2022 Offseason Roster Notes

[HoosierCat]

4 hours ago, COB said:

They can’t be that far apart, there is no way they have wildly different views of his value.  

Hahahahahahaha! Ahhhh…hahahahahahahahahahaha! Hahaha…whew…that’s a real knee-slapper there COB, thanks for the laugh.

[membengal]

5 hours ago, COB said:

I am surprised by this drawn-out negotiation with Bates.  He just did the now standard scrubbing of anything bengals related from his IG.  Seems like a pretty straightforward negotiation.  He’s a leader, been very good for us, has a lot left in the tank.

They can’t be that far apart, there is no way they have wildly different views of his value.  

Top of the S market thanks to that crazy contract Adams signed with Seattle is 18 million. The tag is 13 million. Bates hired an agent who demand top dollar. I am pretty sure he's being tagged. That's a lot of money that could be used between 13 and 18 for linemen.

[membengal]

8 minutes ago, HoosierCat said:

Hahahahahahaha! Ahhhh…hahahahahahahahahahaha! Hahaha…whew…that’s a real knee-slapper there COB, thanks for the laugh.

 But the hangup is probably legitimate. Not sure 18 million per is great when we need to sign the line we need to sign.

[AMPHAR]

Bates is a stretch at anything near 14m a year,IMO.   There’s good FA safeties this year so market value won’t be a mystery. 
 

Bates is a classic PFF darling.  Does a lot of stuff well but you need these analytics to tell you he’s elite.   You aren’t watching Ed Reed out there. 

[ShulaSteakhouse]

1 hour ago, AMPHAR said:

Bates is a stretch at anything near 14m a year,IMO.   There’s good FA safeties this year so market value won’t be a mystery. 
 

Bates is a classic PFF darling.  Does a lot of stuff well but you need these analytics to tell you he’s elite.   You aren’t watching Ed Reed out there. 

Cover safeties aren't as noticeable,  but yes he's not Ed Reed. 

I think it's important to keep the defense together.  I hope he accepts a tag designation.  Cut salary elsewhere if needed.

If it were me, I'd trade or release Mixon (easiliy replaceable).  :)

 

 

 

[ArmyBengal]

You know… I really hate it when players think they are making a statement when they remove the team name from their Twitter account or stop following the team.

Oh no, not that !! Anything but that.
Most millennial bullshit, childish nonsense ever.

Guess where you are playing in 2022 Jessie ??
So dumb…

[ArmyBengal]

Not to mention that if they can’t work a long term deal before the cut off, they can always tag him again next season for less than what he’s looking for in a long term deal.  This is the smartest move the team can make when you think about it.  With the o-line being the most important thing to address, Bates can wait.

I say this while thinking the best of Bates as a player and wanting to see him in stripes for many years to come. 

[TJJackson]

There are many players who understand that the team needs money to put other quality players around them to best ensure team success

Of these, however, very very few assent to being paid less than absolute top dollar so that this can occur

I had thought Bates was one of the few, but his actions (so far) here at contract renewal time unfortunately say otherwise

I still love the player, want him in tiger stripes long term and all that; but this revises my opinion of him as a person a bit

and yes, I get that everyone (not just football, but everyone reading this) should try to maximize income.  I am good with that up to a point, that point being twofold: 

1. with the millions a player like Bates will make, that next million really isnt gonna make much difference.   He is and will be a multi millionaire.  He has and will have more than enough money for him and his family to live well for many generations to come.  You and me, making much much MUCH less than that?  Even an extra 1000 a year makes a difference

2. You and I are not (unlike Bates) subject to the salary cap nor the scarcity of Superbowl wins.

[ArmyBengal]

Bates is going to make at least 13 million next year. I’m all about players getting all they can while they can, but taking care of mom and family must be harder these days.

Not that it matters AT ALL but it would take most of us a fuck load of time to make 13 million. At my current salary I’m going to need to average life span for men to increase a couple more life times.

[AMPHAR]

From another board and “sources” Bates asking price is 18/20 mil range, lol

Yeah I understand these rumors can be fake but hard pass on that. 

[membengal]

It is why there is an impasse. tag is 13. tag it will be. 

[TJJackson]

I am hearing Bozeman doesnt fit our scheme

True? 

Untrue?

Maybe someone on this board has a local connection to Baltimore

Maybe

[membengal]

He isn't a natural wide zone fit. limited athleticism. But he is a mauler. 

[COB]

18-20 million?  He better have a talk with his agent.  
 

If he’s tagged, has a season like this last one, but then can’t step it up during the playoffs ala 2021, what then?  
 

Or let’s say he’s having a ‘21 season, decent but not great, then he wrecks his knee in December. It’s a year to recover.  ‘23 is shot.  
 

“Betting on yourself” works great.  Until it doesn’t.  
 

Nerlens Noel and Dennis Schroder come to mind.  Le’veon Bell.  And Bates could really join those guys.  He really could.  

[HoosierCat]

Bates tagged, per Rapoport.

[membengal]

Good timing - that will get lost in the news avalanche over Calvin Ridey.

[HoosierCat]

Per various Twitter reports:

Executive VP Katie Blackburn: “Jessie has been an outstanding player here for four years. Over the past year we've tried to extend his contract...we want him here for 2022 to be a part of what we think should be an exciting football season and bright future for our organization.”

Head Coach Zac Taylor on Bates: “Jessie has been an important part of this organization both on the field and in the locker room. I’m excited about the opportunity for Jessie to be with us again this year as we continue to improve our team.”

Make of that what you will.

[ArmyBengal]

He wants more than the team is willing to pay when considering all other aspects/ needs of the team. Maybe after free agency the team will have a better idea of what they can afford.

If not, they may decide the safety position can be handled differently. I still want him here long term however.

[HoosierCat]

There’s also the option to tag him again. Next year’s would be 20% more than this year’s, and a third and final tag in 2024 44% over that. In total that would probably be about $45-50 million for 3 years. Bates wouldn’t like it I’m sure but he can cry all the way to the bank.

[ArmyBengal]

Yep, next year’s tag would still be lower than the reported 18-20 million him and his agent are looking for.

[Wraith]

The franchise tag is a raw deal for the player anyway you slice it.  It isn't about the money it is about lifetime earnings.  Let's say Bates plays this year under the franchise tag and has a massive knee injury and is out for two seasons.  The Bengals cut him lose after 2022 and he makes 13 mil.  If he had signed a market value contract he would sign something like 4 years 55 million with 28-30 guaranteed.  Coming back after two years of sitting out at 27 years out he will be on the year to year train making 4-5 million a year, he has just cut his career earnings to a third of what he could and should have made....

[membengal]

He could sign a compromise deal now that would hedge against that possibility. He does not HAVE to go for $20 million per (the reported range of his current ask). The Bengals are within their rights to say no to that and use the tag. 

[AMPHAR]

43 minutes ago, Wraith said:

The franchise tag is a raw deal for the player anyway you slice it.  It isn't about the money it is about lifetime earnings.  Let's say Bates plays this year under the franchise tag and has a massive knee injury and is out for two seasons.  The Bengals cut him lose after 2022 and he makes 13 mil.  If he had signed a market value contract he would sign something like 4 years 55 million with 28-30 guaranteed.  Coming back after two years of sitting out at 27 years out he will be on the year to year train making 4-5 million a year, he has just cut his career earnings to a third of what he could and should have made....

One sided view.   "Life time earnings"  is a risk to ownership that is pre paying for services based on historical information.   There are a ton of players reaching that second contract that simply never live up to it.    Players that over perform their 2nd contract have threatened sitting out.  

The players collectively bargain the tag concept and have never struck over it.  Thus the Bengals are well within their rights to use it.  Bates would be in his rights to refuse to play under it.  

Players don't want to accept a system of 1 year contracts so this is what you get.  Owners don't want to give player freedom so they have to deal with hold outs.

No one is getting a raw deal.  This is the system they accept and live under.

If either party doesn't like it then go create some new football league that's going to give you this earning opportunity without some similar headache.   I doubt they can and that's why the system exist as it does today.

 

 

 

 

[HoosierCat]

The franchise tag being something that the players collectively bargain, and a raw deal, are not mutually exclusive. Compromises are like that, they have ups and downs for both sides.

The bottom line is that this isn't an ideal situation for either Bates or the Bengals. The tag pays Bates well but provides zero long-term security. The tag keeps Bates on the roster but provides the Bengals with no long-term solution at the position and eliminates $13 million in cap space at a stroke.

FWIW I don't believe the "Bates wants $18-20 million a year" rumors, or that the Bengals are being any more frugal that usual in their offer. My guess is that the main issue isn't about total money, but rather the infamous "structure," i.e. guaranteed coin. But that's just my $0.02. They have several months now to keep working on a deal, so we'll just have to see if anything gets done.

[HoosierCat]

Ok here’s a wrinkle per Pelissero:

With less than 45 minutes left to the deadline, eight franchise tags have been used -- all non-exclusive, meaning another team could sign the player to an offer sheet if they're willing to give up two first-round picks. 

A rarity, but these are wild times in the NFL.
 

OK do you take 2 firsts for Bates?

I think I do.