ArmyBengal Posted March 11, 2022 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2022 Can’t see the breakdown but for those that love the PFF rankings, Collins was an overall of 82 for 2021. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMPHAR Posted March 11, 2022 Report Share Posted March 11, 2022 Wonder why the Boyz don’t want a top RT for $10m? Seems like a good deal to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMPHAR Posted March 11, 2022 Report Share Posted March 11, 2022 Oh had a hip surgery and suspended for missing drug tests. Probably not trading for that unless there is a team favorable extension. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJJackson Posted March 11, 2022 Report Share Posted March 11, 2022 14 hours ago, membengal said: He's a right tackle. Bengals should definitely be involved in trying to get him. erk on re-reading, yeah, youre right, he is an ORT However, looks like there is a lot of baggage and disgruntlement. I'd be afraid this'd be Cordy Part Two, personally. He was suspended the first month or so to start the year, came back, and then the team sat him as a healthy scratch at some point, and now the Cowboys dont see him as a good value as a 82 rated (fanfreakintastic) tackle for a mere 10M. This all screams "proceed with EXTREME caution" to me. Could he turn it around in a new city? Sure. A definite maybe. But we dont know that with any certainty, and I definitely dont want this SuperBowl team's locker room chemistry messed with Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wraith Posted March 11, 2022 Report Share Posted March 11, 2022 La'el Collins had an overall PFF grade of 82, pass blocking 74.3, run blocking 89.7 in 2021. He is 28.6 years old he did not play in 2020 but his 2019 and 2018 #'s are pretty similar. PFF has him graded as the 15th best Tackle in the NFL in 2021. The Cowboys like Terrance Steele who is younger (24) and they are want him to take over at RT, that makes La'el a commodity. BTW, Terron Armstead was ranked 26. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJJackson Posted March 11, 2022 Report Share Posted March 11, 2022 Mem, are there any useful/interesting tidbits in this paywalled Athletic article? (if you posted already, sorry) https://theathletic.com/3173904/2022/03/10/defining-bengals-free-agency-decisions-part-1-finding-the-interior-offensive-line-fit/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMPHAR Posted March 11, 2022 Report Share Posted March 11, 2022 39 minutes ago, Wraith said: He had an overall PFF grade of 82, pass blocking 74.3, run blocking 89.7 He is 28.6 years old he did not play in 2020 but his 2019 and 2018 #'s are pretty similar. PFF has him graded as the 15th best Tackle in the NFL in 2021. The Cowboys like Terrance Steele who is younger (24) and they are want him to take over at RT, that makes La'el a commodity. He's a reclamation project not a commodity. The Cowboys benched him and then threatened a trade near the deadline this season. Some speculate to "motivate" him not really about Steele. Considering they are in the trade market again and Steele played in front of him, you can guess it didn't work. If they don't get a trade, he'll be cut. It only makes sense for the Bengals for a low round draft pick WITH a contract restructure that would cut his cap down to a Spain type level and maybe 2 years. Taking on his $10m salary this year makes little sense with his red flags and there are plenty with this guy. Wait til he's cut and about late March. Get a 1 year or 2 year throw away deal. That's were his market will probably be. If the Cowboys get something good in a trade, good for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJJackson Posted March 11, 2022 Report Share Posted March 11, 2022 Wraith: everything I am reading indicates that there is more to the story than just a younger backup player moving up. Baggage and conflict. If we do trade for him, I hope you're right. The team chemistry right now is excellent, and we ABSOFREAKINLOOTLEY need a quality ORT, and is PFF numbers say he is that and more. No one is more aware of all that than me - I've been harping and hyperventilating on this specific need for at least 2 years now :-) I want a quality ORT, but I do NOT want another Cordy or otherwise someone who cant get on the field due to substance suspensions, which is where he was at the beginning of 2021. The most important ability is availability.....everything else comes after that Obviously, he has a lot of value at a position of extreme need for us, so he's worth taking some sort of risk on. The question is: how much risk? I cant see a high draft pick here. I see a low pick with a conditional upgrade to maybe as high as a 3, but more likely a 4. and he'd have to agree to an incentive-laden contract extension, focused on both availability and performance. Maybe a big roster bonus each year that would serve as a point of reward after a year when he does well as well as a point of exit if he does not Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wraith Posted March 11, 2022 Report Share Posted March 11, 2022 A benched player with over 700 offensive snaps last year...... Here is my $0.02. The locker room in Dallas sucks. full of me first players, the entire organization stinks from head on down. As we saw with Chido it is very difficult for some guys in that environment to thrive. His play on the field is very strong, he doesn't seem to take plays off. We have Awuzie and Pollack in place to spill the tea if he is a problem. You can believe that they will do their due diligence. If they pull the trigger, I am over the moon. if not we can assume that there were character issues that warned them off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmyBengal Posted March 11, 2022 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2022 I would be interested in Collins at a much lower price point and not giving up much in return. How about Trae Waynes for Collins straight up ?? Collins has 3 years left on his current deal for awareness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
membengal Posted March 11, 2022 Report Share Posted March 11, 2022 1 hour ago, TJJackson said: erk on re-reading, yeah, youre right, he is an ORT However, looks like there is a lot of baggage and disgruntlement. I'd be afraid this'd be Cordy Part Two, personally. He was suspended the first month or so to start the year, came back, and then the team sat him as a healthy scratch at some point, and now the Cowboys dont see him as a good value as a 82 rated (fanfreakintastic) tackle for a mere 10M. This all screams "proceed with EXTREME caution" to me. Could he turn it around in a new city? Sure. A definite maybe. But we dont know that with any certainty, and I definitely dont want this SuperBowl team's locker room chemistry messed with Let me introduce you to Joe Burrow. And remind you that Collins went to LSU...(before Burrow was there, but, still...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJJackson Posted March 11, 2022 Report Share Posted March 11, 2022 19 minutes ago, Wraith said: A benched player with over 700 offensive snaps last year...... your question here is understood. He was out games 2-6 for substance abuse suspension and was benched in week 7 despite being available. As far as I know he started week 8 through the end of the season. Army: I am reading that he has 2 more years on current contract Mem: I get that he might become a solid citizen, maybe even happy, in Cincinnati with Burrow and Chase and other LSU alumni. But its not a certainty. Its a risk. a substantial one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJJackson Posted March 11, 2022 Report Share Posted March 11, 2022 I gotta emphasize again - La'el - yeah, there is a lot to like. a shitload to like. I get it, really, I do. But he also represents a huge risk Im ok with shouldering risk as long as steps are taken to minimize the potential losses and/or negativity if those risks become reality here. LIke putting money in incentives rather than guarantees. LIke making draft picks traded conditional. etc etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wraith Posted March 11, 2022 Report Share Posted March 11, 2022 8 minutes ago, TJJackson said: your question here is understood. He was out games 2-6 for substance abuse suspension and was benched in week 7 despite being available. As far as I know he started week 8 through the end of the season. I just believe there is ripe fruit to be picked in Dallas. I believe the toxic culture of places like Dallas, Washington, and Miami bleed over onto the field (Flores was able to contain Miami's suckatude by being an absolute stud head coach). I am a big fan of Connor Williams for that reason as well (and that he has gotten better every year of his short career). Barring negative character reviews by his teammates and coaches on the Bengals staff/roster it is an absolute slam dunk to get a guy in the prime of his career at a position of absolute need for $10 million per year. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmyBengal Posted March 11, 2022 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2022 12 minutes ago, TJJackson said: Army: I am reading that he has 2 more years on current contract https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/dallas-cowboys/lael-collins-17403/ He's not an UFA until 2025. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJJackson Posted March 11, 2022 Report Share Posted March 11, 2022 I love Connor Williams. Probably the number 1 guy I'd like us to pick up in FA, and given his age, he's the one I'd like to see for a longterm contract even though he is mostly a LEFT guard rather than ORG If he was primarily a ORG, I'd be foaming at the mouth to sign him If he is brought in, I'd presume that Carman would continue to be pushed to ORG, and Spain would be out. I like Spain, and wish he'd stick around as a quality backup, but I know he expects to start. If Connor could play ORG at the same level he played OLG at Dallas, wow, that'd be fantastic. But I think I am dreaming here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMPHAR Posted March 11, 2022 Report Share Posted March 11, 2022 4 minutes ago, Wraith said: I just believe there is ripe fruit to be picked in Dallas. I believe the toxic culture of places like Dallas, Washington, and Miami bleed over onto the field (Flores was able to contain Miami's suckatude by being an absolute stud head coach). I am a big fan of Connor Williams for that reason as well (and that he has gotten better every year of his short career). Barring negative character reviews by his teammates and coaches on the Bengals staff/roster it is an absolute slam dunk to get a guy in the prime of his career at a position of absolute need for $10 million per year. What are you talking about? These aren't review via teammates. He was suspended. He was accused of bribing drug testers. He sued NFLPA and NFL and lost. In 2020 he was out of shape, had some car wreck, then came up in October with a hip injury. Then benched in 2021. Yeah it would be an absolute steal to get a RT in the prime of his career for $10m of cap room. But that's not Collins he's a reclamation project that you don't trade any significant draft capital for and then pay $10m for 1 year while taking on that risk. Wait for him to be cut or offer a 7th rounder only with a cut in pay hopefully getting a 2nd year with no future dead money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted March 11, 2022 Report Share Posted March 11, 2022 There’s no dead money. Collins’ comp is strictly salary. He doesn’t get a dime until the games start. That’s one of the most attractive things about the deal: zero guaranteed coin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
membengal Posted March 11, 2022 Report Share Posted March 11, 2022 39 minutes ago, Wraith said: I just believe there is ripe fruit to be picked in Dallas. I believe the toxic culture of places like Dallas, Washington, and Miami bleed over onto the field (Flores was able to contain Miami's suckatude by being an absolute stud head coach). I am a big fan of Connor Williams for that reason as well (and that he has gotten better every year of his short career). Barring negative character reviews by his teammates and coaches on the Bengals staff/roster it is an absolute slam dunk to get a guy in the prime of his career at a position of absolute need for $10 million per year. High five this post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMPHAR Posted March 11, 2022 Report Share Posted March 11, 2022 5 minutes ago, HoosierCat said: There’s no dead money. Collins’ comp is strictly salary. He doesn’t get a dime until the games start. That’s one of the most attractive things about the deal: zero guaranteed coin IF you redo his contract (which they should) do one with no dead money. He's not worth $10m of cap room. That's not attractive at all given his baggage, thus why he is on the trade market. You can find a more reliable player for that kind of money. Collins is only worth risk at a cheaper rate. If you do take the risk it would be nice to get the 2nd year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wraith Posted March 11, 2022 Report Share Posted March 11, 2022 53 minutes ago, AMPHAR said: What are you talking about? These aren't review via teammates. He was suspended. He was accused of bribing drug testers. He sued NFLPA and NFL and lost. In 2020 he was out of shape, had some car wreck, then came up in October with a hip injury. Then benched in 2021. Yeah it would be an absolute steal to get a RT in the prime of his career for $10m of cap room. But that's not Collins he's a reclamation project that you don't trade any significant draft capital for and then pay $10m for 1 year while taking on that risk. Wait for him to be cut or offer a 7th rounder only with a cut in pay hopefully getting a 2nd year with no future dead money. I am talking about the fact that Pollack was his coach, Chido was his team mate. We have institutional intelligence about La'el as a person in the building. On the field he has been a very good player and a consistent performer. He is not yet 29 years old. There were alot of guys that took 2020 off, let's face it, it was a tough year for most of us. So yes, he had a suspension, but he started for the team the second half of the season and started the playoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMPHAR Posted March 11, 2022 Report Share Posted March 11, 2022 10 minutes ago, HoosierCat said: There’s no dead money. Collins’ comp is strictly salary. He doesn’t get a dime until the games start. That’s one of the most attractive things about the deal: zero guaranteed coin His $10m counts towards the cap when you assume the contract in a trade. That's the problem. This effectively takes them out of any other option at RT. So are you willing to have him as your front line RT option after his past two seasons? This doesn't even consider trade capital. When I saw he was available, I was just like Mem and Wraith. Goody Goody. Then its like...wait a minute that's a good contract for a good player, why? Oh, that's why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted March 11, 2022 Report Share Posted March 11, 2022 The cap is a fiction. That $10 million in space is inconsequential in terms of moves they could make and does not take them out of anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJJackson Posted March 11, 2022 Report Share Posted March 11, 2022 I agree that 10M is inconsequential for top notch ORT play, plus he is signed for (per Army's link) three years total My worries are mostly about his availability (and 2nd: potential team chemistry issues) If we take the guy on we are no longer looking at another ORT nor are other potential starting ORTs looking at joining us....and if at that point things go sideways we're back to a backup at ORT. Which is bad. REALLY BAD We're fucked. Burrow is fucked. It is no real consolation to me that cap money can be recouped by just cutting him - the problem is that Burrow goes back to being hit more often, which is for me the whole point Will it happen that way? I hope not. But it could. If we do a deal for La'el we'd need to have a very solid backup at ORT as well, and no, I'm absolutely not talking Prince here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmyBengal Posted March 11, 2022 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2022 Again, he has 3 years remaining on his contract. 2022, 2023, 2024 and he's UFA in 2025. Worried about that 10 million in 2022 ?? Cut Waynes or make him the part of the trade. We've paid Waynes a fuck ton of money for absolutely nothing. I'd rather have the upside of Collins for that money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.