Bengals @ Jags Game Thread

[ShulaSteakhouse]

 

[GapControl]

4 hours ago, ShulaSteakhouse said:

 

People on this board have said for years now that the Bengals can’t run the ball.  Yes... for about a 10 game stretch Jeremy Hill and the line played well enough to win in the running game.  I think it was in 2015.......hmm.

What happens is obvious and many people here have said it.  Ds adjust to the attack and no more running lanes. That’s it.

now those blockers were FAR above this group of losers playing Oline now for the Bengals. 

A. Smith was part of those attacks and he and Zeitler were really the only true go to option.  Whit was never a guy to run behind as a LT though he could have been a HOF or atleast multiple All-Pro as a LG. 

Never Happened.  I blame it all on Paul Alexander (his call to get Bodine!  His call to get Fisher and Ogbuehi!  His call to resign Boling! If he gets overruled, it’s only by Mike B. And maybe (doubtful though) Marvin.

So the Owner doesn’t get fired as we all know, could fire Marvin but how do we know Marvin hasn’t wanted to fire Alexander since day 1 ?  That’s something Lance McAllister should be asking.

[volcom69]

Since the bye week, the defense has gone downhill as well. 

This team is such a mess right now, they have nothing good for them.

There kicker gets hurt so they release a player safety Derron Smith who I think is actually pretty good, and has played!!! Why not release one of those o-lineman that never play??? I swear they are clueless!

[ArmyBengal]

Sat in front of the TV all day in one of my all-time laziest days in history.  It was pretty much everything I could hope for and more.
That being said, the TV never turned to the Bengals game.  My wife asked, but I simply said, "why?"...

Then to see highlights of AJ straight losing his shit on national television told me all I needed to know.
If there was any doubt to the control Marvin has with this team, that moment in time tells you everything.

Sure AJ let the guy get in his head, but that is FAR from anything EVER seen by not only AJ, but any player on this team. Like, ever....
Choke holds ??  Two takedowns ??  Punches thrown at a guy wearing a helmet ??  Insanity on the football field ?? 

I have to be honest.  I loved it and for all the wrong reasons.
I'm rooting for the complete meltdown !!!

[volcom69]

I still think this team is talented, but if the coaching staff is not going to put them in the right situations then there is not much we can do.

Mixon is so good, but they continue to fail in the ways they use him, same with Gio.

They have a top ten pick sitting on the bench, even if he sucks your telling me they can't use him somehow? It's not like this team is winning, put him out there and see what he can do, it dosnt hurt. Marvin will wait till they end of the season to put him in and he will be the best thing we have seen in sometime, just the way it is.

The way AJ lost it, you can tell there is frustrations everywhere, that should be enough to say it's time for a change, now I'm just waiting to see if it happens.

[ShulaSteakhouse]

On 11/6/2017 at 2:11 PM, volcom69 said:

I still think this team is talented, but if the coaching staff is not going to put them in the right situations then there is not much we can do.

Mixon is so good, but they continue to fail in the ways they use him, same with Gio.

They have a top ten pick sitting on the bench, even if he sucks your telling me they can't use him somehow? It's not like this team is winning, put him out there and see what he can do, it dosnt hurt. Marvin will wait till they end of the season to put him in and he will be the best thing we have seen in sometime, just the way it is.

The way AJ lost it, you can tell there is frustrations everywhere, that should be enough to say it's time for a change, now I'm just waiting to see if it happens.

They always have talent at the "skill" positions, it's what they draft (CB's, WR's, RB's, TE's) and I think it makes them look like they have more talent than they do - but again their unwillingness to draft and spend $ on "up the middle" positions will always be their downfall - i.e. letting Zeitler go, not drafting Safeties or LB's on day one, not drafting a top Center, never spending top picks on DT's either anymore (although not their biggest problem).

Let's not forget Alexander also designs the run-blocking schemes and always has for the most part - when is the last time this franchise led anything in rushing? Their running game has been miserable for years, despite all of the top picks used on RB's, OT's and the occasional 2nd round Guard.

They need to change their operating philosophy, but it's stuck in Mike Brown's old ways that forces Marv to find gems later in the draft as almost a core operating procedure - he does a good job of that and knows defensive talent - but he's a terrible head coach anymore and it shows.  You can't ignore real needs just because you deem a position "less important" or because it doesn't sell as many jerseys.

They simply neglect too many "unimportant" positions on the roster and refuse to pay anyone at those positions more than a certain amount, and end-up with mediocre players like Shawn Williams and Illoka instead of a Reggie Nelson, who should've been kept around for another 2-3 years as a leader who can cover and provide run support.  They couldn't have drafted a top Safety or Guard or OT instead of the stupid Ross pick? Or even the Mixon pick? (why have 3 RB's if you never run or can't run the ball!!??)

I hate that the gutless, clueless local media never calls them out on this stuff - they used to when Trumpy/Esiason and Collinsworth were on SportsTalk back in the early 90's,  now you just have guys who want to keep jobs like Mcalister, Cutler and Lapham kissing the butts of everyone and people aren't knowledgeable anymore. And Ludwig is just crazy.

 

 

 

 

[AMPHAR]

27 minutes ago, ShulaSteakhouse said:

They always have talent at the "skill" positions, it's what they draft (CB's, WR's, RB's, TE's) and I think it makes them look like they have more talent than they do - but again their unwillingness to draft and spend $ on "up the middle" positions will always be their downfall - i.e. letting Zeitler go, not drafting Safeties or LB's on day one, not drafting a top Center, never spending top picks on DT's either anymore (although not their biggest problem).

Let's not forget Alexander also designs the run-blocking schemes and always has for the most part - when is the last time this franchise led anything in rushing? Their running game has been miserable for years, despite all of the top picks used on RB's, OT's and the occasional 2nd round Guard.

They need to change their operating philosophy, but it's stuck in Mike Brown's old ways that forces Marv to find gems later in the draft as almost a core operating procedure - he does a good job of that and knows defensive talent - but he's a terrible head coach anymore and it shows.  You can't ignore real needs just because you deem a position "less important" or because it doesn't sell as many jerseys.

They simply neglect too many "unimportant" positions on the roster and refuse to pay anyone at those positions more than a certain amount, and end-up with mediocre players like Shawn Williams and Illoka instead of a Reggie Nelson, who should've been kept around for another 2-3 years as a leader who can cover and provide run support.  They couldn't have drafted a top Safety or Guard or OT instead of the stupid Ross pick? Or even the Mixon pick? (why have 3 RB's if you never run or can't run the ball!!??)

I hate that the gutless, clueless local media never calls them out on this stuff - they used to when Trumpy/Esiason and Collinsworth were on SportsTalk back in the early 90's,  now you just have guys who want to keep jobs like Mcalister, Cutler and Lapham kissing the butts of everyone and people aren't knowledgeable anymore. And Ludwig is just crazy.

 

 

 

 

Eh,   their downfall was they choked in during their prime window years and never fired a coach.    They also suffered injuries that derailed 2014 and 2015.

Sure the Bengals run a hard cap, not pushing money out into future years.   This does make the staff choose earlier.   But teams that push money out eventually choose later.   ALL staffs are forced to find "gems".   

The primary issue with the Bengals today is they lost a bunch of proven talent to Free Agent and the replacement drafts are not paying off.   The low tier Free Agents aren't either.

 

They are basically the late 80s early 90s Houston Oilers.     Or 90s Saints when they had all those great LBs and several QBs named Billy Jo.

 

Now the cut of rebuilding is going to feel deeper because everyone was hoping they could retool instead of rebuild.   A rebuild is necessary and probably going to be deeper than once thought. 

 

 

[Scottishbengal]

23 hours ago, AMPHAR said:

 A rebuild is necessary and probably going to be deeper than once thought. 

 

Deep enough to include some of the coaching staff I hope ....

[TJJackson]

If there is a new head coach brought in from the outside (with the possible exception of Hue, who'd I'd still consider an insider for purposes of this item) then it is likely the new HC will bring in an entirely new staff.

If an insider is chosen, the best of whom would probably be our DC, I think the defensive coaches will be retained, and the offensive coaches will be considered on a case-by-case basis. Naturally, I hope pray on my knees that the list of departures in this scenario starts with Alexander.

[ShulaSteakhouse]

On 11/8/2017 at 12:38 PM, AMPHAR said:

Eh,   their downfall was they choked in during their prime window years and never fired a coach.    They also suffered injuries that derailed 2014 and 2015.

Sure the Bengals run a hard cap, not pushing money out into future years.   This does make the staff choose earlier.   But teams that push money out eventually choose later.   ALL staffs are forced to find "gems".   

The primary issue with the Bengals today is they lost a bunch of proven talent to Free Agent and the replacement drafts are not paying off.   The low tier Free Agents aren't either.

 

They are basically the late 80s early 90s Houston Oilers.     Or 90s Saints when they had all those great LBs and several QBs named Billy Jo.

 

Now the cut of rebuilding is going to feel deeper because everyone was hoping they could retool instead of rebuild.   A rebuild is necessary and probably going to be deeper than once thought. 

 

 

I don't disagree, but don't think their approach to free agency (which is bad) is the biggest problem, it's the positions they spend money on in FA and the draft that is the problem.  

Their "de-valuing" of the C, S and LB positions is ridiculous, when those are positions that teams like the Steelers and Ravens have made huge runs with, when they get the right QB, for instance.

Each position directs their position group typically, and have huge responsibilities.  The Bengals' ignore all 3 of them every single year, depending on unsigned players, late round picks, players that are "high value" (Thurman) who drop, and vets for cheap on their last legs.  (Vincent Rey and Shawn Williams would struggle to start for just about any other team, Bodine woud be on a PS somewhere at-best - they are all perennial starters here).

Can't have multiple drop-offs in talent like that and expect to win playoff games.

 

 

 

 

 

[cincyhokie]

10 hours ago, ShulaSteakhouse said:

I don't disagree, but don't think their approach to free agency (which is bad) is the biggest problem, it's the positions they spend money on in FA and the draft that is the problem.  

Their "de-valuing" of the C, S and LB positions is ridiculous, when those are positions that teams like the Steelers and Ravens have made huge runs with, when they get the right QB, for instance.

Each position directs their position group typically, and have huge responsibilities.  The Bengals' ignore all 3 of them every single year, depending on unsigned players, late round picks, players that are "high value" (Thurman) who drop, and vets for cheap on their last legs.  (Vincent Rey and Shawn Williams would struggle to start for just about any other team, Bodine woud be on a PS somewhere at-best - they are all perennial starters here).

Can't have multiple drop-offs in talent like that and expect to win playoff games.

 

 

 

 

 

NAILED IT.

What kills the Bengals and the FO the most is they are inflexible.  It's not that they don't want to win, they just really want to win their way.  And it's been killing them since 1990.

[GapControl]

11 hours ago, cincyhokie said:

NAILED IT.

What kills the Bengals and the FO the most is they are inflexible.  It's not that they don't want to win, they just really want to win their way.  And it's been killing them since 1990.

That’s right.  Mike Brown has said just as much without really saying it.  He believes in his philosophy and he stays the course.  He played QB at Dartmouth and is the son of a founding father so he’s going to do what he thinks is right. Katie is the same. Well, she didn’t play at Dartmouth but she’s indoctrinated.

Edited November 12, 2017 by GapControl

[AMPHAR]

22 hours ago, cincyhokie said:

NAILED IT.

What kills the Bengals and the FO the most is they are inflexible.  It's not that they don't want to win, they just really want to win their way.  And it's been killing them since 1990.

Perfect