2020 Draft

[AMPHAR]

So here we go.   Bengals are locked in at No. 1 overall and No. 33 overall.    Hopefully the NFL acts on the Patriots and takes a first rounder effectively giving the Bengals two top 32 picks.   Plus the staff now gets the Senior Bowl coaching and additional scouting insight.  

I realize a lot of Bengal fans are locked into Burrow or Bust mindset.   My thinking right now is Burrow is a A+ pick for the Bengals but not the only A+ pick.    Just stay in the top 5.

So now on the horizon can a team get soooo enamored with Joe Burrow they are willing to give up a King's ransom to get him?    The Miami Dolphins? 

They own 3 first round picks and 2 second round picks.    Estimated around 4th, 19th, 25th, 38th, 61st.     Plenty of picks to try to get your top QB and still address need.

What will it take from the Bengals to pull the trigger?   Would you take the 4th, 19th, and 61st for Joe Burrow? 

Keep in mind IF the Bengals keep Joe Burrow they could get something for Andy Dalton. 

[cincyhokie]

1 hour ago, AMPHAR said:

So here we go.   Bengals are locked in at No. 1 overall and No. 33 overall.    Hopefully the NFL acts on the Patriots and takes a first rounder effectively giving the Bengals two top 32 picks.   Plus the staff now gets the Senior Bowl coaching and additional scouting insight.  

I realize a lot of Bengal fans are locked into Burrow or Bust mindset.   My thinking right now is Burrow is a A+ pick for the Bengals but not the only A+ pick.    Just stay in the top 5.

So now on the horizon can a team get soooo enamored with Joe Burrow they are willing to give up a King's ransom to get him?    The Miami Dolphins? 

They own 3 first round picks and 2 second round picks.    Estimated around 4th, 19th, 25th, 38th, 61st.     Plenty of picks to try to get your top QB and still address need.

What will it take from the Bengals to pull the trigger?   Would you take the 4th, 19th, and 61st for Joe Burrow? 

Keep in mind IF the Bengals keep Joe Burrow they could get something for Andy Dalton. 

It would depend on how Tua looks health wise I think. Or if a QB can impress during combine process.  But if Burrow kills it and wins the NC game, he’ll be hard to pass on.

[HoosierCat]

Burrow will put butts back in the seats. Mike knows it, Katie knows it and Troy knows it.

Unless he murders someone between now and April, Burrow is a lock.

[Scottishbengal]

I'm looking at the draft with a slightly different perspective. Coaching.

The D has come on leaps and bounds this season under Anaruno - if we take Chase Young, an already stellar DE, imagine what the ceiling would be for Young and the Bengals D.

QB - o/line, play calling, inefficient execution - someone said that ZT is the "QB whisperer" but from my view this whole season both Dalton and Finlay have all but disappointed. I can see if Burrow is the No.1 pick then he will not flourish under ZT's tutelage. Could this be a possibly a wasted pick if you can't develop a young QB, or could it possibly be a "reach" for ZT trying to save his job and reputation ??

No 1 overall pick - Chase Young in an inspiring environment or Burrow with a porous O-line and no ability to call his own plays ???

 

 . 

[membengal]

Burrow who can make a bad line look good and a good line look above average.

[COB]

30th in total defense in the league.

32nd against the run.  
 

 

[membengal]

The single way to most likely overcome bad management is a franchise qb. If you are in position to try and get one, you make the try.

[cincyhokie]

2 hours ago, membengal said:

The single way to most likely overcome bad management is a franchise qb. If you are in position to try and get one, you make the try.

Exactly. When you look at Drew Brees you see his stats. But you also see where he turned around an entire franchise. Stats don’t show the impact of his leadership and character and what it’s meant to that organization and city. 

I think the Bengals organization is a dumpster fire. It’s not likely that changes. But...if there’s a way it does, it might be by bringing in players like Joe Burrow. And since he’s a QB he has that much more impact. You take the risk here. You have to. You simply cannot see the state of this organization and then think they have the brain power to construct a top roster and THEN get your QB. Makes no sense whatsoever. Zero.

[TJJackson]

COB: I am not all-in on Burrow just yet.....but......if we do take a franchise qb we absolutely need to ensure that this investment is protected, and I see that as a higher priority than improving the D, even as horrendously/admittedly bad as it was this year

as such, ____IF____ we take a franchise QB, I hope and pray the next two selections are passblocking offensive lineman, one of whom should be an ORT

[membengal]

Re: discussion of QBs, QB evaluation, and NFL readiness etc, this bit from Robert Mays in The Ringer is on point:

https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2019/12/26/21036419/2019-nfl-season-lessons-lamar-jackson-coaching-seahawks-patriots

Quote

1. The days of fixating on what quarterbacks can’t do should be over.

Lamar Jackson’s success with the Ravens will undoubtedly inspire teams to try to find “the next Lamar Jackson.” Yeah … good luck with that. Baltimore’s offense has thrived because Jackson is a special runner and coordinator Greg Roman’s scheme is unlike any other in the NFL, but teams that try to replicate that formula are doomed to fail.

The lesson from Baltimore’s experience with Jackson is that the organization saw an exceptionally talented quarterback, believed in that talent, and built a system designed to maximize it. Jackson wasn’t some small-school prospect who Baltimore discovered by chance. He wasn’t even a supremely gifted, but hard to evaluate anomaly like Patrick Mahomes. Jackson won the ***damn Heisman Trophy. He was the best player in college football for an entire season. Yet instead of focusing on all of his exceptional traits, every other QB-needy team decided to fixate on what they believed Jackson couldn’t do.

It’s not quite as damning, considering he was drafted 12th overall, but it’s similar to what happened with Deshaun Watson in 2017. Watson may not have won the Heisman, but he played in two consecutive national championship games, knocked off Alabama in the second, and finished his career as one of the most productive college quarterbacks of all time. Then, when draft time rolled around, the Bears decided that Mitchell Trubisky was a better choice to lead their franchise. All Watson has done since is carry the Texans to two playoff berths in a row and develop into one of the most exhilarating players in the NFL.

The message here isn’t that teams should ignore a prospect’s glaring weaknesses. It’s that when a player is showing you—through elite production against the best teams in the country—that he’s great, maybe you should believe him. Quarterback evaluation is obviously more complex than that, but in the cases of Watson, Mahomes, and Jackson, teams made it more convoluted than needed. Lamar Jackson was one of the best college football players of the decade, and the Ravens have given him the space to show everyone why. And they may just win a Super Bowl because of it."

Re: the bold - that's where I am on Burrow. People can pick at nits with him all they want - (hasn't started enough, doesn't have Aaron Rodgers' arm) but in the end, what he does well and at an elite level and against the very best competition that college football had to offer was complete passes, throw TDs, and be as accurate as any QB has been in the college game ever. He looks like a slightly taller and slightly more athletic Drew Brees. If the Bengals overthink this and pass on him, they deserve the scorn and complete abandonment of the franchise that is on the precipice of occurring now.

[HoosierCat]

As a long suffering Bengals fan, I am far less concerned about Burrow failing the organization than I am about the organization failing him.

[membengal]

33 minutes ago, HoosierCat said:

As a long suffering Bengals fan, I am far less concerned about Burrow failing the organization than I am about the organization failing him.

Nothing can be done about that last part. But that isn't a reason to pass on Burrow as it would apply to any draft pick at #1 overall. 

[cincyhokie]

16 minutes ago, HoosierCat said:

As a long suffering Bengals fan, I am far less concerned about Burrow failing the organization than I am about the organization failing him.

In that case, the Bengals will fail everyone. Everytime. So the point is moot. And I'm not saying that isn't a real possibility no matter who they pick.

But if there's one position that can have the most influential impact, it's QB right? Then ask yourself what kind of QB are you looking for and how will you get him?

I have no idea if Joe Burrow is the answer but from everything I've seen so far, he's about as perfect for this organization as any player I've seen. And at this point, what do we have to lose?

[cincyhokie]

 

[HoosierCat]

Oh, don’t get me wrong, I’m fully behind taking him. I just have no expectations that it will matter. I am reduced to finding entertainment in watching just *how* the Bengals screw this up unfolds.

[ShulaSteakhouse]

 

 

[TJJackson]

Shula: one last time, asking:  have you ever eaten at a Shula's Steakhouse?

[COB]

Hardest schedule in the first twenty picks, no wonder we lost 14 games!

[membengal]

I am NOT seeing the argument for trade back and take Herbert. He’s had a generally disappointing year - and is now 12 for 17 with an INT at the six minute make in the fourth quarter of the Rose Bowl. He does have eight carries for 32 yards and three rushing TDs.

so maybe a little like Josh Allen? Dunno. No way in hell do I bet on him over Burrow even if it comes with a ton of draft choices.

[Wraith]

If Miami were to offer all three first round picks and one of their two second rounders, I would think about trading down...anything short of that would be a hard pass for me.

Tua + Chaisson + Josh Jones + Lemieux might be greater than Burrow...

[cincyhokie]

We have to consider that this is not a one year rebuild. And when you look at the most important position on the field you look at QB. Taking a chance on Burrow that he can the guy who this franchise can completely build around for the next 15 years is well worth that risk. You don’t just take the next “ok” QB because you can get more picks.

What if Burrow brings the energy and leadership needed to transform this organization?

What if Burrow is the guy that FA’s want to come to Cincinnati to play with?

What if Burrow is impactful enough to make the rest of the players on the team play to their highest potential? Think Drew Brees and his impact.

If there is a way to move this organization in the right direction it’s going to come with drafting high impact players and leaders. And you best damn take that kind of player if he’s a QB.

Taking Burrow straight up with the first pick is well worth the risk opposes to gambling that by taking a bunch of other draft picks will maybe work out. 

What is there to lose?

 

 

 

[membengal]

What Hokie said.

[Wraith]

7 hours ago, cincyhokie said:

We have to consider that this is not a one year rebuild. And when you look at the most important position on the field you look at QB. Taking a chance on Burrow that he can the guy who this franchise can completely build around for the next 15 years is well worth that risk. You don’t just take the next “ok” QB because you can get more picks.

What if Burrow brings the energy and leadership needed to transform this organization?

What if Burrow is the guy that FA’s want to come to Cincinnati to play with?

What if Burrow is impactful enough to make the rest of the players on the team play to their highest potential? Think Drew Brees and his impact.

If there is a way to move this organization in the right direction it’s going to come with drafting high impact players and leaders. And you best damn take that kind of player if he’s a QB.

Taking Burrow straight up with the first pick is well worth the risk opposes to gambling that by taking a bunch of other draft picks will maybe work out. 

What is there to lose?

 

 

 

I agree with this Hokie but there has to be a line where you have to be open to the thought of trading down.. I think all of this is academic because I don't believe Miami will offer us three first rounders + a second to fall down from 1 to 5.  As you say this is not a one year rebuild and this team is not just a QB away.  Let's say we forego a QB all together.  We take Isiah Simmons at 5, Josh Jones at 19, and Murray or Chaisson at 24.  We have completely overhauled our two biggest roster holes in a single draft heck, a single Round, take the best available IOL at 33 and the best TE with Miami's second and you have injected a major amount of young talent into the roster....that is not worth passing on Joe Burrow? As you say there is always 2021...

[membengal]

That is not worth passing on Joe Burrow.

[cincyhokie]

There are plenty of ways to look at the draft. And I hope they are looking at all options. 

But any way you look at it, this is not a one year rebuild. So what are the most important positions to get? And what’s generally the hardest positions to get right?

How many LBs play on the field? 3-4.

OL? 5.

QB? 1.

What position has the most impact? Heck, just look at what’s already in front of us with Burrow. What do you want to see in your QB that you draft? And if you think that’s better than Burrow where do you think you need to be to draft him? You’re going to have to sit at #1 overall.

When is the next time the Bengals will definitely draft at #1?

Right now the only criticism of Burrow is that he didn’t light it up in 2018. That would be an idiotic reason to pass him up.

Really we should be talking about who they’re going to take at #33.