Time to begin the rebuild

[membengal]

...

[membengal]

1 hour ago, cincyhokie said:

 

Thanks so much for that.

[volcom69]

You can not pass up on a talent like this especially at the QB spot. I get that there are holes on this team, but Mike Brown needs to suck it up and get some free agents to sign here. Sign a good LB, and an OL, but you can not pass on Burrow.

You draft Burrow and you build your team around him you build your offense scheme around him. If this team is to fail Burrow it’s because of these coaches here, and that is the only thing that worries me about him. This guy is so awesome to watch when plays break down, and he can make something when nothing is there. 
 

Draft Burrow!! 

[COB]

Burrow is the pick.  He’s such a consensus number 1 that even Mike can’t blow this.  

[TJJackson]

if they do this, they need (to protect said investment) the next two picks to be pass blocking OL, one of which needs to be a ORT

 

[AMPHAR]

If Daryl Williams from the Panthers hits FA, then you have to make a play for him at RT.    That's assuming they want to win.

That's as best impact Free Agent offensive line has seen since we dumbly let Whitworth and Zeitler waltz into unrestricted FA.

I do not know what the offensive line FA looks like this year.   Last year was crap.    Supposed to be a deep class of tackles although Leatherwood from Bama is staying.  Whitworth could hit FA this year too.   He certainly would be better than anything they have right now at any spot. 

I would only disagree that I would rather have more of a run road grader over a pass protector at RT.   You get that for Mixon and that's a ton of protection for Burrow.   

 

[membengal]

Never know where to put stuff, so I will put this here - Bruce Feldman talked to SEC d-coordinators about facing LSU's offense - great read, here's the stuff from that:

https://theathletic.com/1510408/2020/01/06/scouting-lsu-what-coaches-who-faced-the-tigers-say-about-the-national-championship-finalists/

Quote

 

You don’t need to be Bill Belichick to see that LSU has gone from having a pedestrian offense to the most explosive attack in college football.

But as the Tigers, already winners of six Top 10 matchups this season, prepare for their toughest test yet against defending national champion Clemson, The Athletic spoke with 10 rival coaches who have faced Ed Orgeron’s team to break down just what makes them so good — and perhaps where they are vulnerable.

One defensive coordinator who has faced the Tigers assessed what makes them special this way: “The QB is elite. They have elite skill. They are on a magic ride. Rarest of seasons. Joe (Burrow) makes is all go. Reminds me of 2012 Manziel at A&M. Appreciate what you’re watching. Wish I didn’t have to experience it. And to be clear … Burrow is 1,000 percent better than Manziel. But the momentum he creates is like a tidal wave.”

Burrow’s numbers this season are jaw-dropping. He’s completing 78 percent of his passes and has thrown for 5,208 yards to go with a mind-boggling 55-to-6 TD-to-INT ratio. Burrow’s wheels also have caused all sorts of headaches for defenses, too. He has run for almost 500 yards if you don’t factor in negative sack yardage.

“He’s as playing as high a level as I’ve ever defended,” says an SEC defensive coordinator who faced LSU in November. “He knows what he’s doing; knows where he wants to go with the ball and does everything really confidently. His ability to make plays with his feet when you do cover him, or when things break down, is the added element that is really challenging when you’re trying to set up a plan to stop him.”

Asked to explain what makes Burrow so special, one SEC head coach rattled off a bunch of things in one sentence that probably also sum up why so many NFL scouts think he’ll be the first pick of the 2020 draft: “His confidence, how accurate he is, and how quickly he makes decisions; his off-platform throws outside of the pocket; the way he extends plays with his feet and improvises and keep his eyes downfield and how quickly he gets it out of his hands, that is unique.”

Burrow ran away with the Heisman Trophy by the biggest margin ever in large part because of how efficiently he pilots this offense and is able to utilize an array of dangerous skill players and every inch of the field. LSU is the first team in SEC history with a 4,000-yard passer, a 1,000-yard rusher and two 1,000-yard receivers in the same season.

Burrow is just one of several offensive players who you could argue was the breakout star in the SEC. Sophomore receiver Ja’Marr Chase went from 23 catches for 313 yards last season to 75 for 1559 yards and 18 touchdowns and the Biletnikoff Award. Clyde Edwards-Helaire went from being a relative unknown commodity to rushing for 1,304 yards to go with 50 catches and becoming the top all-around running back in college football. Thaddeus Moss went from being a non-factor to becoming one of the most productive tight ends in FBS. Justin Jefferson, the former two-star recruit, is tied with Chase for the most touchdown receptions in the country. Sophomore Terrace Marshall has 12 TD grabs despite missing three games to injury. It truly has been a case of pick-your-poison for opposing defenses.

“When you listen to their kids talk, they are playing with supreme confidence,” an SEC head coach said. “That’s more than half the battle.

“You’re not gonna stop them. Your best hope is just to slow them down and hope they make a mistake. You gotta hope for a few three-and-outs. This is gonna sound strange, but it’s almost like old Arena ball, where you’re hoping for just field goals, not TDs.”

Beyond Burrow, the offensive player that coaches cited as the biggest challenge is Edwards-Helaire, the 5-7, 209-pound junior.

“No. 22 is special with the way they use him,” one coach said. “He runs the inside zone; they’ll line up him in field or boundary No. 1. He can free release out of the backfield. His is versatility is a big key.”

“No. 22 (Edwards-Helaire), that damn running back does a hell of a job,” says an SEC defensive backs coach. “If you don’t stop him, you don’t have a shot. I’d put him against any other SEC back. He makes two or three guys miss from Alabama and got the first down. Tough, hard runner. He almost always is making the first guy miss. He’ll run over you, too. He’s a real key to that deal. To us, he’s the real headache. They hit him out the backfield. He runs corner routes for touchdowns.”

Another defensive coordinator The Athletic spoke to says the biggest issue for his team was what Edwards-Helaire does as a receiver. “They’re a throw-first team, and you have to defend them that way, but you can’t lose sight of him. When you do try and play two-safety looks and play over the top of the receivers, he’s able to win one-on-one with a linebacker. It’ll be interesting to see what (Clemson defensive coordinator Brent Venables) does with (freakishly athletic LB Isaiah) Simmons and if they match up their best corner (A.J. Terrell) with Chase.

“Chase seems to make every competitive catch,” said one defensive coordinator who played LSU late in the season. “You see it on film all year, and that’s what he did in our game. Their scheme allows for a lot of free releases, and I really like their receiver corps. It’s a deep group.”

For much of the season, opponents have strayed from what they typically do philosophically, playing LSU with their third-and-long or third-and-medium plan even though it’s first-and-10.

It’s the Tigers depth of playmakers that compounds the problems, says another defensive coordinator who got LSU later in the year. “The Jefferson kid is talented. I don’t think he’s elite, but when he becomes the third ‘thing’ that you’re talking about. He becomes a really good third thing. That’s where Oklahoma got some really bad matchups. He’s an NFL wide receiver — he’s not an ‘Oh my God!’ guy, but when you spend your game-plan worrying about other people, that’s when he becomes so effective. And that’s what Moss and Marshall are too. They’re talented players, don’t get me wrong. They’re not elite difference-makers, but they’re such an afterthought in the game plan because of how much time the other pieces take, they can get going, too. That, to me, is LSU in a nutshell.”

An SEC defensive backs coach whose team faced the Tigers when he suspects the 6-3, 200-pound Marshall wasn’t all the way back to 100 percent from his high-ankle injury says another aspect that makes LSU’s offense so lethal is that Chase and Jefferson are interchangeable in what they can do. “They mix both them both in the slot, and they’re great at getting mismatches inside on linebackers. Both of them do a hell of a job blocking. They both also have really strong hands.

“The biggest thing that they do well is the run after the catch. Those two and (Alabama’s Jerry) Jeudy were the best receivers I saw. They’re not quite as fast as Jeudy, but they are a little stronger.”

Up front, LSU won the Joe Moore Award as the nation’s top offensive line. The group has come a long way, reducing its sacks allowed percentage on pass attempts by around 33 percent and improving the running game from four yards per carry to almost five a carry. “It’s a good line, not a great line,” said one of the defensive coordinators. “I think they’ve got a bunch of late-round picks there. They’re better in the middle than they are at the tackles. (Offensive guard Damien Lewis) is probably their best guy. He’s strong as shit and has handled some big-time games he’s faced. The center (Lloyd Cushenberry) is a good player. The tackles are improved, but I think they’re only slightly above average. No. 76 (right tackle Austin Deculus) still has a lot of trouble with speed, but Burrow is so good at getting rid of it, he compensates well for it.”

So what would these coaches do in retrospect if facing LSU’s offense, or what do they think Venables might try?

“You have to defend five guys in routes on every play,” says one of the defensive coordinators. “Not a zone exists that allows for that. Which means you better be able to get rush with four and be able to play man to man. Ohio State would have had the personnel on every level to have a shot to do that. I don’t know Clemson personnel.”

The other defensive coordinator sounded less optimistic.

“I thought we did things the right way,” he says. “We probably tried to tweak things a little too much. We were doubling Chase and bracketing Edwards-Helaire with our linebackers and playing that into spy on Burrow. But the game just goes a little too fast. There were a few times early we kinda stopped the play but it still turned into a plus-30 because Joe just did something.

“What would I do differently? Just not play ’em.”

 

A few things to love in there - I will focus on the second of the bolded excerpts - that Burrow is playing behind a good BUT NOT great line.  That passage and quote from a defensive coordinator is clearly getting at what I have been noting - that Burrow can perhaps raise the evaluation of an average offensive line...

[membengal]

Put this in the draft thread but will leave it here too...

That's yet another point SCREAMING about taking Burrow...just, wow. 

[AMPHAR]

If you want to entertain playoffs next year the current state of the o-line is the biggest offensive road block in doing so.

Mixon is a superstar talent and look how much that line derailed him this year.    Since the exit of Whitworth and Z, Dalton has had a difficult time behind that line and I think Dalton has played at a low level these past two years, but his knowledge of the offense and release probably saved that line.    Although Dalton's season was ended off a ball snapped over his head and before that Bodine and Ced were firmly planted in his lap. 

When talking about Burrow.   His accuracy and pre snap reads are the most impressive thing and that suggests he may be able to overcome a poor line.    

Get a road grader in the run game up front.   Allow Mixon work towards a 1,600 yard year and that's going to be a lot of protection for Burrow.    He'll get bigger windows to throw into off play action.    Then if you get positive returns on AJ and Ross this season then he'll get to throw against cheating coverage and it sounds like he knows where to go with the ball at the college level.

Tate is a big WR target.   Boyd makes tough contested catches.    Not really sure about TE.    Gio has always been a plus and Dalton hung him out for death many times.

 

 

[membengal]

The Rams let Wade Phillips go for some weird reason. Now THERE is a hire I would dearly love to add to Taylor's staff - and there's an obvious connection there too...

[membengal]

Here's another holy crap Burrow chart:

 

[AMPHAR]

Wade Phillips would be a STRONG add.   He's had monster defenses everywhere he's gone it seems. 

 

[COB]

Hopefully Wade Phillips will answer one of the Craigslist ads Mike has posted:   "Looking for defensive football coach who wants to work in family environment.  Drywall skills, including taping and finishing, a big plus."

[volcom69]

Wade Phillips and Bill Callahan is who I would love to add to this coaching staff. It won’t happen but just the vet presence of these two guys would would give me a better feeling then what they have now. 

[volcom69]

2 hours ago, AMPHAR said:

If you want to entertain playoffs next year the current state of the o-line is the biggest offensive road block in doing so.

Mixon is a superstar talent and look how much that line derailed him this year.    Since the exit of Whitworth and Z, Dalton has had a difficult time behind that line and I think Dalton has played at a low level these past two years, but his knowledge of the offense and release probably saved that line.    Although Dalton's season was ended off a ball snapped over his head and before that Bodine and Ced were firmly planted in his lap. 

When talking about Burrow.   His accuracy and pre snap reads are the most impressive thing and that suggests he may be able to overcome a poor line.    

Get a road grader in the run game up front.   Allow Mixon work towards a 1,600 yard year and that's going to be a lot of protection for Burrow.    He'll get bigger windows to throw into off play action.    Then if you get positive returns on AJ and Ross this season then he'll get to throw against cheating coverage and it sounds like he knows where to go with the ball at the college level.

Tate is a big WR target.   Boyd makes tough contested catches.    Not really sure about TE.    Gio has always been a plus and Dalton hung him out for death many times.

 

 

Burrows pre snaps are great, but when things start to happen and he needs to make a play is what I find awesome about him. He goes off script and makes plays like crazy.

Dalton was awesome with pre snap calls, but going off script was a disaster with him.

[COB]

Mike's craigslist ad for linebacking help (accidentally posted on the Dubuque, Iowa, Craigslist when Mike just typed in "TriState Area") -

"Family owned and operated business looking for help at linebacker.  You should be pretty big for to do this job.  Must know how to tackle and shed blocks.  Must enjoy working in a small, bottom line-oriented business.  Medical and dental included, pension possibility after 3 years.  Must be willing to sign non-disclosure agreement.  Hopefully you like lifting weights."

[COB]

3 minutes ago, volcom69 said:

Dalton was awesome with pre snap calls, but going off script was a disaster with him.

Yep.  Under duress he'd default to modified stationary panic mode.  Things got crazy then!

[membengal]

20 minutes ago, COB said:

Yep.  Under duress he'd default to modified stationary panic mode.  Things got crazy then!

For instance - in the above tweet of Burrow throwing into a tight window on the move for a TD against Alabama - who do you think Dalton throws to on that play? I think #81 - covered, in front of him by five yards, where the ball is incomplete, popped up in the air for a pick, or he gets his TE killed. 

[COB]

Seen in help wanted on Cincinnati Craigslist:

”Large and strong man needed for football team.  Maybe you are Anthony Munoz, that would be helpful.  Also please be able to discuss how a man isn’t truly dressed without sock garters.  Apply PBS, near river.”

[COB]

Lots of chatter in the interchat about what offers the  Bengals might get for our pick, ie Burrow on a cba price controlled deal for 5 years.

Most interesting one I saw was: would you take the Saints 1 through 5 rounders, this draft and next, for our pick?

[membengal]

I would not. Not in a million years. 

[Stripes]

It's one of those [hypothetical] offers that looks amazing on the surface, but let's focus on the meat:  two Saints first round picks. They'll pick around 21-24 this year, and I doubt they'll suck next year. Are two picks in the 20s worth as much as one #1 pick (or as much as Joe Burrow)? I don't think so. Obviously the additional 8 picks matter too, mostly the second rounders, but even still I balk at that.

Burrow is not Akili Smith.

[volcom69]

Getting a little worried they are going to screw this up in someway.

[AMPHAR]

1 hour ago, COB said:

Lots of chatter in the interchat about what offers the  Bengals might get for our pick, ie Burrow on a cba price controlled deal for 5 years.

Most interesting one I saw was: would you take the Saints 1 through 5 rounders, this draft and next, for our pick?

No, because there are projected bounty's that get them 4-8 top 80 picks in this and next years draft.   

The deal above gives you 10 picks but probably 6 of them are probably 60 and below and the top picks would be out of franchise player range.

I would take a number of deals with the Dolphins that involve their #5 and extras.   You'll be landing a top notch Qb prospect and tools to build around him.

[AMPHAR]

20 minutes ago, volcom69 said:

Getting a little worried they are going to screw this up in someway.

I think it's going the opposite direction.   Burrow is being built to be a savior.   In reality,  he faces a tougher rebuild than Carson Palmer and Andy Dalton.

It's certainly is possible Burrow can make a Lamar Jackson impact on an offense.    But somehow they have got to replenish the offensive shelves because we have seen they are dangerously thin IF you want to think about playoffs.  

That's just the offense.