Official Lockout Thread

[ArmyBengal]

Even if I could care less about the teams playing in the HOF game, I will usually tune in for at least a portion of it.

Why ?? Simple.

It's the start of the football season, my favorite time of the year !!!

[HoosierCat]

Well, for gawd knows what reason, just as a deal seemed to be coming together, the Eight Circuit ruled in the owners' favor that the lockout is legal. At least, it's legal for now, but might not be next year, they left that question open.

Also, according to Mort, the ruling says that the owners can not lock out free agents and rookies because there's no employment relationship.

Hopefully this doesn't short-circuit negotiations...

[walzav29]

I believe the deal will be done by the 15th. I wouldn't be surprised they announce a tentative agreement tonight.

[HoosierCat]

ESPN provides a bit more clarity on the pros and cons of the ruling.

The substance of the ruling was not a surprise to either owners or players and is not expected to change the substance of the negotiations. However, the timing of the ruling was surprising because it was foreshadowed in previous court opinions; Judge Kermit Bye had said last month that neither side would be completely happy with the ruling.

The ruling keeps the lockout in place, but players have the ability to go back to federal court in September and re-file their antitrust case. In addition, rookies and all free agents can seek relief from Nelson through an evidentiary hearing to determine if the lockout applies to all players without contracts.

The league's negotiations in New York were taking a short break Friday morning as players and owners printed copies of the court ruling for review. Talks are expected to resume thereafter.

[Scottishbengal]

when few fans have high expectations, the better off they will be when next season rolls around.

Sure, the season is probably done before it starts, but I want to see these kids play early and often.

Surely the same applies to all other teams as well. It's a s**t situation for EVERY set of NFL players not just the Bengals, whether we get going next week, week one, week three or week ten it's an even playing field compared to the other franchises??

[BengalByTheBay]

when few fans have high expectations, the better off they will be when next season rolls around.

Sure, the season is probably done before it starts, but I want to see these kids play early and often.

Surely the same applies to all other teams as well. It's a s**t situation for EVERY set of NFL players not just the Bengals, whether we get going next week, week one, week three or week ten it's an even playing field compared to the other franchises??

For some, yes. But, I don't think the Colts or Patriots are going to have the same growing pains as the Bengals with an entrenched starter, the same coaches and the same offensive system for the past several years....

[ArmyBengal]

That was kind of my point.

While every team will struggle to one degree or another, minus being a little more out of shape than other years, those with veterans will surely fare better than those like the Bengals who are looking at starting a rookie QB with no OTA's and a limited camp, as well as having a new OC trying to implement a new scheme.

While I will actually enjoy seeing Dalton get the starting job from the jump, my expectations for the 2011 season are very tempered.

No thought of playoffs and beyond, no thought of him being rookie of the year, no much of anything outside of learning, getting experience, and preparing for the 2012 season. To be honest, i'm ok with that knowing the team has acknowledged that being the best course of action.

As to the lockout itself, I expect it to get done sooner rather than later as well.

[Sea Ray]

ESPN provides a bit more clarity on the pros and cons of the ruling.

Should we even listen to ESPN anymore? Wasn't it their talking heads that told us Judge Nelson's 89 page ruling was appeal proof and likely couldn't be overturned?

[HoosierCat]

It's what PFT was saying, just without the legalese.

Apparently, talks have been tabled until Monday. Scuttlebutt (read: Florio) says that the latest snag is rookie contract lengths. Owners want mandatory 5 year contracts for first round picks, players want 4 year deals like all the other rounds.

[HoosierCat]

Per espn, it appears they are shooting for a July 21 start to the offseason.

• July 1 (July 21) -- Educate the clubs on the new league rules and allow voluntary training for teams and agents.

• July 5 (July 25) -- Sign undrafted rookies, as well as give free agents a chance to re-sign with their teams.

• July 8 (July 28) -- League year starts and free agency begins.

• July 13 (Aug. 2) -- Rosters must be set at 90 players.

• July 14 (Aug. 3) -- Deadline for restricted free agents to sign offer sheets.

• July 18 (Aug. 7 ) -- A four-day match period for teams to match restricted free-agent offer sheets.

• July 23 (Aug 12) -- Deadline for rookies to sign contracts (not yet agreed upon).

• July 27 (Aug. 16) -- Signing period for restricted free agents ends, as does the signing period for franchise and transition tenders.

• Aug. 9 (Aug. 29) -- Deadline for players to report to earned credit for an accrued season toward free agency.

[HoosierCat]

Best. Lockout. Update. Ever.

/>http://kissingsuzykolber.uproxx.com/2011/07/and-now-a-brief-update-on-the-lockout-negotiations.html

(warning: profanity.)

[HoosierCat]

Deal on rookie wage scale reached.

/>http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/07/14/rookie-wage-scale-is-done/

[volcom69]

Deal on rookie wage scale reached.

/>http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/07/14/rookie-wage-scale-is-done/

Well this can only be a good thing, there should be no reason why training camp cant get started on time now.

Next couple of weeks are going to be crazy, free agency should be fun, and crazy this year!!

[HoosierCat]

We could have a deal by tomorrow or Saturday.

/>http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/07/14/stunning-momentum-puts-settlement-on-fast-track/

[COB]

Looks promising. Cut Chad.

[johnswahoo]

I suppose the only person who is dreading the collective bargaining agreement is Mr.Brown. I read where there is a spending cap of appx 120 million. However there is also going to be a cap where a team MUST spend such as 90% of the cap. So in this case, the Bengals would be forced to spend 108 million. I don't know what the penalties are for not spending, perhaps they would be forced to pay into a fund and bring their total up to 108. I am also reading there will be a 1 year exemption to this.

This is good news and it could be bad news. One of the biggest issues this team has isn't the fact they don't have talent, it's depth and drafting. That issue comes from scouting and this team doesn't put any money in this category to begin with and based in the info coming out of the meetings he won't be spending on it any time soon. The good news, there might be some new players on the squad by default...

[HoosierCat]

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/6768521/nfl-lockout-owners-players-moving-cba-settlement-source-says

Looks like it's finally done.

[jjakq27]

Looks like they've come to an agreement on the salary cap and the rookie wage scale. Glad to see that part added to the contract.

/>http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/6768521/nfl-lockout-owners-players-back-force-talks

[walzav29]

Congratulations are in order if they don't miss a preseason game. When you think of the disaster of MLB losing a season, NHL, and NBA missing part of their seasons. If the NFL doesn't even miss a preseason game that will be a phenomenal feat, and another reason why the NFL is the premiere professional sport.

[HoosierCat]

Per PFT, the owners have given up on the "right of first refusal" concept for FAs. Instead, there will be a 3-day window before FA starts that teams can try to sign their own guys.

/>http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/07/15/owners-give-up-right-of-first-refusal-idea/

[membengal]

If nothing else, this accelerated free agency period may finally hasten that coronary so many wish on Mikey B. Whatever else Mikey B and his family are, "fast" isn't usually the adjective to describe their decision making and negotiation process.

[jjakq27]

Sounds like the end is near. Can't wait for all of the kiss-and-makeup press conferences that will surely follow. The good thing is that it sounds like it will be a long contract (10 yrs?) so hopefully this won't happen again for a long time.

/>http://cincinnati.com/blogs/bengals/2011/07/19/whitworth-sees-end-of-lockout-in-sight/

Bengals player rep Andrew Whitworth, who got back in town this past weekend, will be doing some more traveling today. He will be heading to Washington as NFLPA player representatives will meet tomorrow to discuss the proposed new collective bargaining agreement. There are reports that they might vote on the new CBA tomorrow if all the work in New York between lawyers for the players and owners is completed in time.

NFL owners will meet in Atlanta on Thursday.

“I think with anything coming to an end you want to see the details and the ins and outs of the deal along with figuring out what the new rules are,” Whitworth said.

[thedon]

THE DON'S

Crystal Ball

2011 SEASON

END OF LOCKOUT QUICK HITS

By DonCanabis/TheDon

Analyst/Godfather

CONGRATS TO THE 2010 DON’S PREDICTION LEAGUE CHAMPIONS

*** Mlmpetert from thewarpath.net ***

*** Sparky from detroitlionsforum.com ***

Ok, it finally looks like this stupid lockout will be over if off course Manning, Brees, Jackson and others can put personal greed aside and we might have a normal season after all with the biggest loss being having to endure 5 months of complete football garbage from the media, players and NFL personnel.

So, before training camp starts and 3 day Free Agency and all the Madness that’s going to happen in the next few days I wanted to share some quick hits of what’s going on, what’s to come and the bad moves the league is making for the future of the league. I promise not to bore you with the same washed up topics we’ve been over fed the past few months.

• The Biggest Winners of the Lockout!! There are actually three, NHL, NBA and Women’s Soccer. First of I know the NBA is having its own lockout but not having to compete with the NFL offseason gave all of these 3 sports and leagues their biggest audiences in years, heck we even got a riot after a final when was the last time that happened!. Many of you even I didn’t knew the Women’s team had actually already won 2 World Cup Championship but for the coverage they got, it actually felt like what they were doing was something that was never done before. I don’t even know if they even made the sports news the last time they actually won it. And at the end of the day by ending the lockout it will give the NBA some ground and the need to sit and negotiate.
  
  
• The Rookie Wage Scale we all knew it needed to be done with the amount of bust teams gets every draft and the astronomical amount of money they were making without even playing one snap was a necessity for the future of all franchises you can’t expect a team to advance when one bad pick in the top 5 can set your team back financially and competitively 5 years. It just became ridiculous when nobody wanted to have anything to do with the number 1 pick it became a burden not a reward.
  What nobody has asked themselves is could this become a problem with the 2011 draft class? Can we not expect a few draft brats suing the NFL induced by their agents saying that the new CBA is taking away the earnings they should be entitled for based on what previous players got in the past by being selected in the same spot or same position? Can we actually assume agents who live and breathe for getting these young talents and getting that huge rookie contract without having to maintain a good business relationship for years? Are we supposed to believe they won’t jump when the NFL cuts their commission by half? Think about it for a second can this actually be over or are we just in the tip of the iceberg.
  
  
• The NFL Safety Committee I truly believe this committee should be disbanded and the members of it put into a dungeon and throw away the key. These people have a faster trigger than a 16 year old boy holding a Playboy. Think about it every year the committee changes or puts at least a new safety rule for the next season heck we now even have changes during midseason. Some have been logical (concussion) some completely whack (New Hit zone and defenseless receiver) that they don’t even know how to write it or explain it.
  They say that it’s all for the protection of the players but we all know it’s to protect their pockets, The athletes that play this game know the risk of the sports, know the risk of permanent damage to their bodies it will have after their career it’s done they all knew it before they signed up for it they’ve been playing this sport for at least 12 years before they even set a foot on the NFL they reason they all do it, Yes they all love the sport but they also know it’s the only or easiest way the majority if not all of them will ever come across earning that type of money.
  You have to protect the game, the product the reason why this has become the #1 sport in the USA and the #2 in the World these people make so many quick changes without thinking of the repercussions to the product they’re putting on the field. Let’s be honest if Football the only dangerous sport in the world?
  Image for one second a Boxing committee controlling how many hits a boxer can take in the head or body before a fight being stop? Or Nascar & the F1 lowering the speed limits the cars can go each year based on the crashes? An UFC fight stopped because a fighter is bleeding? Catch were I’m going with this?
  To try to control what a player is doing while launching at full speed trying to create a game changing play for its team and have that same player be worried were his head is going his body, the angle it’s how you just won’t stop injuries for happening but will create more because a player will go against its own protection instincts.
  The more sane and logical answer to all this injuries questions it’s the simplest one. Keep the game as it is and protect the players after their football career by giving them full Health Care for the rest of their lives. The players are already asking for it and by giving it and making it a mutual thing with the NFL giving them a preferred rate for renewal and/or covering a part of the fee as well as the NFLPA that way you protect the player for future problems after the game and you protect the product in the field otherwise we will be playing Flag football in 10 years.
  Stop trying to Fix what isn’t Broken
  

The rest of the stuff we’ve all have talked about it many times heck for the past few months that’s all we’ve been allowed to do and not giving a lot of material to go with so there’s no point to continue with it again.

Once again I want to congratulate last year’s winners of the “Don’s Prediction League” mlmpetert and Sparty. I will be posting the invitation for this year’s league 6th Season last year we had 25 players from 8 different football message boards playing. Let’s see if we can get more people involve. Remember its FREE with a $25 gift price or donation to their board to the Winner!

[jjakq27]

• The Rookie Wage Scale we all knew it needed to be done with the amount of bust teams gets every draft and the astronomical amount of money they were making without even playing one snap was a necessity for the future of all franchises you can't expect a team to advance when one bad pick in the top 5 can set your team back financially and competitively 5 years. It just became ridiculous when nobody wanted to have anything to do with the number 1 pick it became a burden not a reward.
  What nobody has asked themselves is could this become a problem with the 2011 draft class? Can we not expect a few draft brats suing the NFL induced by their agents saying that the new CBA is taking away the earnings they should be entitled for based on what previous players got in the past by being selected in the same spot or same position? Can we actually assume agents who live and breathe for getting these young talents and getting that huge rookie contract without having to maintain a good business relationship for years? Are we supposed to believe they won't jump when the NFL cuts their commission by half? Think about it for a second can this actually be over or are we just in the tip of the iceberg.

I would hope that they worked through that during the discussions. Since the current CBA expired prior to the draft I don't see how they can claim any grievances with the new system. Changes, good and bad, are part of the collective bargaining process. These same agents are representing established players as well. I hope the federal mediator/judge that is presiding over the negotiations will throw out any of these suits before they happen. They serve no purpose other than to delay the process and feed their own greed.

[thedon]

• The Rookie Wage Scale we all knew it needed to be done with the amount of bust teams gets every draft and the astronomical amount of money they were making without even playing one snap was a necessity for the future of all franchises you can't expect a team to advance when one bad pick in the top 5 can set your team back financially and competitively 5 years. It just became ridiculous when nobody wanted to have anything to do with the number 1 pick it became a burden not a reward.
  What nobody has asked themselves is could this become a problem with the 2011 draft class? Can we not expect a few draft brats suing the NFL induced by their agents saying that the new CBA is taking away the earnings they should be entitled for based on what previous players got in the past by being selected in the same spot or same position? Can we actually assume agents who live and breathe for getting these young talents and getting that huge rookie contract without having to maintain a good business relationship for years? Are we supposed to believe they won't jump when the NFL cuts their commission by half? Think about it for a second can this actually be over or are we just in the tip of the iceberg.

I would hope that they worked through that during the discussions. Since the current CBA expired prior to the draft I don't see how they can claim any grievances with the new system. Changes, good and bad, are part of the collective bargaining process. These same agents are representing established players as well. I hope the federal mediator/judge that is presiding over the negotiations will throw out any of these suits before they happen. They serve no purpose other than to delay the process and feed their own greed.

Greed is the root of all evil and it's simple "presedent" it only takes 1 player or more that feel cheated or want the HUGE payday to file another grevence saying there's presedent of players getting drafted before getting more money that they do now. Yo usay it can happen but right now when all things seem to be getting fix you see players that really don't need the money and the only reason they were named as part of the lawsuit was because of their name recognition asking for something extra for them to sign. Brees and Manning asking for them to get the Franchise excemption and Jackson and another asking for the same or 10 million bucks. So instead of thinking about the other 1890 players the want something extra for them special threatment.

So what makes you think we wont have the same thing with the rookies heck every year we have rookies holding on to get that extra millions in his contract Remember Andre Smith Holding out ot get that extra money? and how we all saw on hardnocks when he signed his contract his agent said congratulation you're a multimillionare. Instead of Congratualtions you're a Bengal or You're an NFL player. Some players are jsut looking to cash in and never have to work again so why would they take a 50% paycut?