2020 Draft

[AMPHAR]

3 minutes ago, membengal said:

I don’t think the roster is as remotely flawed as you do. I think even if it is that flawed the better way to fix it is to draft Burrow because he covers so many ills.

That's fine.   I don't know why you feel the need to make that point with me.    I have Burrow as an A+ pick.

However trading back OR acquiring another top 5 talent with a QB at 33 can fix it too.  Which is better is too subjective and dumb to argue, IMO.     That's the reality of this draft.      Burrow may end up being a generational QB but he isn't a generational prospect.   5 months ago he was mid pack in this class.

Burrow has gotten benefits of a GREAT season and he's proved is evaluators wrong.  However,  the other guys look damn good too. 

 

 

[AMPHAR]

1 hour ago, cincyhokie said:

What have we seen so far that would lead anyone to not take Burrow with the #1 pick?

To this point?  Nothing.       I think once they get into pro days etc.   Some QBs ranked below Burrow will look better at certain aspects.   Like "arm talent".

Burrow will come off as the complete package.       Burrow's big knock is prior to this year as he came out of no where.      When the Dolphins sucked so bad it was "Tank for Tua".

 

[AMPHAR]

26 minutes ago, membengal said:

Further to my thesis that the roster (and in particular the o-line) isn't as flawed as people think it is:

 

lol.   They cut 3 opening day starters and only Preston Brown got signed and then cut by a non-playoff team.

You have John Jerry and Bobby Hart that they didn't cut but sure as hell wouldn't walk into a starting job.

Price and Jordan would get signed because of potential not sure they would walk into a starting job.

They are so razor thin that when injuries occur they are starting street FA level guys.   

 

We saw this year what this line did to a superstar and for about a half year Mixon got lit up.     I'm all for drafting Burrow but they got to add talent.  

Mixon tearing it up post bye week is still a far cry from what you need to entertain competing for a wild card spot.

[membengal]

31 minutes ago, AMPHAR said:

That's fine.   I don't know why you feel the need to make that point with me.    I have Burrow as an A+ pick.

However trading back OR acquiring another top 5 talent with a QB at 33 can fix it too.  Which is better is too subjective and dumb to argue, IMO.     That's the reality of this draft.      Burrow may end up being a generational QB but he isn't a generational prospect.   5 months ago he was mid pack in this class.

Burrow has gotten benefits of a GREAT season and he's proved is evaluators wrong.  However,  the other guys look damn good too. 

 

 

Because I think a QB at 33 is a crapshoot (at best). Needs years to develop and hope that he in the end is better than average. Burrow is ready and already better than average now. It is beyond me why you or anyone would advocate hoping that a QB at 33 pans out when a QB is available for the taking at #1 overall who already has a better than average chance to be a difference maker. 

[membengal]

33 minutes ago, AMPHAR said:

lol.   They cut 3 opening day starters and only Preston Brown got signed and then cut by a non-playoff team.

You have John Jerry and Bobby Hart that they didn't cut but sure as hell wouldn't walk into a starting job.

Price and Jordan would get signed because of potential not sure they would walk into a starting job.

They are so razor thin that when injuries occur they are starting street FA level guys.   

 

We saw this year what this line did to a superstar and for about a half year Mixon got lit up.     I'm all for drafting Burrow but they got to add talent.  

Mixon tearing it up post bye week is still a far cry from what you need to entertain competing for a wild card spot.

They lost 8 games 8 points or less with this roster that you think is such shit, so LOL right  back at you. With what they turned over in-season, the draft picks they have, a few free agent signings and a QB who is not devastatingly inadequate they are in position to bounce back next year. Especially if they go ahead and trade some assets (Dalton, Glenn, Dre perhaps) and pick up some additional picks. 

The hard part is the QB normally, only, say! It doesn't have to be this time - Burrow is right there for them. 

[cincyhokie]

They really do have to make the OL a top priority. Then the LBs. The depth on this team is putrid. 

[membengal]

12 minutes ago, cincyhokie said:

They really do have to make the OL a top priority. Then the LBs. The depth on this team is putrid. 

They can do that with picks in 2, 3 or 4 and/or FA and still take Burrow, as I know you know. Get QB right and all else is much easier to solve. QB remains mired in mediocrity and no improvements elsewhere will get them over the hump. 

[TJJackson]

If you make the investment in a rookie qb with your r1 pick (whether at overall 1 or via trade down) you absolutely have to protect that investment, and that protection includes making your next two picks both be pass-blocking-first OL, with at least 1 of those being a ORT

I know we need linebackers.  100% agreed.  

But it is far more important in this specific scenario (round 1 qb drafted) to protect said investment by adding OL talent than it is to shore up our linebacker corps

[HoosierCat]

So Tua may not enter the draft. We’ll find out next week. If he doesn’t come out that likely increases the value of the first pick aka Joe Burrow from a trade perspective.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/sports.yahoo.com/amphtml/alabama-quarterback-tua-tagovailoa-announce-nfl-draft-decision-monday-nick-saban-injury-032834917.html

Again not saying they should trade down but if Tua is out IMHO the chance of a Ditka style offer goes up.

[AMPHAR]

So file this under for what it’s worth:

Listening to the radio.  Chick Ludwig hosting.  Lots of stories about Sam on the day of his passing.

Former Bengal and Nebraska cornhusker Tony Davis comes on and shares some good Bengal stories.     So who did he play with in College?  Jim Burrow.  Keeps in contact. 

Jim Burrow the dad of Joe Burrow? Yeah.

Where did Zac Taylor play?  Nebraska.

Does Tony know Zac?  Well yes he does.  How good?  Well good enough to be calling before the last Cleveland game.

Who’s the pick?  Apparently Joe’s the pick. 

We can move on to pick 33

 

 

[membengal]

1 hour ago, AMPHAR said:

So file this under for what it’s worth:

Listening to the radio.  Chick Ludwig hosting.  Lots of stories about Sam on the day of his passing.

Former Bengal and Nebraska cornhusker Tony Davis comes on and shares some good Bengal stories.     So who did he play with in College?  Jim Burrow.  Keeps in contact. 

Jim Burrow the dad of Joe Burrow? Yeah.

Where did Zac Taylor play?  Nebraska.

Does Tony know Zac?  Well yes he does.  How good?  Well good enough to be calling before the last Cleveland game.

Who’s the pick?  Apparently Joe’s the pick. 

We can move on to pick 33

 

 

All the dead puppies have been resurrected.

[HoosierCat]

Had seen him mocked to the Bengals at 33 in a couple places. Guess not.

[AMPHAR]

21 hours ago, membengal said:

They lost 8 games 8 points or less with this roster that you think is such shit, so LOL right  back at you. With what they turned over in-season, the draft picks they have, a few free agent signings and a QB who is not devastatingly inadequate they are in position to bounce back next year. Especially if they go ahead and trade some assets (Dalton, Glenn, Dre perhaps) and pick up some additional picks. 

The hard part is the QB normally, only, say! It doesn't have to be this time - Burrow is right there for them. 

Thank you.   Yes,  they need to add talent.  

I'm not sure why you think you are in an argument.       You can add talent via both the ways bolded above.    You can also add picks via trading the No.1 overall pick.

I'm fine with adding Burrow.  But additional talent will have to come from somewhere.  

 

[HoosierCat]

Tua declared for the draft. Even with the injury, one more potential star QB in the mix lowers the incentive to trade up and the chance that the Bengals get an offer they can’t refuse.

[membengal]

 

[AMPHAR]

1 hour ago, HoosierCat said:

Tua declared for the draft. Even with the injury, one more potential star QB in the mix lowers the incentive to trade up and the chance that the Bengals get an offer they can’t refuse.

To soon to tell.   It's quite possible Tua propels himself back into generational talent QB prospect and IF that happens the trade opportunities could be there.

I have no idea how accurate these trade value charts are.   I read one article that 3 charts developed by some people that are important, I guess.   Anywhere from 3-8 top 80 picks in drafts 2020-2022.  

The danger in drafting Burrow isn't his contract or that he'll bust.   It's what if there's a holy shit offer out there and you pass and just get a decent starter? 

Their Superbowl run in 1988 wad built on some crazy ass luck with draft trades and ultimately not getting Steve Young and Rick Hunley refusing to sign with them. 

[AMPHAR]

So just going through some Mocks.    Drafttek(?)  has an interesting one.    So let's play would you rather:

Door number #1:

1. Joe Burrow - QB LSU

2. Becton - OT Louisville (They had him going 34 and bengals grabbing a CB from Miss State at 32, I just switched them).

OR Door number #2.   Trade with Miami No. 1 overall for all of Miami first round picks netting you:

1a. - Tua - QB Alabama

1b - Jedrick Willis - T Alabama

1c - Tyler Biadasz - C/G Wisconsin

#33 - Cameron Dantzier - CB Miss State

Interesting debate.   I'd have to take door number 2.   Tua is a franchise QB, at one point rated higher than Burrow WITH Injury and Durability concerns.   Offensive line would have a major influx of talent.   First you grabbed the nations top Tackle a year before and now you are grabbing another 5 star Alabama tackle (From Lexington, KY).  Then Biadasz is Center or Guard but I have seen write ups that are very Norte Dame Quenton Nelson like highest rated linemen in the draft.    Finally Dantzler a CB.

 

Door #1

1. Burrow mania.   We know the story and he looks the part.   Main concern is that he rocketed up the board past all expectations and there will always be that worry it's a fluke.  However, when you watch him it's been amazing.

2. Becton - Powerful, Athletic tackle.   High ceiling and was 4 stars out of highschool

Either one of  these draft hauls I would rate A+++

 

[cincyhokie]

7 minutes ago, AMPHAR said:

So just going through some Mocks.    Drafttek(?)  has an interesting one.    So let's play would you rather:

Door number #1:

1. Joe Burrow - QB LSU

2. Becton - OT Louisville (They had him going 34 and bengals grabbing a CB from Miss State at 32, I just switched them).

OR Door number #2.   Trade with Miami No. 1 overall for all of Miami first round picks netting you:

1a. - Tua - QB Alabama

1b - Jedrick Willis - T Alabama

1c - Tyler Biadasz - C/G Wisconsin

#33 - Cameron Dantzier - CB Miss State

Interesting debate.   I'd have to take door number 2.   Tua is a franchise QB, at one point rated higher than Burrow WITH Injury and Durability concerns.   Offensive line would have a major influx of talent.   First you grabbed the nations top Tackle a year before and now you are grabbing another 5 star Alabama tackle (From Lexington, KY).  Then Biadasz is Center or Guard but I have seen write ups that are very Norte Dame Quenton Nelson like highest rated linemen in the draft.    Finally Dantzler a CB.

 

Door #1

1. Burrow mania.   We know the story and he looks the part.   Main concern is that he rocketed up the board past all expectations and there will always be that worry it's a fluke.  However, when you watch him it's been amazing.

2. Becton - Powerful, Athletic tackle.   High ceiling and was 4 stars out of highschool

Either one of  these draft hauls I would rate A+++

 

What happens when they trade down to 5 and the Steelers or someone else trades up to 3 or 4 in front of them to take Tua?

[HoosierCat]

7 minutes ago, cincyhokie said:

What happens when they trade down to 5 and the Steelers or someone else trades up to 3 or 4 in front of them to take Tua?

Yeah, this is the catch. If you can guarantee Tua is there and if he checked out healthy...I wouldn’t complain about that trade. But someone would jump them, 100% chance. Which probably leads to Herbert at 5. I like Herbert, he’ll be a good QB, but I don’t think he’s in the same class as Burrow and Tua.

[Wraith]

Agreed....while I think it is doubtful that Washington trades away the chance to nab Chase Young, the NYG or Detroit would absolutely be listening to trade options.  Too great a risk.

 

 

[cincyhokie]

Teams that might look to trade into top 5 to draft Tua ahead of Miami.

Panthers

Chargers

Saints

Patriots

Colts

Raiders

Buccaneers

Steelers

How about we draft Burrow. Then look at trading other draft picks, like the desirable #33, to get more draft picks this year and next. Then add players via FA. And also slow down and not have to rebuild in 1 year. This is at least a 2 year rebuild if they do it right. 

[Stripes]

If we're not assuming straightaway that Tua is available at 5, then I want Burrow.

If we ARE making that assumption, then... I want Burrow.

Injuries are a much bigger concern for me than any doubts I've seen thrown at Joe (one hit wonder, arm strength, system QB, etc).

[AMPHAR]

3 hours ago, cincyhokie said:

What happens when they trade down to 5 and the Steelers or someone else trades up to 3 or 4 in front of them to take Tua?

How do the Steelers get up in front of them without a first rounder? 

I’m working from a mock that all have Tua at 5. 

So if a team can jump the Bengals at five then they can jump the Phins at five so maybe 3 first rounders is too light? 

 

[COB]

Refuse any and all offers.  Doesn’t even matter what gets offered.  Take Burreaux and build out from there.  If he develops into the player he looks like he could develop into, we’re top 5 QB for 10-15 years.

[Stripes]

8 minutes ago, COB said:

Refuse any and all offers.  Doesn’t even matter what gets offered.  Take Burreaux and build out from there.  If he develops into the player he looks like he could develop into, we’re top 5 QB for 10-15 years.

It's really that simple.