Ravens @ Bengals Game Thread

[Stripes]

If it isn't a joke, the league will treat it like one.<BR><BR>If that play isn't offensive pass interference, then offensive pass interference doesn't exist. And I am always the guy telling people not to gripe about the referees when calls don't go our way.

[HoosierCat]

Did anybody see on any film that maybe was recorded, whose responsibility was to block the one that got to Dalton for the fumble?

Ngata. Technically he was Whit's man, but at the snap Whit moves right and he and Boling double Boling's guy. Hewitt is in the backfield and he sprints left toward the DB. I can't believe Whit would somehow forget to block Ngata and he's lined up right in front of him. Either Hewitt was supposed to chip Ngata or it's just a horrible play design.

The killer thing is that the play is a run fake to the right and Hill probably would have gotten some yards if there had actually been a handoff.

[volcom69]

Dalton should have just taken a sack there, he is smarter then putting the ball in his left hand and trying to throw it. I thought I was watching Gus Frerotte back there, it didn't give me a good feeling lol

[HoosierCat]

Dalton should have just taken a sack there, he is smarter then putting the ball in his left hand and trying to throw it. I thought I was watching Gus Frerotte back there, it didn't give me a good feeling lol

He really didn't have time. The run fake goes to his right, so he's turning right when he gets the snap in order to fake the handoff to Hill. This puts his back to Ngata. By the time he completes his spin to the right so he can see to his left again, Haloti is like three inches away. The play just had no chance whatsoever, unless it's goal was to create a sack-fumble. Then it worked just fine.

[redsbengalsbucks]

Dalton should have just taken a sack there, he is smarter then putting the ball in his left hand and trying to throw it. I thought I was watching Gus Frerotte back there, it didn't give me a good feeling lol

Never should have been throwing the ball in that position in the game. up 6 within a long FG try and three downs to run it to get closer with just minutes left in the game. Stupid call by HUE!

[COB]

Dalton should have just taken a sack there, he is smarter then putting the ball in his left hand and trying to throw it. I thought I was watching Gus Frerotte back there, it didn't give me a good feeling lol

He really didn't have time. The run fake goes to his right, so he's turning right when he gets the snap in order to fake the handoff to Hill. This puts his back to Ngata. By the time he completes his spin to the right so he can see to his left again, Haloti is like three inches away. The play just had no chance whatsoever, unless it's goal was to create a sack-fumble. Then it worked just fine.

He had enough time to put the ball in his left hand and try to throw it, an ill-advised evasive maneuver to try to avoid a sack. So he did have time to eat it and take a sack. Which is what he should have done trying to protect a lead in the 4th quarter. Note to Andy for future Ravens games: when Haloti Ngata is climbing on your back, not the time to attempt a pass. Dalton also was lucky to avoid injury as the ball was headed the other way, Ngata threw him down kind of by he shoulder pads, sort of horse collarish. It really looked ackward and dangerous.

[HoosierCat]

Dalton should have just taken a sack there, he is smarter then putting the ball in his left hand and trying to throw it. I thought I was watching Gus Frerotte back there, it didn't give me a good feeling lol

He really didn't have time. The run fake goes to his right, so he's turning right when he gets the snap in order to fake the handoff to Hill. This puts his back to Ngata. By the time he completes his spin to the right so he can see to his left again, Haloti is like three inches away. The play just had no chance whatsoever, unless it's goal was to create a sack-fumble. Then it worked just fine.

He had enough time to put the ball in his left hand and try to throw it, an ill-advised evasive maneuver to try to avoid a sack. So he did have time to eat it and take a sack.

I've seen a bunch of people say he switches hands, but if you watch the replay he doesn't. He comes out of the fake handoff with both hands on the ball and that doesn't change until he chucks it. Which is another WTF element about the play: unless he was planning a left hand pass he comes out of the fake in no position to throw. His shoulders are square to the sideline with his right throwing shoulder pointed toward the line of scrimmage. There's no way he can throw downfield without completely stopping, turning, squaring up and planting. It may be that the play was intended as a run all the way, I dunno.

Which is what he should have done trying to protect a lead in the 4th quarter. Note to Andy for future Ravens games: when Haloti Ngata is climbing on your back, not the time to attempt a pass. Dalton also was lucky to avoid injury as the ball was headed the other way, Ngata threw him down kind of by he shoulder pads, sort of horse collarish. It really looked ackward and dangerous.

Agreed but I blame the call. In that situation just hand the ball to Hill. The zone stretch blocking on the fake was good and he would have gained yards.

[membengal]

Dalton said that he wasn't trying to throw the ball left-handed. It was as Hoosier described, his ball was in the left hand due to the way the play was designed and he was mauled before he had a chance to switch the ball back to his right hand and attempt a throw.

[HoosierCat]

And just to be clear, I'm not trying to absolve Dalton here. At the end of the day you gotta hold onto the ball. I just have a hard time jumping his sh*t when the play was such a clusterfudge from the start. For those who feel the need to criticize his play, I'd point to the eye-rolling overthrow of Little in the end zone (in which Andy's pass wasn't even in the same ZIP code). He also made me crazy with his very first throw, a typical first-drive-amped-up-Andy sail-a-rooski that's an invitation for a deep free safety to make pick. Fortunately Sanu rescued him with a spectacular one-handed grab. Dalton gets a little too excited out there sometimes and IMO it shows in throws like these.

[gregcook68]

And just to be clear, I'm not trying to absolve Dalton here. At the end of the day you gotta hold onto the ball. I just have a hard time jumping his sh*t when the play was such a clusterfudge from the start. For those who feel the need to criticize his play, I'd point to the eye-rolling overthrow of Little in the end zone (in which Andy's pass wasn't even in the same ZIP code). He also made me crazy with his very first throw, a typical first-drive-amped-up-Andy sail-a-rooski that's an invitation for a deep free safety to make pick. Fortunately Sanu rescued him with a spectacular one-handed grab. Dalton gets a little too excited out there sometimes and IMO it shows in throws like these.

Outside of Brady, and even he looked like a deer in the headlights against the Chiefs, QBs are going to mess up! No QB is going to play a season without a turnover. The media likes to sensationalize every chance they get, which is why I think they like to use Andy the way they do. He's expected to look foolish, and when he doesn't and shines, it's because of the players around him. We are used to that, and whenever he messes up, we are expected to point and laugh or get pissed off, and if we DO see something that happened, that maybe could have prevented the mistake, by George we better not allude to it, and if we do, we certainly should feel guilty about it afterwards.

[membengal]

Good points, Hoosier. Those two mistakes for sure, and one other on the sideline where he almost missed too far inside was a pick 6 waiting to happen. He certainly wasn't perfect, but the fumble? I don't know that he even really had time to process what was happening, Ngata was on him so fast as he turned.

[COB]

Outside of Brady, and even he looked like a deer in the headlights against the Chiefs, QBs are going to mess up! No QB is going to play a season without a turnover. The media likes to sensationalize every chance they get, which is why I think they like to use Andy the way they do. He's expected to look foolish, and when he doesn't and shines, it's because of the players around him. We are used to that, and whenever he messes up, we are expected to point and laugh or get pissed off, and if we DO see something that happened, that maybe could have prevented the mistake, by George we better not allude to it, and if we do, we certainly should feel guilty about it afterwards.

There's some big media campaign against Dalton? This is the first I've heard of it. If there were a big media campaign against Dalton they'd be pounding him, and I don't see that anywhere. We'd hear about his 6, yes, 6, touchdown passes so far this season. Know how many QB's have more than Andy? 28. 28 QBs have thrown more tds than Dalton. Hear anyone in the media scorching him for it? I don't. They accept him for what he is, a game managing, limited quarterback. That's what he is, nothing less, nothing more. He'll go off sometime soon, probably when Green gets back. But the media won't herald him as a top ten or top 15 quarterback, because they know better.

I could have missed all these articles where the media "uses Andy the way they do," whatever that means. Also please find the media that tells us we are expected to point and laugh when Dalton makes mistakes. Where is this mysterious media that tells us Dalton is expected to look foolish? I just don't see it. Anywhere.

[Earendil]

Ummm.... there's a writer on NFL.com that ranks QBs based on what he calls the "Dalton Line". If your teams QB is worse then Dalton, you need a new one desperately. He's done it for a couple years now. And he's not the only one who loves to point out Andy's flaws. It's like the media is full of Shulas.

Edit: I suspect I'm being COB'd, but still not sure.

[volcom69]

Outside of Brady, and even he looked like a deer in the headlights against the Chiefs, QBs are going to mess up! No QB is going to play a season without a turnover. The media likes to sensationalize every chance they get, which is why I think they like to use Andy the way they do. He's expected to look foolish, and when he doesn't and shines, it's because of the players around him. We are used to that, and whenever he messes up, we are expected to point and laugh or get pissed off, and if we DO see something that happened, that maybe could have prevented the mistake, by George we better not allude to it, and if we do, we certainly should feel guilty about it afterwards.

There's some big media campaign against Dalton? This is the first I've heard of it. If there were a big media campaign against Dalton they'd be pounding him, and I don't see that anywhere. We'd hear about his 6, yes, 6, touchdown passes so far this season. Know how many QB's have more than Andy? 28. 28 QBs have thrown more tds than Dalton. Hear anyone in the media scorching him for it? I don't. They accept him for what he is, a game managing, limited quarterback. That's what he is, nothing less, nothing more. He'll go off sometime soon, probably when Green gets back. But the media won't herald him as a top ten or top 15 quarterback, because they know better.

I could have missed all these articles where the media "uses Andy the way they do," whatever that means. Also please find the media that tells us we are expected to point and laugh when Dalton makes mistakes. Where is this mysterious media that tells us Dalton is expected to look foolish? I just don't see it. Anywhere.

Yea I mentioned it before Big Ben had 6 TDs against the colts, and Dalton has 6 for the whole season, how crazy is that.

I'm guessing its Hues offense on why his TD passes are down so much, or maybe because they struggle throwing in the redzone. I just find it crazy how last year he set a bengals franchise record in TDs but this year only has 6 so far. I guess least his Ints are down so far. At some point though to win games he is going to have to throw TD passes to win, or see the Colts game.

[COB]

I'm guessing its Hues offense on why his TD passes are down so much,

Agreed, Hue dumbed the whole thing down thinking he'd eliminate mistakes. So far I think it has worked. Mistakes are down, and even though I don't have any stats to support it, with my own eyes I see Dalton is handling pass rush pressure much better than in previous years. He throws accurately right away or just gets rid of it.

The downside - there is a risk/reward dynamic at work at all times, in all things. Football is no exception. We've eliminated some of the risk, but as it walked out the door it took some of the potential reward with it. Good defenses are not going to be run on all day, and screens are basically runs. They'll pack the box and stop us.

Jackson has to know this. My guess is he thinks when we play teams that are lighting it up offensively, he expects to be able to game plan that week and turn it on. That will be a lot easier to do when AJ comes back. A shootout game like the Steelers had with the Colts? We're dead. We'll never keep up with that because we don't have Ben Roethlisberger or Andrew Luck at quarterback. Jackson and Marvin know it, so they have just streamlined our offense to do what we do well and sort of disregard the rest. Our best hope is our defense finds its form, our o-line comes on with monster truck force as the meat grinder NFL season wears down defenses, and we smashmouth our way into a playoff run.

PS - even though it is off topic, I felt like our fat right tackle got a raw deal Sunday. A much shorter guy gets under him, and Andre just pushed down on his shoulder pads, pushing him down. I really didn't see holding any more than I see it on every play. The announcers acted like it was blatantly obvious he was holding, but I didn't see it. As long as your arms are in, and his were, you can grab the guy. Wtf?

[gregcook68]

Ummm.... there's a writer on NFL.com that ranks QBs based on what he calls the "Dalton Line". If your teams QB is worse then Dalton, you need a new one desperately. He's done it for a couple years now. And he's not the only one who loves to point out Andy's flaws. It's like the media is full of Shulas.

Edit: I suspect I'm being COB'd, but still not sure.

Nice point earendil. Many around here only sees what fits into their agenda. Of course, we do have some incredible football minds in here, so I always try to yield to that upper echelon. A few in here, once they've weighed in, there's really nothing else to say or add.

I quit watching the talking heads because it became too much about Dalton, not winning a playoff game, instead of the Bengals. I could care less how many TDs he throws or doesn't throw. I root for wins whether the TDs are on the ground or in the air, is a moot point.

Let's compare teams for a minute. The team the Bengals play this Sunday have only been in existence for 19 years and have played in 11 playoff games with a 5-6 record.

The Bengals have been around for 46 years, Dalton has been here 3 and a half of those 46, and have played in 17 playoff games with a 5-12 record.

There's probably a little bit more to this than Lewis and Dalton.

[HoosierCat]

I'm guessing its Hues offense on why his TD passes are down so much,

Agreed, Hue dumbed the whole thing down thinking he'd eliminate mistakes. So far I think it has worked.

Gentlemen, if I may propose a simple explanation of why Dalton's TD passes are down: because the team's rushing TDs are up. Here are the total offensive TDs for the first 7 games in the Dalton era:

2011: 14

2012: 18

2013: 16

2014: 17

Do we really give a sh*t how many are by pass and how many on the ground if we're getting the same results?

[gregcook68]

I'm guessing its Hues offense on why his TD passes are down so much,

Agreed, Hue dumbed the whole thing down thinking he'd eliminate mistakes. So far I think it has worked.

Gentlemen, if I may propose a simple explanation of why Dalton's TD passes are down: because the team's rushing TDs are up. Here are the total offensive TDs for the first 7 games in the Dalton era:

2011: 14

2012: 18

2013: 16

2014: 17

Do we really give a sh*t how many are by pass and how many on the ground if we're getting the same results?

If the agenda is the Bengals, it's a no brainer.

If the agenda is Dalton, I question true fan loyalty versus personal ego.

[volcom69]

I'm guessing its Hues offense on why his TD passes are down so much,

Agreed, Hue dumbed the whole thing down thinking he'd eliminate mistakes. So far I think it has worked.

Gentlemen, if I may propose a simple explanation of why Dalton's TD passes are down: because the team's rushing TDs are up. Here are the total offensive TDs for the first 7 games in the Dalton era:

2011: 14

2012: 18

2013: 16

2014: 17

Do we really give a sh*t how many are by pass and how many on the ground if we're getting the same results?

No I really don't care, I just find it crazy that he only has 6 to this point, when last year he is setting records.

[gregcook68]

I'm guessing its Hues offense on why his TD passes are down so much,

Agreed, Hue dumbed the whole thing down thinking he'd eliminate mistakes. So far I think it has worked.

Gentlemen, if I may propose a simple explanation of why Dalton's TD passes are down: because the team's rushing TDs are up. Here are the total offensive TDs for the first 7 games in the Dalton era:

2011: 14

2012: 18

2013: 16

2014: 17

Do we really give a sh*t how many are by pass and how many on the ground if we're getting the same results?

No I really don't care, I just find it crazy that he only has 6 to this point, when last year he is setting records.

Last year he was throwing the ball a whole lot more.

Didn't Marvin Jones have 8 red zone TDS alone?

[membengal]

[a certain poster], the #1 reason I don't come around these parts much anymore.

Edited October 30, 2014 by HoosierCat
If you don't like someone's views just use the ignore button. No need for a special announcement.

[Wraith]

Not having Green, Jones, and Eifert 8 a going to affect his td performance so when they are close they have been running it more...

[gregcook68]

[a certain poster] the #1 reason I don't come around these parts much anymore.

The 'Ignore' feature is helpful. I just wished it blocked out even replies to posts as well! ;)/>

[membengal]

...

[membengal]

The weird anti-dalton agendas of people make fan boards a mess.