals refuse to enter a bidding war for a FA they only kinda want, then maybe we're saying the same thing. If, however, by "Sapped" you mean that the Bengals are too stupid to fall all over themselves chasing after a player that never wanted to come to Cincinnati and was only using them as leverage, I disagree. First, it doesn't really look like anyone else is chasing TO that hard. Second, I do think TO wants to come to Cincinnati - if only because it's better than Buffalo and his bestest buddy and big toe Chad is there. I simply cannot understand your desire to see this as anything other than a win-win scenario. If TO doesn't sign, how is this team remarkably worse than a week ago?

[BengalByTheBay]

And, right of schedule, comes the next page in the Rosenhaus playbook, the public leaking of TO's salary demands...

/>http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/07/27/to-hints-at-his-current-asking-price/

Kid of sad really... It's a last gasp to get somebody else to pay a little more. As far as I'm concerned I kinda hope they do. If not and he's a Bengal, I suppose I'll learn to live with it. And for the record, I don't really see TO as the last piece of the puzzle for this team to get to the Superbowl. Just me...

[derekshank]

And, right of schedule, comes the next page in the Rosenhaus playbook, the public leaking of TO's salary demands...

/>http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/07/27/to-hints-at-his-current-asking-price/

Yeah. Not sure what to make of it though.

Here's what I make out of it.

It's still too much.

Months ago the Bengals were said to be offering a contract somewhere between slightly above 2 million to 2.5 million.

Yeah, I agree with that.

I was more wondering what the motives for leaking his asking price were... because if it's in hopes that Brown offers a bigger contract, Rosenhaus is even dumber than I thought... and that's saying something.

[walzav29]

I'm sure Drew has plenty of experience in dealing with Mike Brown. I remember last year when Marvin was talking to Andre's agent. He's said he's seen this before and Mike's not budging (not exact quote). I would imagine it does 2 things. Get's a teams fan base thinking it's a great deal and maybe us Bengals fans to say, "HEY PAY HIM!" but I know Mike loves the bargain. Maybe he can tie T.O. to Mike Browns car and throw in the rope for free!

[derekshank]

I'd be okay with working his contract demands into some incentives. But I could still take or leave T.O. If they sign him, I'm not shouting Superbowl. If they don't get him, I'm not seeing the sky fall. It's merely the most interesting story going now... and that's not saying much.

[ShulaSteakhouse]

Even $3.25 mil is not a bad salary for what he can potentially add.

There's no hard cap this year right? Throw-in realistic incentives, be a little creative Katie.

Would be very Bengal-like if they pass on him over $1 mil or so.

[HoosierCat]

If by "Sapped" you mean that the Bengals refuse to enter a bidding war for a FA they only kinda want, then maybe we're saying the same thing. If, however, by "Sapped" you mean that the Bengals are too stupid to fall all over themselves chasing after a player that never wanted to come to Cincinnati and was only using them as leverage, I disagree.

By "Sapped" I'm referring to the process we are watching play out, which is SOP for Rosenhaus when trying to move a client with baggage late in the game like this.

As for Bryant's knee, considering we know for a fact he was limited in minicamps earlier this year, "completely unsubstantiated" is a bit much, wouldn't you agree?

[HairOnFire]

It seems obious the term "Getting Sapped" means different things to different people. For me, it's shorthand for dodging a bullet without actually moving. For others, it's shorthand for being played and manipulated by negotiators who conspire to beat you to the last punch.

What isn't clear is why "Getting Sapped" is often used by Bengal fans as a negative. Remember, Warren Sapp busted fairly hard with the Raiders, and ended up earning less than he would have had he signed with the Bengals, the very team that was said to be victimized by the Raiders less than impressive last minute swooping.

[HoosierCat]

I was more wondering what the motives for leaking his asking price were...

Trying to generate buzz among fans of and media covering other teams ("hey, $3.5 million is cheap!") and see if he can't draw another team into the bidding. If they could use a wideout and think he'll excite the fanbase and sell more tickets, especially in this economy, someone may come nibbling.

[BengalByTheBay]

As for Bryant's knee, considering we know for a fact he was limited in minicamps earlier this year, "completely unsubstantiated" is a bit much, wouldn't you agree?

Perhaps, but "limited" in minicamp is probably the most used phrase ever. Players are limited because they're rehabbing, losing weight, or simply because they're veterans. I breathlessly watched Jeremy Johnson come into camp so overweight that he could hardly walk from the parking lot last season. He was "limited" throughout most of training camp (not minicamp) and then started week 1. So, if Bryant is too hurt to play we can agree there is a problem. I don't think the answer to that problem is to chase after TO with a $5 mil. budget, but that's just me.

[membengal]

I have no problems with the Bengals identifying what they want to pay and seeing if Owens will take it. I wonderif Rosenhaus will be real with what a bad decision it was to steer Sapp to Oakland...