Offensive Line Draft Talk Thread

[membengal]

Quote

 

On the other hand , while some franchises cannot draft and develop WRs to save their lives (Pats, Ravens) - the bengals are generally REALLY good at it. The occasional miss, but by and large, they get players who actually help. 

Off the top of my head (in my relative lifetime):

Early draft Hits:

Collinsworth, Eddie Brown, Tim McGee, Carl Pickens, Darnay Scott, Chad J, AJ Green, Tyler Boyd, Tee Higgins

Early draft Misses:  David Verser (picked ahead of Collinsworth), John Ross, Peter Warrick (injury related mostly)

Later in draft major hits:  TJ Housh, Sanu, Marvin Jones

I mean, on balance, this team does pretty damn well with receiver draft picks. So, yeah, i get that it is frustrating, but it also is a position that for whatever reason this team scouts and develops well as opposed to...a LOT of the other positions. 

There's some comfortability there for me as a fan...

 

 

That said, FA receivers is pretty interesting this year potentially --- Corey Davis, Curtis Samuel, Allan Robinson - there's some guys who would be nice options. AND, they have gotten AJ 100 targets this year - so a pretty easy sell to FA wide receivers that even with Boyd and Higgins there's enough balls to go around...

 

Then again, our FA wide receiver history is...bad. 

[HoosierCat]

Wide receiver is also a legit area of need. Ross and AJ are both gone after Sunday. Tate reportedly wants out. That leaves Higgins, Boyd and the dude from yesterday who looks like Jeff Spicoli. Chase would be a terrific addition to the corps.

Seeing a lot of love for Florida TE Kyle Pitts, too.

[AMPHAR]

Bengals need shit everywhere.   Pitts should be on their board too.    It doesn't really matter where you take the tackle, WR, or pass rusher.     None of it works well enough in 1 off season if you just fix 1 need.   They need to hit on multiple needs through out the draft.  Of course retain their FAs AND add FAs.

When you look at it that way,  you quit caring what position group they select first.  

 

[Stripes]

If it's Chase, I fully expect him to be a good, productive receiver for the Bengals. If it's worth anything (it's not), I also expected Ross to be garbage. I like Chase and I won't throw a fit about that. I might be a bit radical in that I think a Hall of Fame WR is less valuable to a team than a Pro Bowl OT is.

If we don't make too many assumptions about relative positional value, the Bengals could justify drafting just about anything round 1 outside QB and maybe safety.

[Wraith]

1 hour ago, Stripes said:

If it's Chase, I fully expect him to be a good, productive receiver for the Bengals. If it's worth anything (it's not), I also expected Ross to be garbage. I like Chase and I won't throw a fit about that. I might be a bit radical in that I think a Hall of Fame WR is less valuable to a team than a Pro Bowl OT is.

If we don't make too many assumptions about relative positional value, the Bengals could justify drafting just about anything round 1 outside QB and maybe safety.

Yep it is shaping up to be a BPA draft, the thing they absolutely cannot do is reach for a lesser talented player because they have it in their heads that they need to draft a certain position.  We have seen the Bengals do that too often.  If they miss out on Sewell they should just select the next best player on their board (unless that player is QB, RB, or S) and fill whatever holes they need in FA.  There are going to be fewer buyers in FA this year because so many teams will struggle to be under the cap....the Bengals need to be aggressive in FA again.

If Sewell is gone and they take Chase or Pitts, I will be extremely happy.  Ja'Marr Chase would have been the #1 WR in the draft last year as well, he is that good.

[TJJackson]

I can't agree with that, Wraith, at least not entirely

There's a guy on our team, a new guy, who had his knee shredded and is currently undergoing rehab work that will probably last for at least the next 9 months, maybe longer

He is in my opinion the single most important player on this team (and eventually will be the highest paid one) and ergo it is of the utmost importance to protect this New Guy far far FAR better than we did in 2020.

This means making the OLine far stronger than it was in 2020.

Both for now and for the next decade or so

As such, I am certain need comes before BPA in this draft, at least early on. 

[AMPHAR]

It’s crazy talk to not be happy with Burrow throwing to Chase or Pitts. 

Sewell, Chase, or Pitts is an A+ draft. 
 

Probably Slater too. 

 

 

 

[Wraith]

20 hours ago, TJJackson said:

I can't agree with that, Wraith, at least not entirely

There's a guy on our team, a new guy, who had his knee shredded and is currently undergoing rehab work that will probably last for at least the next 9 months, maybe longer

He is in my opinion the single most important player on this team (and eventually will be the highest paid one) and ergo it is of the utmost importance to protect this New Guy far far FAR better than we did in 2020.

This means making the OLine far stronger than it was in 2020.

Both for now and for the next decade or so

As such, I am certain need comes before BPA in this draft, at least early on. 

How many times have we seen the Bengals get sniped on the player we want and then automatically pick the next best player at the position to disastrous effect.  Billy Price when the guy they wanted was Ragnow, Cedric Ogbuehi when they wanted was Peat etc. All the way back to Akili Smith....

Slater is a very good prospect and I would be happy with him 15-20 but not at 5 or 6 and on top of that, not sure he is a better prospect than Leatherwood or Christian Darrisaw and you might be able to pull one of those guys early rd.  2.  Taking Slater and then passing on Chase or Pitts or even Micah Parsons just because you have to have a Tackle rd. 1 is simply the wrong move. Now if you trade back and get extra picks and get Slater, that is a horse of a different color.

[TJJackson]

well, at least you are acknowledging that drafting for need is a factor in this draft

and yes, I'd love to get a trade down as we have many more needs than we can address with the picks we have right now.  I've been Mr Trade Down since we first started discussing the draft in week 3 or so when it became clear that ever the heroics of New Guy werent enough to win

also.....it appears that if we do happen to beat the Ravens, we might slip down as low as pick 10 or 11, depending mostly on how the many 5-10 teams do on their own final games.  Are you good with Slater at 10 or 11?   Same question, but Darrisaw?  Same question, but Vera-Tucker?  Same question, but Cosmi? Looking at multiple mocks right now, it looks like these guys tend to go in the 7-20 range

Leatherwood seems to have dropped considerably

If we fail to obtain a Top Tier FA OG or ORT in free agency (and I mean a player of roughly same caliber as Scherff) I want two OL with the first two picks - one ORT and one OG.  If thats the case I'd be happy with a 1-Slater 2-Leatherwood draft.  And yes, I see the superficial similarity to the disaster that was 1-Oogie 2-Fisher, and pray that isn't the case this time around

[AMPHAR]

I'm guessing there will be no trading back to get Slater.   Once the "gurus" start getting good inside info from unnamed sources he will start to rocket up the mock drafts.

Slater might be the fail/safe for the Bengals,  IF they win and find themselves at 10.

 

[Wraith]

1 hour ago, TJJackson said:

well, at least you are acknowledging that drafting for need is a factor in this draft

and yes, I'd love to get a trade down as we have many more needs than we can address with the picks we have right now.  I've been Mr Trade Down since we first started discussing the draft in week 3 or so when it became clear that ever the heroics of New Guy werent enough to win

also.....it appears that if we do happen to beat the Ravens, we might slip down as low as pick 10 or 11, depending mostly on how the many 5-10 teams do on their own final games.  Are you good with Slater at 10 or 11?   Same question, but Darrisaw?  Same question, but Vera-Tucker?  Same question, but Cosmi? Looking at multiple mocks right now, it looks like these guys tend to go in the 7-20 range

Leatherwood seems to have dropped considerably

If we fail to obtain a Top Tier FA OG or ORT in free agency (and I mean a player of roughly same caliber as Scherff) I want two OL with the first two picks - one ORT and one OG.  If thats the case I'd be happy with a 1-Slater 2-Leatherwood draft.  And yes, I see the superficial similarity to the disaster that was 1-Oogie 2-Fisher, and pray that isn't the case this time around

Trey Smith is the guy at Guard in rd. 2 or 3.  I am more impressed with his tape on a bad team than Wyatt Davis' on a good team.

I think there is a near 0% chance they do not pull a quality guard in Free Agency...thinking Larry Warford is the greatest likely hood. If they do not I 100% agree that they need a top prospect at Tackle and Guard.

[TJJackson]

what do you think of the OL prospects after Sewell?

any worth picking (or at least not reaching excessively far) at pick 11?

I keep readng and watching so much good stuff on Darrisaw, like this https://www.boltsfromtheblue.com/2020/12/8/22163862/chargers-news-nfl-2021-draft-profile-virginia-tech-christian-darrisaw

[ShulaSteakhouse]

 

47 minutes ago, TJJackson said:

what do you think of the OL prospects after SEwell?

any worth picking (or at least not reaching excessively far) at pick 11?

I keep readng and watching so much good stuff on Darrisaw, like this https://www.boltsfromtheblue.com/2020/12/8/22163862/chargers-news-nfl-2021-draft-profile-virginia-tech-christian-darrisaw

Take a look at Creed Humphrey (OK).  

[TJJackson]

I like what I read and the footage I watched on this kid, Steakhouse

however

I dont see Center - err, I specifically mean starting Center - as being a top need this year

This is because even though Hopkins isnt a great player, he remains one of the best offensive lineman we have right now.  As such, he is the last (or second to last) players on the OL that I see as needing replacement in the upcoming offseason

I am hoping we draft one in the 5th or 6th round to develop (hopefully with a new OL coach) but I'd rather replace the players at OG and ORT first for the biggest bang for the buck in terms of overall quality of pass protection for New Guy

[membengal]

Slater, Darrisaw, Cosmi all may be viable in 10-15 range. 

But. there are T prospects who will be really good RT in the pros who can be had in rounds two and three. Check out the MN tackle. He's an absolute monster and I think would maul on the right side ---- Faalele.  Mayfield from Michigan is a round 1 or 2 prospect. Jenkins from Okla State too. Radunz from North Dakota State. Eichenberg from Notre Dame. All of those round 2 or late round 1 prospects.

I promise you --- OT is REALLY deep this year. 

Right now The Draft Network website has 12 OTs in their top 100 on their current big board...

[ShulaSteakhouse]

48 minutes ago, TJJackson said:

I like what I read and the footage I watched on this kid, Steakhouse

however

I dont see Center - err, I specifically mean starting Center - as being a top need this year

This is because even though Hopkins isnt a great player, he remains one of the best offensive lineman we have right now.  As such, he is the last (or second to last) players on the OL that I see as needing replacement in the upcoming offseason

I am hoping we draft one in the 5th or 6th round to develop (hopefully with a new OL coach) but I'd rather replace the players at OG and ORT first for the biggest bang for the buck in terms of overall quality of pass protection for New Guy

Humphrey is rated as the #2 OL by some, but I haven't compared too many services yet.  He can play anywhere on the line.  Could start at G and move over to RT in the future.   There's 2-3 guys still floating around in the top 10 from the o-line (Slater etc..,) 

[TJJackson]

44 minutes ago, membengal said:

Slater, Darrisaw, Cosmi all may be viable in 10-15 range. 

But. there are T prospects who will be really good RT in the pros who can be had in rounds two and three. Check out the MN tackle. He's an absolute monster and I think would maul on the right side ---- Faalele.  Mayfield from Michigan is a round 1 or 2 prospect. Jenkins from Okla State too. Radunz from North Dakota State. Eichenberg from Notre Dame. All of those round 2 or late round 1 prospects.

I promise you --- OT is REALLY deep this year. 

Right now The Draft Network website has 12 OTs in their top 100 on their current big board...

what this is telling me - and correct me if I read this wrong, np - is that you want a ORT taken in rounds 2 or 3

if thats correct, what do you want to occur in r1 if Sewell isnt an option?

[TJJackson]

50 minutes ago, ShulaSteakhouse said:

Humphrey is rated as the #2 OL by some, but I haven't compared too many services yet.  He can play anywhere on the line.  Could start at G and move over to RT in the future.   There's 2-3 guys still floating around in the top 10 from the o-line (Slater etc..,) 

He's a center, so while I tenatively buy that he might be able to play OG, I am not so sure about OT. 

The reason I want the OG in FA rather than the draft is I want a known high quality plug n play starter to ensure we upgrade the OL to the highest degree possible immediately for 2021.  With a draft pick, even a r1 pick, one can never be sure the player will be a starter, or how good the player will play as a starter

as such, I want the OG spot filled in FA and the ORT spot filled in the draft because, tho I desperately want to replace Hart, the weakest link in the 5-man chain right now is imo at OG

 

[membengal]

I want BPA in first wherever they pick. I don’t want them to miss on Sewell and reach for next T (unless next T is rated that high). I don’t want a miss on Ragnow and reach for price situation.

if bengskd board has chase as a top four talent and he’s there if Sewell is gone, then without hesitation you pull that trigger.

[Wraith]

11 hours ago, TJJackson said:

what do you think of the OL prospects after Sewell?

any worth picking (or at least not reaching excessively far) at pick 11?

I keep readng and watching so much good stuff on Darrisaw, like this https://www.boltsfromtheblue.com/2020/12/8/22163862/chargers-news-nfl-2021-draft-profile-virginia-tech-christian-darrisaw

Very deep oline draft, there are good prospects into the third which is one reason you do not have to grab a OT in rd. 1 .... Unless it is Sewell, you need to grab him of he is available.  Even a guy like Walker Little from Stanford, he has dropped off the radar screen but he has great physical attributes and will likely go late 3 maybe even 4.  BTW love Creed and he has position flexibility.

Darrisaw is a true RT and a mauler, alot to like there but only 15-25.

[AMPHAR]

Latest CBS mock has Slater going to Bengals at 4.   Vera-Tucker from USC is a fast riser as well going at 13.

Sewell goes to Jets at 2,  I'm not sure I completely buy that because they took a tackle last year. 

Top 10 consists of: 3 qbs, 2 defenders, 2 OL, 3 TD makers (Chase, Smith, Pitts)

2 CBs going just outside the top 10.  (It could easily be 4 defenders and 1 QB). 

The direction this is going they won't have to reach to grab a tackle or TD maker even if they beat the Ravens.    It's matter of what you prefer and what you think will be there in Round 2.

 

[COB]

Sewell will be there at 3, in my opinion.  I wish we could get him.  Trying to make do with the 2nd or 3rd best option has not worked for us when it comes to linemen lately.  WR is another story!  

[HoosierCat]

 

[HoosierCat]

 

[TJJackson]

Spain appears to be getting worse as the season progresses (full article at:https://www.cincyjungle.com/2020/12/30/22205594/nfl-week-16-bengals-film-room-ol-quinton-spain-vs-texans)

I think the analyst is right - he and Sua Filo should compete for the OLG spot next year, and the ORG needs to be - someone else.  Hopefully Scherff, my dream pick in FA for the last several weeks

I honestly think Hart could be that guy.....possibly.....a decent OTG while lousy imo at ORT

In the meantime, Spain''s experience and versatility - played three spots for us this year - makes him a valuable backup.  Film like the above should keep his price down in the meantime.  We could do a lot worse than Spain if one of our OGs got injured