Carson Palmer Thread

[ct_bengal]

mike brown is ridiculous, let the f**ken guy go somewhere and try to rejuvenate himself, cincinnati is going to have a real hard time getting free agents to come after this s**t. Signed a contract waaaaaahh...

[cincyhokie]

mike brown is ridiculous, let the f**ken guy go somewhere and try to rejuvenate himself, cincinnati is going to have a real hard time getting free agents to come after this s**t. Signed a contract waaaaaahh...

Mike Brown is going to win this war, at all costs! (He's such a hardcore badass).

[membengal]

Wah! Mike brown was mean to carson! Showered him with 80 million dollars! What meanie! Why...no free agent would ever come now!

[cincyhokie]

I would argue that Mike Brown has done nothing with Palmer that could improve this team. Palmer is prompting his own addition by subtraction. Thanks BTW, Carson!

MB would actually welcome a quitter back to be the starting QB if Palmer would accept. Then with an opportunity to field offers for Palmer to possibly make the Bengals better...he sticks to his guns and does...nothing.

[johnswahoo]

This squabble between Mike Brown and Carson Palmer is like two old friends battling over something that happened between them on the school yard. Obviously this is personal for the both of them, why, who knows. Obviously Carson doesn't like the direction of the team and Mike has his feeling hurt because he doesn't like the way he is being tested by the star player. I must be honest, if I were a player coming out of college right now I wouldn't want to play for the Bengals, much like I wouldn't want to be a Buffalo Bill or Carolina Panther. However, I am sure that Brown has a reputation as a person who doesn't pay or doesn't bring in the proper personal that a team can build around. A person can only take so much in fighting between management and coaches and coaches with players and players with management. The whole damn thing needs to be blown up and rebuilt from the bottom up.

Perhaps Carson believed that he would start a team revolt and others would follow, only to find out they didn't follow. (He went running through the quad himself--think old school)

If Mike wanted to benefit the Bengals, let Carson go, cut ties with him, never invite him back to the city for anything and move on. Get two good players in return for him. Take the salary that he has to work with and either give it to a player who wants to stay a Bengal or pay a player who wants to play for the Bengals. But this stand on letting him retire only hurts the team going forward.

[BengalszoneBilly]

If Mike wanted to benefit the Bengals, let Carson go, cut ties with him, never invite him back to the city for anything and move on. Get two good players in return for him. Take the salary that he has to work with and either give it to a player who wants to stay a Bengal or pay a player who wants to play for the Bengals. But this stand on letting him retire only hurts the team going forward.

That's the way I see it. When you choose getting nothing to help your team over getting something to help you team, I see you as a stupid man who has no business running an NFL team.

His undeniably dismal record as an owner speaks for itself. And if brains were dynamite, he couldn't blow his nose.

[ct_bengal]

well on a more positive note-

But Crocker also offered a defender's perspective when asked if the team crumbles with a major foundation gone.

"I don’t want to offend anyone, but it's not like we've been scoring 40 points a game." Crocker said. "Since I've been here, the defense has been the strength. That's just facts. And now the way we're looking at is we're going back to work. But I don't want to leave you with the impression we don't have a chance. I think we do. It reminds me of '09 coming off that bad season and no one giving us a chance.

[ArmyBengal]

Upon further review and time to contemplate things a bit more, I find myself being more angered with Mike Brown.

While I enjoy what he said to a degree, his rant comes off as a little girl who was turned down by the boy of her dreams.

Boo hoo, he doesn't love me. So if he won't love me, i'll make sure he doesn't love anyone else.

I do think he's making this personal and I do think it has a negative effect on the organization as a whole.

While I can certainly see the worth in sticking to your guns, at some point in time something should be done on the business front to make an effort to improve your team and move on from such issues that linger. I also think undrafted free agents looking at what is going on in Cincinnati would be turned off from wanting to come here. The same can be said for veteran free agents and why I am more worried than I have been in regards to JJoe.

If you are JJoe and watching what Mike Brown said in his interview, are you thinking to yourself: "God I really want to play here" ??

Why on earth would JJoe want to stay in Cincinnati ?? He will certainly have equal, if not better, offers to play for a contender.

If nothing else, to play for an organization that isn't viewed as a laughing stock.

I'm really not happy at all with how this has turned out.

[cincyhokie]

Upon further review and time to contemplate things a bit more, I find myself being more angered with Mike Brown.

While I enjoy what he said to a degree, his rant comes off as a little girl who was turned down by the boy of her dreams.

Boo hoo, he doesn't love me. So if he won't love me, i'll make sure he doesn't love anyone else.

I do think he's making this personal and I do think it has a negative effect on the organization as a whole.

While I can certainly see the worth in sticking to your guns, at some point in time something should be done on the business front to make an effort to improve your team and move on from such issues that linger. I also think undrafted free agents looking at what is going on in Cincinnati would be turned off from wanting to come here. The same can be said for veteran free agents and why I am more worried than I have been in regards to JJoe.

If you are JJoe and watching what Mike Brown said in his interview, are you thinking to yourself: "God I really want to play here" ??

Why on earth would JJoe want to stay in Cincinnati ?? He will certainly have equal, if not better, offers to play for a contender.

If nothing else, to play for an organization that isn't viewed as a laughing stock.

I'm really not happy at all with how this has turned out.

I completely agree with you.

Mike Brown isn't taking a "hard line stance" on remaining "loyal" and "playing out your contract". His stance is based on FEAR. Fear that he will lose control and a fear that "once one leaves, they all will leave".

Don't buy into this facade. MB is the SAME person that talks about LOYALTY but would bend over and kiss Carson's ass REWARDING him with a starting position if he came back. MB would let Carson be the starting QB despite his teammates say in unison that it is TIME TO MOVE ON WITHOUT HIM. You can't have a quitter as a starting QB...but given the chance that's exactly what MB would allow Carson to do. There's nothing honorable and loyal about that.

[ArmyBengal]

The thought that Mike Brown would welcome Carson back as the starter after all of this sickens me to death.

It makes me wonder what Mike Brown's definition of leadership is.

If the Bengals can still manage to get JJoe back and be able to move Palmer after the season, I guess it could be viewed as a good thing, but it doesn't make his line of thought in the now better. I simply think in this instance, he's wrong. I can kind of get where's he coming from, but you can't let things get personal and that is what I feel he has done. I would rather the team just move on and clear this from the table of discussion.

[membengal]

Wah. Carson palmer was so oppressed! Poor poor carson palmer! Why must quitters never be accommodated? Wah!

[membengal]

Why should j-Joe care about this? Is he planning on taking a massive signing bonus and then quitting too?

[ArmyBengal]

Wah. Carson palmer was so oppressed! Poor poor carson palmer! Why must quitters never be accommodated? Wah!

I never said any such thing and have gone so far as to say it does my heart good to know the quitting little bitch won't be taking snaps for us this season. However, it pains me to know Mike Brown would take that quitting bitch back in a heartbeat if given the opportunity and I think the team simply needs to rid itself of the issue altogether. Simply said, I think it benefits the team more than anything else and that should be more important than whatever Carson does after his Bengals career came to an end.

Why should j-Joe care about this? Is he planning on taking a massive signing bonus and then quitting too?

Why ?? Simple, if you were about to be a free agent and had simliar offers from the Bengals and name your team that is in line for post-season success, who do you choose ?? If you say the Bengals, I will call you a liar. I just don't see it. The only way it happens is if the Bengals give him a number that far exceeds what else is being offered. I would take less to get myself away from this organization and an owner that would rather stick it to a player that no longer wants to be here, as opposed to at least trying to improve the team.

Thinking the other players don't see what is going on is a head in the sand move.

[HoosierCat]

I think Wetzel hits the right notes here.

/>http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=AuDALnTMU.wtSyPjT9t5ut85nYcB?slug=dw-wetzel_carson_palmer_mike_brown_bengals072611

[ArmyBengal]

Of course i'm going to agree with what Wetzel said in his article, but the last two sentences really hit home.

By not rewarding Palmer with his freedom, Brown thinks he’s punishing him.

He should stop worrying about hurting his last quarterback and start thinking about helping his next.

I believe that first comment about Brown thinking he's punishing Palmer is right. He comes off like a scorned woman and it wouldn't surprise me in the least if Mike Brown sleeps well for the remainder of the season regardless of their record knowing he punished Palmer.

The last sentence is a no brainer except for Mike Brown. Does anyone really want to argue that point ??

Don't get me wrong, I can find reasons to agree with the other line of thought and as I said yesterday, i'm going to be angered anyway this works out, but I truly think Mike Brown is f*cking this up really bad.

[walzav29]

Why hasn't he filed his retirement papers yet? I guess he's hoping Brown will trade him, so there is no rush.

[COB]

Someone pointed out that we can't use the draft picks until next year anyway. So if he's actually worth anything on the open market, he can be traded right before next year's draft, correct?

Other teams aren't going to watch an ESPN highlight reel of '05 Palmer. They are going to analyze every throw he made last year. Maybe a year off will do him good. As it is, we are better off without him.

Let's face it, he got to bring in his handpicked hall of fame receiver, boasted before the season started that we'd go to the Super Bowl, got the running offense converted back to a throwing offense, then went out and won a whopping 4 games.

4 games. And that is after an organization catered to him and built an offense around him. Carson Palmer is not a winner, and he can only play football where his wife mommy lets him.

[HoosierCat]

Someone pointed out that we can't use the draft picks until next year anyway. So if he's actually worth anything on the open market, he can be traded right before next year's draft, correct?

Absolutely. But it's a debatable point whether they could have gotten more for him now versus next year. Reports are that the Dolphins went after Orton only after calling the Bengals and being told they weren't trading Palmer. So were he available, we know Miami would have been interested, and I think it likely Seattle, San Fran and possible Arizona would have jumped in, too.

Maybe there's still similar interest in 2012, maybe not. All we can do is wait and see.

[ArmyBengal]

I could still see Palmer ending up in San Fran next season.

They only extended Alex Smith for a single season and have Kaepernick from the draft.

I could easily see them looking to simply wait it out for Palmer.

[HairOnFire]

The last sentence is a no brainer except for Mike Brown. Does anyone really want to argue that point ??

You know I will.

So let's take a look at it. From the salty Wetzle......

"He should stop worrying about hurting his last quarterback and start thinking about helping his next."

My first reaction? As the team's owner/president/defacto GM/high muckity-muck...it's actually Mike Brown's job to handle both tasks. One doesn't negate the other. Furthermore, the rant that claims Brown is hurting the Bengals by not trading Palmer now is utterly false precisely because it's based upon the premise that Palmer can't or won't be traded in the future. Last, Brown isn't hurting Palmer. Palmer is hurting Palmer.

So that takes care of the first part of the sentence. Now let's look at the bit about helping his next QB. Ready?

Point blank, isn't that exactly what Mike Brown has done?

Consider, since Carson Palmer's Camp went public Brown has hired a new OC to install a new offensive scheme, then drafted a new #1 WR, and most recently....signed a veteran QB to mentor Dalton and allow him to sit until he's ready to play based upon merit, not neccessity. The Bengals have also made clear that adding offensive line help and retaining Cedric Benson are their two offensive priorities in free agency. So, while Mike Brown allows the Palmer Situation to play out however it may, who can argue that Brown isn't doing everything within his control to help Dalton?

[HairOnFire]

Why hasn't he filed his retirement papers yet? I guess he's hoping Brown will trade him, so there is no rush.

Again, based upon Jason LaCanfora's take of the situation, Palmer has no real incentive to file retirement papers because it won't gain him the leverage some claim it will. Furthermore, filing retirement papers could be detrimental to Palmer's desire for a trade since it could be seen as a needless complication or as a factor that might reduce a bidding teams level of interest. Finally, LaCanfora speculated that Palmer has no incentive to file his retirement papers until after the trade deadline has passed.

[HairOnFire]

Someone pointed out that we can't use the draft picks until next year anyway. So if he's actually worth anything on the open market, he can be traded right before next year's draft, correct?

Absolutely. But it's a debatable point whether they could have gotten more for him now versus next year. Reports are that the Dolphins went after Orton only after calling the Bengals and being told they weren't trading Palmer. So were he available, we know Miami would have been interested, and I think it likely Seattle, San Fran and possible Arizona would have jumped in, too.

Maybe there's still similar interest in 2012, maybe not. All we can do is wait and see.

If the Bengals are willing to trade Palmer next season there will be interest. Furthermore, I'm betting the trade return next year will be equal to OR greater than this year.

And again, the Seattle trade rumor that was floated just prior to that team signing Tavaris Jackson had the Seahawks offering just a 3rd and a 5th for Palmer.

So how many of you would be willing to sell your football soul for as little as THAT?

[ArmyBengal]

The last sentence is a no brainer except for Mike Brown. Does anyone really want to argue that point ??

You know I will.

So let's take a look at it. From the salty Wetzle......

"He should stop worrying about hurting his last quarterback and start thinking about helping his next."

My first reaction? As the team's owner/president/defacto GM/high muckity-muck...it's actually Mike Brown's job to handle both tasks. One doesn't negate the other. Furthermore, the rant that claims Brown is hurting the Bengals by not trading Palmer now is utterly false precisely because it's based upon the premise that Palmer can't or won't be traded in the future. Last, Brown isn't hurting Palmer. Palmer is hurting Palmer.

So that takes care of the first part of the sentence. Now let's look at the bit about helping his next QB. Ready?

Point blank, isn't that exactly what Mike Brown has done?

Consider, since Carson Palmer's Camp went public Brown has hired a new OC to install a new offensive scheme, then drafted a new #1 WR, and most recently....signed a veteran QB to mentor Dalton and allow him to sit until he's ready to play based upon merit, not neccessity. The Bengals have also made clear that adding offensive line help and retaining Cedric Benson are their two offensive priorities in free agency. So, while Mike Brown allows the Palmer Situation to play out however it may, who can argue that Brown isn't doing everything within his control to help Dalton?

Well, I knew you would take this on Hair and believe it or not, I found myself agreeing with most of your last longer post, but just can't get by some little things.

Just because they may trade Palmer next season doesn't mean he isn't hurting the Bengals THIS season. You don't need to look any further than an unproven Kolb looking to net a pick AND a player. Looking at our unknown situation with JJoe, I would view Rogers-Cromartie as a viable backup and would certainly help things. I doesn't have to be just him, another team could net another player, but Mike Brown isn't willing. So yes, I think that hurts the team THIS year. Next year ?? Well, that remains to be seen, but the statement stands until he's traded in my eyes. I agree that Palmer is hurting Palmer as well though.

I love what else has been done to this point to assist Dalton is being all he can be as the starter. However, Mike Brown has also been quoted that he would take Palmer back with no thought and he would be the starter. Why would you leave something like that lingering over the head of the rookie you are trying to ease into the leadership role of the team ?? What does it tell the team that the owner is so willing to shelf the guy they drafted in favor of a quitter that many of the players have outwardly rejected in thoughts of return ?? You can't think that has a positive effect on the team overall right ??

Again, I have stated that you could argue both points and be right, but my thoughts lead me to believe that Brown is just taking the whole thing a bit more personal than he needs to and he's allowing it to cloud his business decisions. I don't buy for one minute the thought that allowing Palmer to force the issue would lead other to do the same either. I think that line is nothing but bullsh*t to mask the butthurt he's feeling.

[bwillycuse]

Someone pointed out that we can't use the draft picks until next year anyway. So if he's actually worth anything on the open market, he can be traded right before next year's draft, correct?

Absolutely. But it's a debatable point whether they could have gotten more for him now versus next year. Reports are that the Dolphins went after Orton only after calling the Bengals and being told they weren't trading Palmer. So were he available, we know Miami would have been interested, and I think it likely Seattle, San Fran and possible Arizona would have jumped in, too.

Maybe there's still similar interest in 2012, maybe not. All we can do is wait and see.

If the Bengals are willing to trade Palmer next season there will be interest. Furthermore, I'm betting the trade return next year will be equal to OR greater than this year.

And again, the Seattle trade rumor that was floated just prior to that team signing Tavaris Jackson had the Seahawks offering just a 3rd and a 5th for Palmer.

So how many of you would be willing to sell your football soul for as little as THAT?

A 3rd and a 5th? Nah, Palmer can sit and watch on Sundays while his wife nags and his kids scream. He will be yearning for the good ol days as the leader of an NFL football team vs being second fiddle in his own house.

3rd and a 5th is not much at all.

He gave us fans a big middle finger. Ill be giving it back for many, many years. I hope we can get more for him next year. But in the meantime, he is getting what he asked for. More time with family.

Maybe he is beloved in the USC ranks, but he burned his bridge in Cincy as far as I am concerned.

What happens if he shows up to play. What if he shows up and tanks on purpose. Can the Bengals send him home?

[HairOnFire]

Well, I knew you would take this on Hair and believe it or not, I found myself agreeing with most of your last longer post, but just can't get by some little things.

Just because they may trade Palmer next season doesn't mean he isn't hurting the Bengals THIS season. You don't need to look any further than an unproven Kolb looking to net a pick AND a player.

Aren't you forgetting something? Specifically, how Palmer's actions have selfishly wrecked all of this teams previous long-term planning and jeapordized the competitive futures of everyone who remains on the roster?

The two situations are vastly different.

I agree that Palmer is hurting Palmer as well though.

And if Palmer is hurting Palmer why do so many of you react by blaming Brown or by suggesting that he's trying to hurt Palmer, as Wetzle claimed. Wasn't it Palmer who chose to put his own career in jeapordy? Wasn't it Palmer who has threatened to retire? Doesn't Palmer have full and complete control over whether his career continues or sputters out like a near silent fart cast upon the wind?

IMHO Brown got it exactly right the other day and those of you who claim he's hurting Palmer have got it exactly wrong. Brown isn't hurting Palmer. In fact, he's done nothing that even qualifies as a threat. Rather, Brown simply isn't willing to reward Palmer, or show him any consideration whatsoever, now that Palmer has acted entirely in his own interests. Nor should he.

...Mike Brown has also been quoted that he would take Palmer back with no thought and he would be the starter. Why would you leave something like that lingering over the head of the rookie you are trying to ease into the leadership role of the team ??

Why would you take Palmer back? Because right now he's better than Dalton and he gives the 52 other guys on the roster a better chance to win. And yeah, you take him back precisely because having firm control over contract bound players is something worth fighting for.