Ravens Game 2.0 Thread

[ShulaSteakhouse]

19 minutes ago, volcom69 said:

Can they get somebody who has called plays before to come in and coach. I think Taylor is terrible at calling plays, and trying to be a head coach, he is very lost out there. Taylor needs to be the head coach not a play caller!!!

Oh and fire this crappy DC who never has an answer for anything! What an embarrassing squad they look like a crappy high school defense!

Entire defensive coaching staff needs to be scrapped.   That said, Taylor quickly found out no one good/experienced wants to come here right now.  I don't see that changing any time soon.

[COB]

Gerry Sandusky, (no relation) Ravens radio announcer on today’s broadcast, after the second Bmore TD:

“Two of the seven fans that showed up just got up and left the game.  The other five are wearing Ravens jerseys.”

[volcom69]

Yea when the broadcasters on every side are making fun of the bengals, or when the broadcasters are questioning the coaches all game, tells you we are in a very sad state right now.

Some might not want to believe we are back in the 90s but it sure feels that way. We have a long way to go, till they dig themselves out of all of this. It’s getting harder every year to be patient, best find better things to do then watch or care about football for a bit.

[kingwilly]

I trust the coaches to rebuild. Woe is this. 

[HoosierCat]

7 hours ago, kingwilly said:

I trust the coaches to rebuild. Woe is this. 

I don’t trust these coaches to order lunch.

[AMPHAR]

I don't trust the coaches or Tobin to rebuild.   It happened in recent history going from a dark and gloomy to 2008 to a run of playoffs 6 out of 7 years.

The big questions are:

1. How much influence from Tobin created that run?    They had:

Marvin - drafting seems to improve drastically since the day he arrived.  Typically injury derailed his biggest failure.  So I'm sure he had a big influence.

Zimmer - He could find guys to play the way he wanted

Gurden - Key factor in getting Dalton up to speed.  Miss badly on that pick and the whole thing collaspes

Hue - Got the best season out of Dalton and pretty good offensive coach

These guys have had varying degrees of failure and success as head coaches BUT they excelled as assistance everyone of them earned their way up.   So clearly they know football.   Do the Bengals have that now?

2nd biggest question:  How long does this go?   IF Zac and Tobin continue to flounder.   How long does it go?   Do we get the typical Brown Family slow to change and it's 5/6 years?     I doubt they act like a competent NFL franchise and changer the staff a second time in 3 years running the risk of paying guys while not working for them.

Who gets most credit for scouting Dalton?  Developing Dalton?   Because they are faced with an important QB question again and they are on a streak of drafting 2 playoff QBs.    Getting that part right is a huge factor.

 

[HoosierCat]

Dalton was all Gruden, selection-wise, and anyone who helped develop him is gone.

I have to think the last draft was largely driven by the organization (so Tobin & Co.) if only because the coaching staff took so long to assemble, so the team didn’t have its usual cadre of coaches to help scout. So we will (or may) see what a “normal” year brings with more coaching input.

I say may there because I have trouble seeing how Taylor survives this disaster. To repost something from a month ago that has not changed at all:

Change in wins for Bengals head coaches in their first full year vs. prior season:

Marvin Lewis +6

Dick LeBeau +2

Dave Shula +2

Forest Gregg +2

Sam Wyche +1

Homer Rice 0

Bruce Coslet -1

Bill Johnson -1

Zac Taylor -6 (so far)

Taylor only has 7 games left. If he ran the table (and he won’t) he’d still have a worse debut than...Dave Shula. All signs are that he will be the worst first-year coach in franchise history, especially now that they’ve gone into “evaluation” mode.

And I get that more involved fans, like the kind that post on forums or twitter, understand that the record no longer matters and this is basically an extended 2020 preseason, etc. But all the casual fans know is they suck and Dalton sucks and the D sucks and now Finley sucks and Mike Brown sucks yadda yadda yadda. And that means they ain’t buying tix, they ain’t buying merch, and any companies interested in luxury boxes or sponsorship/ad opportunities sure aren’t paying top dollar. And if they do end up winning 0 or 1-2 games and make no changes interest will crater even more.

How much is Taylors fault I don’t know, but the way it’s going I don’t know how you keep him.

 

[ShulaSteakhouse]

I don't how you keep him either, but they likely will, not much choice, who wants this job that's worth a damn? Plus MB and his loyalty.

I don't know how they're going to sell any of this to the fan base either.  They are clinging to aging vets who aren't producing and drafting guys who suck and not developing others.  It's a mess only really, really good evaluators and football people can fix, Taylor doesn't strike me as capable of doing that.

Funny that Taylor is going to be at/on Bengals Line tonight along with half the team, likely trying to sell himself.  Marvin usually called-in for a segment, but who wants to listen to Taylor's company speak about "liking the guys we have" and "trending in the right direction?" Utter nonsense.

 

[volcom69]

I never thought anybody could make me miss Marvin, but he was actually a good coach. He took this shitty org and made the playoffs. He could never get over the hump, but there was always that chance. He had fantastic coaches here at one time, and to tell you the truth I miss Hue as an offense coordinator around here. Best I ever seen the offense move.

I don’t get any of that from this guy, i feel he is so raw along with these other coaches that it’s going to take years for him to even learn how to be a head coach. It really showed yesterday as he looked very clueless at times, and the broadcasters even pointed it out. 
 

With MB as owner this team needs an experienced HC who is good with really good assistance, to teach. But like others have said who is going to want to coach here. 
 

Im just not sure Taylor is made to be a NFL head coach, the assistants are terrible. Even with who this team is they should not be winless. The more talented guys are looking terrible, they can’t tackle, they can’t block, they can’t throw. Zac looks like he is calling a High School football game, nothing is right about this team. I really wouldn’t mind a new HC to pick his QB and build this team back up, but I’m sure that won’t happen or who would even want the job.

[AMPHAR]

Eh,  Zac should get more than a first year.         We have scrubs starting on the o-line which wasn't the plan.    Even if their initial plan prevailed many on this board were still concerned about the o-line.

The first guy to get fired to should be Tobin because he's the only one left that has had a hand in the disaster that is the offensive line.   Lewis, Alexander, Pollack all gone.

Jordan is the only guy that's played the current staff has drafted.   He's been horrible.  The rest are Lewis era players and anchor sinking player personnel moves.

You gonna fire Zac Taylor because some genius decided to draft Price over Lamar Jackson?  Is it this staff's fault Price isn't good?  He wasn't good last year. 

Defense is even worse.  They guys they invested in,  just suck.  They've sucked to historical levels 2 years in a row.   The College Coordinator they tried to hire said point blank there isn't talent.    The response was "What about the D-line?".    That D-line is living off reputation built under Zimmer/Pauly G.    They don't get pressure and they don't get off blocks.   Sure the LBs aren't good but that D-line doesn't destroy run blocking schemes at all.    Been a problem 2 years now. 

It sucks.   But this is just a the after math of them trying to extend the 2015 run under Lewis and horrific bad o-line pick. 

 

[HoosierCat]

Duke Tobin won’t be fired. They could go 0-1,000 and Tobin would stay. He’s essentially part of The Family and has demonstrated his loyalty by turning down chances to go elsewhere.

[volcom69]

Even if Taylor stays they need a new OL, DC, and OC.

He needs to let a OC call plays and he needs to worry about being a HC, and making this team better.

When you watch this team it’s like watching a team without a direction, or a team that is so lost, and there HC is worried about calling plays. 

[COB]

20 hours ago, volcom69 said:

I never thought anybody could make me miss Marvin,

Me neither, and I was right.  Marvin puts you in nfl purgatory, especially with Mike making the decisions.  He won just enough to give Mike hope that he’d “get over the hump” (an expression I’ve grown to hate).  Thus Mike felt his methods were validated, thus more years of Mike’s methods. 
 

Zac over Marvin any day.  Reveal this thing for the shit show it truly is.  Maybe now something will change, though I honestly doubt it.

[Wraith]

Knute Rockne, Don Shula, and Bill Belichek all combined into one could not win with the crap they have been rolling out on the offensive live and the middle tier of the defense.   This is all on Mike's head.  that being said, Marvin would not have let it come to this, he would have forced the issue.  Taylor does not have that power being a first time HC. 

Getting the #1 pick and drafting a QB will not fix this either....Get a ***damn scouting staff that is more than a couple of family and friends, hire a GM would looks at the NFL the way it is now and not back in good ole days.  This is a multi year rebuilding program.  The lack of aggressiveness or creativity leading up the to trade deadline really chaps my ass....

Anyone who thinks AJ Green is going to sign up to spend his last productive years with this two bit, cheap ass organization is living in a pipe dream.

 

 

[AMPHAR]

If we had Marvin we'd be cruising towards a stellar 4 win? 6 win?  season.    Cruising right down the draft board also.    We'd have Hue on some retention plan to be future Head Coach.    Cruising towards another few years of Dalton.

Yes,  all that's better than 0-9.    Very few Bengal fans wanted that a year ago.    Marvin and crew was stale.    If you aren't willing to give Zac Taylor more than a year then aren't you saying you accept mediocrity?    There was a thin argument for hope off the basis of them being 4-1 at a point in 2018.  Then injuries happened.  Then the lack of depth exposed.    

If they would have attempted to hire Hue Jackson a Marvin clone and Dalton whisperer there would have been out rage.  Hue probably would have had a win by now.   Do we pretend that's what we wanted? 

This is why a lot of Bengal fans come off as whiney.   Taking this chance with Zac is what a lot of Bengal fans wanted.    It's not working.    So let's fire everyone and pretend we'd be happy with a losing record in a different form.

Just face it.   We want instant success.  If we get that 1 playoff win then we'll complain about not going further.   Any losing will be met with a transport back to 1991.    That's what we do.

 

 

 

[volcom69]

2 hours ago, COB said:

Me neither, and I was right.  Marvin puts you in nfl purgatory, especially with Mike making the decisions.  He won just enough to give Mike hope that he’d “get over the hump” (an expression I’ve grown to hate).  Thus Mike felt his methods were validated, thus more years of Mike’s methods. 
 

Zac over Marvin any day.  Reveal this thing for the shit show it truly is.  Maybe now something will change, though I honestly doubt it.

That’s just it I’m not sure it will ever change, hopefully something does but I won’t hold my breathe

[AMPHAR]

2 hours ago, Wraith said:

Knute Rockne, Don Shula, and Bill Belichek all combined into one could not win with the crap they have been rolling out on the offensive live and the middle tier of the defense.   This is all on Mike's head.  that being said, Marvin would not have let it come to this, he would have forced the issue.  Taylor does not have that power being a first time HC. 

Getting the #1 pick and drafting a QB will not fix this either....Get a ***damn scouting staff that is more than a couple of family and friends, hire a GM would looks at the NFL the way it is now and not back in good ole days.  This is a multi year rebuilding program.  The lack of aggressiveness or creativity leading up the to trade deadline really chaps my ass....

Anyone who thinks AJ Green is going to sign up to spend his last productive years with this two bit, cheap ass organization is living in a pipe dream.

 

 

Actually Marvin did let it come to this.   I'm not sure how it could be seen any other way.   He's apart of the mess that is the offensive line which is at the top of the list of problems along with his under performing D-line.

[Scottishbengal]

4 minutes ago, AMPHAR said:

If you aren't willing to give Zac Taylor more than a year then aren't you saying you accept mediocrity?    

No, not at all.

ZT has had long enough to prove he doesn't know what the hell he's doing. There was a reason he was a positional coach not a co-ordinator. There was a reason he wasn't permitted to call plays for the Rams. The Bengals are finding that out now. But who else wanted the gig??? No-one.

ZT is far too inexperienced in not only running a team but also in negotiating/manipulating the owners to allow a strong Free Agency to bring in decent pieces to fill glaring holes.

ZT is mediocre, period, -  which is why fans are upset because they DON'T want to accept that mediocrity.

The owners on the other seem very prepared to accept it.

[HoosierCat]

To me, the question of whether Zac should stay or not is secondary. As Shula’s already noted, no one good is coming here in the event the job opens up, so I’m a shrug either way. If he goes, fine, if he stays, fine.

The more interesting question IMHO is, what can he survive? The Bengals have never brought back a coach that did worse than 3-13. LeBeau got fired after 2-14 and they’ve never won fewer than those 2. Coslet and Shula both survived a 3-13 year (Shula actually survived back-to-back 3-13’s). Wyche did not.

[AMPHAR]

19 hours ago, Scottishbengal said:

No, not at all.

ZT has had long enough to prove he doesn't know what the hell he's doing. There was a reason he was a positional coach not a co-ordinator. There was a reason he wasn't permitted to call plays for the Rams. The Bengals are finding that out now. But who else wanted the gig??? No-one.

ZT is far too inexperienced in not only running a team but also in negotiating/manipulating the owners to allow a strong Free Agency to bring in decent pieces to fill glaring holes.

ZT is mediocre, period, -  which is why fans are upset because they DON'T want to accept that mediocrity.

The owners on the other seem very prepared to accept it.

Absolutely it says that.   Back in July there wasn't a strong belief this was a playoff team or even a .500 team.   That's back when you could assume they'd have all the key parts they haven't had.    The only sliver of hope was the fact they went 4-1 during 2018.  But it wasn't a strong hope at all.

Back in July if you told people  no AJ.  No Jonah.  No Cordy Glenn.  No Boling. Billy Price benched.   They would have this team down as a winless team or very close to it. 

So if you are willing to dump a coach after 9 games with those observations; that says PANIC.    There was a slim to zero chance this team could have been a 6/7 win team.   So wanting to dump a coach with those observations after 9 losses says IF he would win (insert number) of games it would be acceptable because there was no chance they were making the playoffs this year.

[AMPHAR]

To me benching of Dalton signifies the end of his time with the team starting next year.    I don't think they would have done that IF the new Head Coach was in danger of losing his job.

So,  the real question in my mind is do we get to Year 3 IF Year 2 doesn't show improvement.    Then IF they get to year 3 with little improvement then how long of rope do they have.

Cause some how Shula got to 1996.   Coslet got to 2000.   Lebeau got to 2002.   And we know Marvin got to 2018.     Coslet, Lebeau, and Shula stayed a couple years too long.  Marvin had 9 lives and overcome horrific underperformance in just about every critical game he coached.

Then IF there is going to be a change does Tobin go with it?   Because he was the point man according to reports.   Speculation has him as having a big say in personnel.