Offensive Line Draft Talk Thread

[AMPHAR]

10 hours ago, ShulaSteakhouse said:

Sounds about right.  I don't know how they replace 4 guys in one off-season, or even 3, which is more likely.  Top needs in order: OG, OG, RT, DE/DT, C

Center is the last priority, IMO.    We have seen you can build a top Offensive line with a league's bottom Center.   Hopkins is probably good enough for right now but he's not a long term solution, assuming he's getting the calls right.   On that note; as pointed out by Gannon during the broadcast Ravens there are free runners and assignment issues.   Not sure if that goes to the Center making wrong calls.

I think you got to sure up the edges first.    You have to be better at flattening the edge pressure.

 

 

 

 

[COB]

They need veteran players.  Drafting linemen will not work, takes them too long to develop and Burrow will be wrecked by the time they do.  Need vets.  It’s a job for a crafty front office guy.

[HoosierCat]

4 minutes ago, COB said:

They need veteran players.  Drafting linemen will not work, takes them too long to develop and Burrow will be wrecked by the time they do.  Need vets.  It’s a job for a crafty front office guy.

Unfortunately we got this guy:

“For those who say you shouldn’t have signed Bobby Hart, who is going to play right tackle? Who? Oh, maybe you’ll draft one in the third round and he’ll come on. Really? You’re going to bet your season on that? We may still draft somebody. We haven’t had the draft yet. But you just can’t criticize. In our business you have to solve the problem. If you’re not going to play him, tell me who? Trent Brown at 17 million? Really? A seventh-round draft pick? Let go essentially by his team. Really? We can’t go to WalMart and buy off the shelf. A high quality starting right tackle? That doesn’t exist (in free agency). You have to deal in the universe of options you have. We ended up signing eight guys. That’s probably above average. Were they perfect? You’re not going to get perfect. ... There aren’t perfect options out there. We asked Willie Anderson if he could go to a time machine and come back at age 25. We’d love to sign him, but you have to deal in your universe of options. I think the data would say we signed more guys than most in line with the cap that we talked about. If there are surprises out there we’ll try to be flexible and aggressive, but normally there are no surprises out there.”

— Troy “I bang Katie so that qualifies me to make nfl personnel decisions” Blackburn.

[AMPHAR]

The offensive line isn't an easy situation to fix.   Vet guys can be hit or miss too and there's clearly a longer development time with the top college linemen.

 

[COB]

7 hours ago, HoosierCat said:

Unfortunately we got this guy:

“For those who say you shouldn’t have signed Bobby Hart, who is going to play right tackle? Who? Oh, maybe you’ll draft one in the third round and he’ll come on. Really? You’re going to bet your season on that? We may still draft somebody. We haven’t had the draft yet. But you just can’t criticize. In our business you have to solve the problem. If you’re not going to play him, tell me who? Trent Brown at 17 million? Really? A seventh-round draft pick? Let go essentially by his team. Really? We can’t go to WalMart and buy off the shelf. A high quality starting right tackle? That doesn’t exist (in free agency). You have to deal in the universe of options you have. We ended up signing eight guys. That’s probably above average. Were they perfect? You’re not going to get perfect. ... There aren’t perfect options out there. We asked Willie Anderson if he could go to a time machine and come back at age 25. We’d love to sign him, but you have to deal in your universe of options. I think the data would say we signed more guys than most in line with the cap that we talked about. If there are surprises out there we’ll try to be flexible and aggressive, but normally there are no surprises out there.”

— Troy “I bang Katie so that qualifies me to make nfl personnel decisions” Blackburn.

Troy has the explanations/excuses game down pat.  Unfortunately some other teams, in our division, have the build a strong football team game down pat.

[TJJackson]

We do need to draft offensive lineman as well as overpay for average to slightly above average veterans to cover the "right now" needs as well as the future need to protect New Guy

top priority has to be ORT then ORG, with passblocking talent being more desirable than runblocking talent

I think we can get a backup C later, say round 5-6, and it'd be best to get one with longsnapping experience since our longsnapper is eligible for Medicare

[AMPHAR]

The bad news is.....

If you go through the names we've bantered around previous drafts wanting in the first or second rounds for offensive linemen; instant success is not there or very hard to acquire.   

Watching the Bills tonight reminded me of Cody Ford and how they tried to trade up for him.   From a PFF standpoint he's sub 60 and barely better than Jordan.    Tytus Howard not very good,  Hart maybe PFF graded higher.     Andre Dillard is out of the season.  

I'm sure there is a decent ranked starter in there somewhere but it looks like the Bengals got one of the few in Jonah Williams.

Could very easily be in a Colts/Luck situation in which their line sucked.  They invested in it first rounders, but by the time the developed and got a true impact Linemen in Nelson....Luck already had enough after missing several starts over multiple seasons.

Even if they scout perfectly.   How quickly this line develops is also dependent on factors outside their control like actual quality of the draft class.

Is there a Quentin Nelson line prospect sitting in the top 10 of this year's draft class?  I hope so, but doubt it. 

 

 

 

 

 

[HoosierCat]

Yup. Last April’s No. 4 pick OT Andrew Thomas has a pff grade of 57. The draft is a crapshoot and OL is no exception. It used to be considered a safe bet, but it’s not anymore.

FA would be a better bet but unlike the Bengals, most teams don’t make a habit of letting talented OL walk.

[AMPHAR]

Mekcia Becton from Louisville was reportedly making an impact  (I think he got dinged) for the Jets.   So there's hope.

I'm targeting Alex Leatherwood from Bama.    He decided to come back he was projected near top 10 last year.    Like Jonah Williams he has been the top tackle in his class for a very long time.    Coming out of high school he was ranked higher than a lot of recent first rounders including Andrew Thomas and Becton.

They've had good success from Bama.   The only downside is these guys go through a meat grinder down there and it seems a ton of Bama draft picks need a year off.   All of our recent Bama draft picks pretty much had a red shirt year.

Might as well as turn this thread into Lineman draft talk. 

[membengal]

I no longer can edit the initial post to change the title, but maybe Hoosier can.

[HoosierCat]

Have at it!

[COB]

As always, World War 1 is instructive.

As in all wars, weapons technology had outpaced tactics.  Thus, the spectre of wave after wave of men rushing towards machine guns and being cut to pieces.  
 

The leadership, as always, had not adjusted their tactics to the new technology, and young men paid the price.  

There was tactical planning that went along the lines of, “If we throw enough men at it, eventually we’ll have bodies all the way to the gun and we’ll capture it.”

The war was so horrendous that a great power, France, essentially lost their will to wage war.  They were broken by it.

The Brown family is doing what the military leaders in World War 1 did.  Just using the same tactics, getting killed season after season, running guys out there again and again, seemingly incapable of adopting a new operating strategy that might yield better results.  
 

Sorry Joe Burrow, you have to climb out of that trench and run towards that machine gun!

Where does that leave us fans?  Who are we in all this?  All I can say is, Viva Le France!

[membengal]

The bigger issue, all good and bad jokes aside, is that simply saying "draft a lineman" is very much hit and miss. Looks like they have gotten Jonah WIlliams right (fingers crossed) but as was pointed out above, even top 10 O-line picks carry their share of busts and risk.  The need to pony up for a legit RT and RG in FA is my view.  Players they know can block and have blocked successfully in the NFL already. Free up their draft for DL or WR if those players are ranked higher when they pick and not reach. And then draft several o-lineman rounds 2-6 who the can groom over time and provide depth while they learn. 

They did spend in FA last year. They can do it again. Hit Oline this time. 

[HoosierCat]

My fear is that after the way FA blew up in their faces this year they’ll turtle up and not be willing to spend money next year.

[AMPHAR]

They’ll need to drop some coin on their own guys this year or they’ll tread water.  Lawson, Bates, Jackson.  Not sure when all their deals are up but they’ll be significant.  
 

It would be nice to add a decent starter along the line from FA. 

[ShulaSteakhouse]

13 hours ago, HoosierCat said:

Yup. Last April’s No. 4 pick OT Andrew Thomas has a pff grade of 57. The draft is a crapshoot and OL is no exception. It used to be considered a safe bet, but it’s not anymore.

FA would be a better bet but unlike the Bengals, most teams don’t make a habit of letting talented OL walk.

All the more reason why you need good coaching in this league.  You have to out-smart, out-scheme and out-discipline other teams.   DE's/DL's and LB's are so freaky these days,  it's likely a reason teams are throwing the ball all the time, and why Dalton's game was all about getting rid of the ball quickly (which also resulted in a lot of turnovers).

[TJJackson]

I realize that drafting at any position is hit or miss, so you draft more than one lineman (just as they drafted more than one LB this past draft) to gain the possibility of a hit.  with a some luck, maybe 2 hits.

as someone said earlier in this thread, good lineman are hard to find, and teams arent generally letting these players go....so I dont think you'll see quality OL in FA much.  I dont count the ORG we picked up as "quality"

[Stripes]

They definitely need to draft more than one, preferably early. They just can't repeat the Ogbuehi/Fisher fiasco. That double-failure alone set them back so damned much.

[ShulaSteakhouse]

Time to start acquiring draft picks for the future, find ways to acquire more 1-4 round picks.  Edit: I forgot to mention John Ross, who is asking for a trade now.  So you have Glenn, Ross and Dunlap showing signs of discontent with Taylor and his staff so far.  Geno is an unknown, he's been quiet, and quietly ineffective.  

I think Taylor is a dead duck but I gotta think someone will give-up something for Ross and a draft pick that might be worthwhile.  I post this here because they have to find a way to acquire lineman of good quality with extra picks, on both sides, but of course the 0-line is paramount.  

That said, they could really use a Myles Garrett/Watt/Bosa type at DE, a dominating player, or at DT, in addition to a Pro-Bowl caliber RT and RG - and they will need to acquire all of that by next season if they want to turn things around, along with firing Taylor hopefully (but that's a big ? mark still).

 

 

[HoosierCat]

The speed at which this team is falling apart internally this year is breathtaking. I’ve never seen anything quite like it, even in the dregs of the 90s.

[HoosierCat]

Yup.

 

[COB]

This team could burn to the ground, I still wouldn’t expect the Brown family to do jack shit about it.  They’ve got a business plan and they’ll just keep going, cashing those checks.  Pretty great setup (for them) that they have.  

[volcom69]

So nobody seems to want to play for this coach. Sounds like a great hire!

Fire these guys now, nothing good has come from this hire at all! 

[membengal]

I don't hear a lot of bitching from new players. This is holdovers bitching. I am not a ZT backer, clearly, but I am also not gonna render my garments over aging vets who are being phased out being a sign of a full scale revolt. The bigger fault is they didn't jettison them before this. Course, with Covid off-season, that was probably harder. Should have dealt them last trade deadline, of course, but there you are. 

Dunlap has been atrocious this year. Atkins has not registered any stats at all in 37 snaps so far. Ross is...well, if you are gonna cry about Ross at this point, have at it. 

[ShulaSteakhouse]

 

5 hours ago, COB said:

This team could burn to the ground, I still wouldn’t expect the Brown family to do jack shit about it.  They’ve got a business plan and they’ll just keep going, cashing those checks.  Pretty great setup (for them) that they have.  

Well that's the "real" problem.  And a coach with a set of cajones would be raising hell with the Brown family to get him what he needs and start stock-piling draft picks as trading chips or simply for acquring new players., and clearing-out some cap space for FA upgrades next year.  Granted that may still happen, but I'm doubting it will.

This is where HC's come to die, their careers any ways, I said that when they hired Taylor, what a naive fool he is.  Marvin was naive as well, but used his success as leverage against Brown to make trades and sign/draft the players he wanted, to the extent he could at least.  

Taylor resigns guys like Bobby  Hart.  He has no idea what he's gotten himself into. His career is literally hanging by a thread at this point, at least as a HC.  Damn fool.