Bengals @ Texans Wild Card Weekend Pregame Thread

[volcom69]

Marvin is going nowhere no matter how many things we sign.

That being said i noticed this year, the defense improved big time, while offense went in the opposite direction. As far as im concerned Gruden can go, he promised alot when he was hired and havnt seen any of it. This is the worst WCO i have ever seen. Oh and how the hell do you not throw the ball to AJ, or hell you dont even look his way the whole first half, im sorry but coaches should be fired for that crap!

I know guys say Dalton is going to be fine, but from what im seeing he looked like he was getting worse as the season went on. I understand the whole #2 WR, but that dosnt explain his horrible pocket presence, the fact that he cant keep his eyes down the field when the rush is on. Dalton missed 11 TDs, this year because he did not see a wide open guy standing there. His deep passes are still not great, and those are throws that wins or loses games, and tonight he lost it because he could not hit the deep ball. I read cincy jungle, and reading some of those comments that were said on twitter just really have me thinking. They better surround him with the most talented team if they want to go anywhere with Dalton. Oh and please fire Gruden cant stand his offense anymore.

i am not quite ready to give up on datlon yet. yes he needs a real rb and a legit# 2. hopefully sanu can help. i will say today i starting having doubts about dalton. completely turned on gruden. your 100% right! gruden has not done anything he said he would do. maybe he's even hurting andy's growth as a player.

Im not ready to give up on Dalton either, but at the sametime they better surround him with alot of talent, and an awesome running game. I just want to see better pocket presence from him, he misses way to many wide open guys, and he did tonight. If that means a new QB coach, or new OC then so be it, but Dalton is going to have to get better in that aspect. No im not giving up on Dalton.

Maybe its time for a new playbook, or something different, because what they are doing is not working!

[volcom69]

Nice did you listen to Lap? I listen to them everyweek, i cant stand the broacasters anymore. If so did you hear Lap killing the bengals for not getting the ball to AJ in the first half?

I was driving home from South Bend so I could pick up 1530 for Q1. Started to lose the signal in Q2 so I flipped around until I found the national broadcast. Was great to hear the home calls for a while!

I have sirus radio so its nice getting to listen to them everyweek, Lap tells it how it is and i like that.

[Tommy]

Go Colts!

[Stripes]

Dalton sucked today, but I'm not going to scream for a replacement. He has put up numbers impressive enough to warrant his continued development within this franchise, and I am definitely not interested in this year's QB draft class. The bright side is that most of his problems do seem coachable (if the Bengals have the ability to actually coach him). His pocket awareness will improve with experience, and hopefully the same can be said of his ability to make reads downfield and then decisions with the ball. His deep ball inaccuracy strikes me as [partially] the product of AJ facing constant tight coverage, and that can be alleviated some by improvement from the other receivers. Hopefully Sanu and Jones can handle it. Maybe Gresham can too, if he can figure out how to get away from all of his infuriating habits.

I like the offensive line moving forward, if Andre can be retained. Running back remains a distinct weakness, including the starter. BJGE wasn't as terrible this year as I expected him to be, but I do think his string of productive games was mostly the result of improved play on the interior offensive line (specifically Robinson and Zeitler).

Maualuga isn't good enough. He is a bottom tier MLB on an otherwise top tier defense, and that cannot be allowed to continue. Either move Burfict in or draft/sign someone else. Lawson is average. I liked Howard a lot but can't say I maintain that confidence post-injury. We'll see. The secondary is shaky. Leon Hall was outright wonderful after returning from injury, and had I think the best [shortened] season of his career thus far. Reggie Nelson proved me wrong after doubting his value in the offseason by having a very solid year. SS and 2nd corner are distinct weaknesses though. Obviously Kirkpatrick might help significantly with that if he can amount to anything. The defensive line should remain the team's defining strength, especially if MJ is resigned and Still/Thompson grow.

Top draft priorities, in my opinion (in any order):

RB

SS

LB

As for the coaches...

Marvin will continue to be a strong motivator and dopey game manager/game planner. That's what he's been for 10 years and it won't change. I am sick of him and would support his departure (primarily because a very logical replacement is soon to follow him on this list). It definitely won't happen though.

I'm not impressed with Gruden. I like that he does show balls sometimes, running gadget plays and [usually] maintaining decent balance. His offenses have not done a good job of playing to the opponent's weaknesses though, as far as I've seen. His gameplans don't seem to vary that much game-by-game, and that leads to streakiness dependent entirely on the players' execution.

Zimmer is awesome and should be our head coach. I have no idea how well he would perform in that position, but I wish he'd be given the chance. The major problem inherent to any coaching change is continuity, and the Bengals have this opportunity to almost entirely skip over that. It won't happen though, so whatever. He deserves his chance somewhere, and I have to imagine he'll get it eventually. Maybe sooner than we'd like.

[cincyhokie]

Dalton sucked today, but I'm not going to scream for a replacement. He has put up numbers impressive enough to warrant his continued development within this franchise, and I am definitely not interested in this year's QB draft class. The bright side is that most of his problems do seem coachable (if the Bengals have the ability to actually coach him). His pocket awareness will improve with experience, and hopefully the same can be said of his ability to make reads downfield and then decisions with the ball. His deep ball inaccuracy strikes me as [partially] the product of AJ facing constant tight coverage, and that can be alleviated some by improvement from the other receivers. Hopefully Sanu and Jones can handle it. Maybe Gresham can too, if he can figure out how to get away from all of his infuriating habits.

I like the offensive line moving forward, if Andre can be retained. Running back remains a distinct weakness, including the starter. BJGE wasn't as terrible this year as I expected him to be, but I do think his string of productive games was mostly the result of improved play on the interior offensive line (specifically Robinson and Zeitler).

Maualuga isn't good enough. He is a bottom tier MLB on an otherwise top tier defense, and that cannot be allowed to continue. Either move Burfict in or draft/sign someone else. Lawson is average. I liked Howard a lot but can't say I maintain that confidence post-injury. We'll see. The secondary is shaky. Leon Hall was outright wonderful after returning from injury, and had I think the best [shortened] season of his career thus far. Reggie Nelson proved me wrong after doubting his value in the offseason by having a very solid year. SS and 2nd corner are distinct weaknesses though. Obviously Kirkpatrick might help significantly with that if he can amount to anything. The defensive line should remain the team's defining strength, especially if MJ is resigned and Still/Thompson grow.

Top draft priorities, in my opinion (in any order):

RB

SS

LB

Good points. All in all, I feel alot better about going into next season than last year. A stud RB will be had. Safety, LB, and maybe even a DE threat should be targeted in the draft. FA veteran WR?

We have an extra high 2nd round pick. We can do alot of damage with a pick like that. That's HUGE.

There's alot less holes to fill. THAT is a good thing. Good season, all. From 3-5 to playoffs was pretty impressive.

[cincyhokie]

Well, if we thought the Bengals play was embarassing...the Vikings are making us fans feel better about our situation.

[COB]

Gruden had a gameplan. Unfortunatley for him, he also had Gresham. The first drive, 2nd down and Dalton throws a little high to Gresham, but it hits him in the hands. Gresham is so busy worrying about getting hit that he just drops it. Next play, third down, Gresham is targeted again, and again he fails. A defensive back got a hand in, and Gresham absolutely lost. He can't fight for the ball.

Our chance at grabbing momentum, at striking first, all thrown away because Germain f**king Gresham can't play hard football. He's just not tough enough. The announcers on tv said it well, near the end of the game they showed him unable to beat his defender and they said, "That's a battle Gresham has lost all day." Trade him for a mid round first and we'd be money ahead, get rid of that last CBA deal and get a guy on a new CBA deal, and get a better player to boot. We just have to find an NFL team that doesn't have a vcr, doesn't have scouts who watch our games, and doesn't know what the hell they're doing. Yes, someone call the Raiders.

[cincyhokie]

Gruden had a gameplan. Unfortunatley for him, he also had Gresham. The first drive, 2nd down and Dalton throws a little high to Gresham, but it hits him in the hands. Gresham is so busy worrying about getting hit that he just drops it. Next play, third down, Gresham is targeted again, and again he fails. A defensive back got a hand in, and Gresham absolutely lost. He can't fight for the ball.

Our chance at grabbing momentum, at striking first, all thrown away because Germain f**king Gresham can't play hard football. He's just not tough enough. The announcers on tv said it well, near the end of the game they showed him unable to beat his defender and they said, "That's a battle Gresham has lost all day." Trade him for a mid round first and we'd be money ahead, get rid of that last CBA deal and get a guy on a new CBA deal, and get a better player to boot. We just have to find an NFL team that doesn't have a vcr, doesn't have scouts who watch our games, and doesn't know what the hell they're doing. Yes, someone call the Raiders.

^^^^^this

[Bengalsrock1969]

Well, if we thought the Bengals play was embarassing...the Vikings are making us fans feel better about our situation.

yea...but their crappy quarterback tonight was their backup while our crappy quarterback is our starter.

[Sea Ray]

It is difficult to be too mad at Gruden after this game. I think he had a game plan that could have

won the game if only the players had come through in the clutch. I'm still hopeful for Dalton's future.

I put this loss on the players. I know meaningful trades in the NFL are extremely rare, but I'd like to see

Gresham put on the market. I wonder what he could bring in return. He has brought his inability to perform in big games

here from his college days.

I think you're being too hard on Gresham. Almost every ball thrown to him was a contested catch with a defenders hand ontop of Gresham's. In a word, Dalton was forcing the ball to him. Others were poorly thrown by Dalton making Gresham have to make circus catches. There were a lot more goats here than Gresham. How 'bout Maualuga? How good would Dalton have looked if our TEs and WRs were as wide open as Daniels and Foster were?

I thought I saw Hue on the sidelines with a headset on. Can anyone else confirm this?

[ShulaSteakhouse]

Words can't express the disappointment I have in Dalton right now, just a complete failure, and they better bring in some competition for him next year.

Missing an open AJ in the end zone was the icing on a sloppy cake - if he isn't turning the ball over, he's throwing poor passes 50% of the time and making bad decisions, or taking too long to do so.

He is a mess, I don't care about weak WR depth or a poor interior o-line, he had chances to win that game today and blew it time and time again with mistakes.

The defense couldn't get off the field the 1st half and didn't help things much, but they did enough that a competent offense could've taken that game.

It's just pathetic what Gruden's done the last month, honestly he should be fired his offense was so pathetically bad - just look at the #'s, someone has to be held accountable for the complete nose dive on offense.

I think a focus should be on drafting or signing another QB as a priority.

[ShulaSteakhouse]

Andy Dalton = Mark Sanchez

[Scottishbengal]

Absolutely gutted ..... lost a game by 6 points when we played so so badly offensively.

If the O had just played a wee bit better we'd still be in the tournament but they've really fallen flat this past few weeks. Hugely disappointing. Dalton was poor, Gresham was poor, AJ wasn't targetted 1st half.

Hope we pick up a very good No2 WR in the draft.

Kudos to Marvin for giving us back to back play-off seasons for the first time in god knows how long, but without a single play-off win it's got to be time for him to fall on his sword and resign. Hue Jackson or Mike Zimmer to take the HC job for me.

[volcom69]

Andy Dalton = Mark Sanchez

That's what worries me! Better start now resigning some defensive guys, because without a good defense, and a running game he worries me. Hope he proves me wrong next year.

[membengal]

Gruden had a gameplan. Unfortunatley for him, he also had Gresham. The first drive, 2nd down and Dalton throws a little high to Gresham, but it hits him in the hands. Gresham is so busy worrying about getting hit that he just drops it. Next play, third down, Gresham is targeted again, and again he fails. A defensive back got a hand in, and Gresham absolutely lost. He can't fight for the ball.

Our chance at grabbing momentum, at striking first, all thrown away because Germain f**king Gresham can't play hard football. He's just not tough enough. The announcers on tv said it well, near the end of the game they showed him unable to beat his defender and they said, "That's a battle Gresham has lost all day." Trade him for a mid round first and we'd be money ahead, get rid of that last CBA deal and get a guy on a new CBA deal, and get a better player to boot. We just have to find an NFL team that doesn't have a vcr, doesn't have scouts who watch our games, and doesn't know what the hell they're doing. Yes, someone call the Raiders.

I like pretty much all parts of this post. As bad as Dalton was at times in the game yesterday, I also had a hard time not wondering how it might have been different if Gresham does his job and catches the passes thrown to him to start the game. Move the chains, get Dalton in a rhythm, and maybe its different. He dropped balls all year too. It has been hugely frustrating.

[membengal]

Shula...there is no help in the draft at QB this year. None. Horrible class. On top of that, I don't want to waste another year or two getting a rookie QB back up to speed. For better or worse, this is Dalton's team.

The coaches need to help Dalton be better, and Dalton has to put in the time to be better. He should be a good enough game manager for this team to win with that defense, including playoff games.

[membengal]

Andy Dalton = Mark Sanchez

Ok. Mark Sanchez was in two AFC title games. Dalton can be a good enough manager to do the same, with that defense. He simply has to be better. That's on him and the coaches to make that happen.

[cincy9275]

we are all disappointed in this teams play last night. no way in hell is it all daltons fault, he missed a wide open green. i also seen green drop a td. gresham drop every thing thrown at him. no pressure at all from our defense. inconsistent play calling on both sides of the ball. could not stop the run. we could not get them off the field on 3rd down. fact is we lost to a better team period. yea it's hard to swallow but it is what it is!

lets not forget dalton made plays all year for us finish 7-1 and make the playoffs. how about the pass he made at the end of the stoolers game? the fact he's done what no other qb in this teams history has ever done. yes he has areas he needs to improve in, but so does a lot of players on this team. this is a very young team with a bright future. lets add a couple more pieces and continue the progress that we have had for the past 2 seasons.

[combatbengal]

Dalton and Gresham's play were poor all game but I'm wondering if we actually had a game plan or even prepared to play. The run game was working and we went away from that! Why? We ddin't throw to AJ or Hawkins at all in the first half!! Why? Dalton missed open WR's all game and there were a few times that he had open field to run for positive yardage but he didn't! The entire game made me sick and ruined my entire weekend!!

[volcom69]

Dalton and Gresham's play were poor all game but I'm wondering if we actually had a game plan or even prepared to play. The run game was working and we went away from that! Why? We ddin't throw to AJ or Hawkins at all in the first half!! Why? Dalton missed open WR's all game and there were a few times that he had open field to run for positive yardage but he didn't! The entire game made me sick and ruined my entire weekend!!

I question alot that Gruden does. They were avg 6 yards per carry, only problem is he didn't do it enough. If Dalton is struggling don't throw the ball all game help him out. He ran 1 time on 3 play drives, and it was always first down. I don't get either.

He should be fired for not going to green sooner! Lap was killing the bengals last night and said he blames everyone for this! Dalton did not look at Green at all in the first half, and he was singled with Jjoe! Lap said Green was standing there a couple times with his arms up looking for a pass. This offense has more problems then just a #2 WR, they look lost and incomplete.

[cincy9275]

Dalton and Gresham's play were poor all game but I'm wondering if we actually had a game plan or even prepared to play. The run game was working and we went away from that! Why? We ddin't throw to AJ or Hawkins at all in the first half!! Why? Dalton missed open WR's all game and there were a few times that he had open field to run for positive yardage but he didn't! The entire game made me sick and ruined my entire weekend!!

I question alot that Gruden does. They were avg 6 yards per carry, only problem is he didn't do it enough. If Dalton is struggling don't throw the ball all game help him out. He ran 1 time on 3 play drives, and it was always first down. I don't get either.

He should be fired for not going to green sooner! Lap was killing the bengals last night and said he blames everyone for this! Dalton did not look at Green at all in the first half, and he was singled with Jjoe! Lap said Green was standing there a couple times with his arms up looking for a pass. This offense has more problems then just a #2 WR, they look lost and incomplete.

i agree gruden was terrible. you don't run a play for our best player the whole 1st half. you abandon a effective running game. you keep calling plays for a TE who could catch a cold last night. he failed badly and should be held accountable for it.

[ShulaSteakhouse]

Andy Dalton = Mark Sanchez

Ok. Mark Sanchez was in two AFC title games. Dalton can be a good enough manager to do the same, with that defense. He simply has to be better. That's on him and the coaches to make that happen.

I guess I just don't have any confidence left that Dalton is even capable of doing that, I don't think he is even as good as Sanchez in a few critical areas. I think if you get an opportunity to replace him, you do it, or at least give him an open competition next year if possible. Work with him, but don't coddle him.

[ShulaSteakhouse]

From ProFootballFocus.com:

He doesn’t know what to do when pressure gets in his face.

The Bengals hid this well during the regular season. He faced pressure on only 25.7% of plays — fourth-lowest of 38 qualifying quarterbacks — within an offense that saw him get rid of the ball in 2.5 seconds or under on 60.8% of drop-backs (only Matt Hasselbeck and Chad Henne had a higher percentage). Yet in the playoffs you can’t hide flaws so easily, and with the Texans aggressive defense came pressure on 40% of drop-backs.

He did not respond well.

Here he took two sacks, scrambled twice and completed only 3 of 10 attempts for 11 yards. Or 1.1 yards per attempt. There are more questions than answers with Dalton at this stage of his career, as his second postseason game highlighted.

And here is another player they just need to let walk: (from same article)

Of all the middle linebackers we’ve graded this year none has come out as poorly as Rey Maualuga (-3.4). He walked away from the regular season with the lowest grade of all inside linebackers, chiefly because of his problems in coverage.

So, with this being the playoffs he had a chance to show the world that we were wrong about him. Instead, he simply reinforced what we’ve been saying all year. In coverage he gave up three first downs on five balls thrown into his coverage, with a drop also saving him once, while he also missed a tackle on another. In the run game he made a nice play with 4:36 to go in the first quarter, beating James Casey to his inside for a tackle for a short gain, but outside of that did very little. We all saw how Wade Smith handled him on the touchdown run, but on the play before that it was Ben Jones who simply diverted him away. Indicative of the problems he continues to have at the second level.

These are two players that are constantly holding that team back from reaching its goals and potential, you can't have the worst ILB in the league, and expect to win playoff games.

[volcom69]

I read the same thing and it shows. Whenever teams pressure Dalton he gets happy feet and dosnt know to run, or get out of pocket, but his eyes are never down field, so he just takes the sacks. He has also missed 11 TDs this year to wide open guys, because he is not scanning the field. I don't know if you can fix that or not, but he needs to figure something out. He's an awesome QB when things are perfect, but things are not perfect every game.

[Sea Ray]

Gruden had a gameplan. Unfortunatley for him, he also had Gresham. The first drive, 2nd down and Dalton throws a little high to Gresham, but it hits him in the hands. Gresham is so busy worrying about getting hit that he just drops it. Next play, third down, Gresham is targeted again, and again he fails. A defensive back got a hand in, and Gresham absolutely lost. He can't fight for the ball.

Our chance at grabbing momentum, at striking first, all thrown away because Germain f**king Gresham can't play hard football. He's just not tough enough. The announcers on tv said it well, near the end of the game they showed him unable to beat his defender and they said, "That's a battle Gresham has lost all day." Trade him for a mid round first and we'd be money ahead, get rid of that last CBA deal and get a guy on a new CBA deal, and get a better player to boot. We just have to find an NFL team that doesn't have a vcr, doesn't have scouts who watch our games, and doesn't know what the hell they're doing. Yes, someone call the Raiders.

I like pretty much all parts of this post. As bad as Dalton was at times in the game yesterday, I also had a hard time not wondering how it might have been different if Gresham does his job and catches the passes thrown to him to start the game. Move the chains, get Dalton in a rhythm, and maybe its different. He dropped balls all year too. It has been hugely frustrating.

The difference in the game yesterday was RB-TE vs LB dynamic. Say what you want about Gresham but he would have had a great day if he were as wide open as Owen Daniels was. Don't you think Dalton's day would have been different if he had a back like Foster to dump the ball off to especially if he could run for 20 yds before getting touched? Our ability to cover TEs and RBs in the passing game killed us and I'd like to hear from Marvin and Zim as to how that happened. That led to sustained drives for Hou and took away opportunities for our meager offense to get the ball.