gregcook68 Posted December 2, 2015 Report Share Posted December 2, 2015 1 hour ago, ArmyBengal said: I'd bet a large amount that if Manziel were part of the Cowboys organization, he'd be starting the rest of the way with little thought. The Browns are f*cking stupid. Then again, what's new ?? Dallas is the worst example to use. The same owner who fired his HC after back to back SBs, and has publicly said that the Cowboys and winning mean more to him than his family! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted December 2, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 2, 2015 Good piece this morning on how QB really isn't the big problem in Cleveland this year. http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2015/12/quarterback_play_isnt_among_cl.html#incart_2box Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmyBengal Posted December 2, 2015 Report Share Posted December 2, 2015 11 hours ago, gregcook68 said: Dallas is the worst example to use. The same owner who fired his HC after back to back SBs, and has publicly said that the Cowboys and winning mean more to him than his family! So you are saying Manziel wouldn't be starting in Dallas right now were he a part of that team ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregcook68 Posted December 2, 2015 Report Share Posted December 2, 2015 5 minutes ago, ArmyBengal said: So you are saying Manziel wouldn't be starting in Dallas right now were he a part of that team ?? Of course not. He would be! What I am saying is, just because he would be starting in the Dallas, win at any cost organization, is not the standard to label other organizations as stupid NOT to follow suit. Maybe the situation the Browns have put him in, will help humble him and allow him to grow up for crying out loud! After watching him console Davis on the sidelines, and after the game, maybe he's finally embraced that situation and on that 'maturity' path. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmyBengal Posted December 2, 2015 Report Share Posted December 2, 2015 1 hour ago, gregcook68 said: Of course not. He would be! What I am saying is, just because he would be starting in the Dallas, win at any cost organization, is not the standard to label other organizations as stupid NOT to follow suit. Maybe the situation the Browns have put him in, will help humble him and allow him to grow up for crying out loud! After watching him console Davis on the sidelines, and after the game, maybe he's finally embraced that situation and on that 'maturity' path. Gotcha. I wasn't trying to say the Browns are stupid because they won't do what the Cowboys would do. I'm commenting more to the fact that the Browns used a first round pick on a guy and still to this day really have no idea what he's capable of for longer than a game at a time. Now that McCown is done for the season, what point does it serve to sit Manziel and start Austin Davis ?? To prove a point ?? Well great, you prove a point but owe your first rounder almost 7 million in guaranteed money over the next two seasons. Not knowing what you have in him in a season that is going to end poorly anyway is ridiculous. Throw him in there and make the decision at the end of the season. Maybe he plays well and they decide to keep him. Maybe he plays well and they gain more in a trade. Maybe he sucks and they take the hit in cutting him. Either way around, the Browns have been stupid with him since drafting him and they will probably continue down that road. When it comes to Manziel, he needs to shoulder responsibility as well. I still want to punch him in his stupid face. Bengals blast the Browns this Sunday... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalszoneBilly Posted December 2, 2015 Report Share Posted December 2, 2015 Per BleacherReport, the Bengals open as 7.5 point favorites on the road vs the Browns. The Bengals are now the best bet in the NFL this season at 9-1-1 ATS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottishbengal Posted December 2, 2015 Report Share Posted December 2, 2015 15 minutes ago, BengalszoneBilly said: the Bengals open as 7.5 point favorites on the road vs the Browns. favourite by ONLY 7.1/2 points ?? I'd have thought more like 14.1/2pts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregcook68 Posted December 2, 2015 Report Share Posted December 2, 2015 1 hour ago, ArmyBengal said: Gotcha. I wasn't trying to say the Browns are stupid because they won't do what the Cowboys would do ...... Thanks for the clarification, because it sounded like you did, otherwise why use 'them' as an example. I don't disagree with your logic, but trying to figure out what that organization is up to or trying to prove just makes my head hurt! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted December 2, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 2, 2015 Austin Davis will start against the Bengals. http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/12/02/johnny-manziel-still-in-doghouse-austin-davis-to-start/ Ad the circus continues... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volcom69 Posted December 2, 2015 Report Share Posted December 2, 2015 So Austin Davis is the Browns starter. Not sure much about, but please bengals don't make him look like Joe Montana, or even Kelly Holcomb that game where they scored like 49 points lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted December 2, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 2, 2015 11 minutes ago, volcom69 said: So Austin Davis is the Browns starter. Not sure much about, but please bengals don't make him look like Joe Montana, or even Kelly Holcomb that game where they scored like 49 points lol Yup, that's happened before, but I don't get that feeling right now. Davis seems like a pretty conventional challenge to me. Tall pocket passer type with limited mobility (30 sacks in 11 games (8 starts)), has 9 picks and 5 fumbles (3 lost) to go with 13 TDs, OK arm. Has a few wins under his belt as a starter in St. Looey but a losing record overall (3-5). If he had an oline and a run game it sounds like he could be an effective game manager, but that's not the case in Cleveland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted December 2, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 2, 2015 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walrus Posted December 2, 2015 Report Share Posted December 2, 2015 I think I get the decision to bench JFF. If you start Manziel this week, how long until you have to bench him again for some infraction? He's completely unreliable. Also, the team around him is low on talent and won't likely help boost his stock any higher than it already is if you are hoping to work a trade, as many have suggested. Manziel's film really wouldn't likely improve much at this point. They're better off trying to develop Davis, a guy who actually might have a future with the team. Also, Davis allows them to run a more conventional offense that is more likely to provide continuity with a future QB, if that's not Davis himself. Finally, what the Browns need more than anything, IMO, is some kind of stability and consistency. The constant churn is really killing them. Unfortunately, a new GM, head coach, etc is virtually a given after this season. So, alas, for the poor long-suffering Browns fans, no end in sight... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted December 2, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 2, 2015 I agree, walrus, the call can be justified. The counter-argument is that by starting Davis, you've basically announced that you're giving up on JFF, which will only depress any trade value he may have. And while Davis may have a future, it's almost certainly as a backup. The Future is the poor sap (Cardale Jones?) who gets taken first overall by the Browns next April. Also agree the churn is doing Cleveland no favors, but it's likely to continue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COB Posted December 2, 2015 Report Share Posted December 2, 2015 1 hour ago, HoosierCat said: Doesn't matter who they start, they can beat us with just about anyone behind center. We split with them in '12, '13, and '14. Hopefully we sweep them this year, in fact a sweep of the AFC North is obviously a possibility this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walrus Posted December 2, 2015 Report Share Posted December 2, 2015 30 minutes ago, HoosierCat said: I agree, walrus, the call can be justified. The counter-argument is that by starting Davis, you've basically announced that you're giving up on JFF, which will only depress any trade value he may have. And while Davis may have a future, it's almost certainly as a backup. The Future is the poor sap (Cardale Jones?) who gets taken first overall by the Browns next April. Also agree the churn is doing Cleveland no favors, but it's likely to continue. Maybe. IMO, that ship has sailed. Everyone knows JFF is more likely to submarine the Browns in 2016 than he is to save them. Any attempt to position him as having a future with the team will be seen as bluff it is. Time to cut bait. Someone out there (Dallas) will give up a 6th or 7th rounder for him. Either way, things aren't likely to turn out well for the Browns. It's a choice between a turd sandwich and a turd pizza. EDIT: ...and mama always said, if you're down to the choice between a turd sandwich and a turd pizza - it's time to get out of Cleveland! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmyBengal Posted December 2, 2015 Report Share Posted December 2, 2015 1 hour ago, gregcook68 said: Thanks for the clarification, because it sounded like you did, otherwise why use 'them' as an example. I don't disagree with your logic, but trying to figure out what that organization is up to or trying to prove just makes my head hurt! I used them as example because of their current QB situation, I bet they would have little to no concern with starting Johnny Dumbass. Cleveland giving up on him at this point is funny. Can anyone imagine a better time to take a chance on letting a guy like him start to see what you have ?? Wait, what was I thinking, I'm sure Austin Davis will dig them out of that 2-9 hole... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted December 2, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 2, 2015 Midweek injury update via Hobs: DNP Whit, Hall (presumably the usual Wednesday vet rest), Eifert (stinger), Lamur (ankle), CLH (ribs). Lamur was working on the rehab field. Hill practiced so that ankle he had taped up during the Rams game can't be too bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted December 2, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 2, 2015 Roster note: Cleveland signed OL Dan France, who got cut from the Bengals PS squad this week to make room for CB Asa Jackson. ETA Hall (back) Iloka was limited (groin) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingwilly Posted December 2, 2015 Report Share Posted December 2, 2015 2 hours ago, ArmyBengal said: I used them as example because of their current QB situation, I bet they would have little to no concern with starting Johnny Dumbass. Cleveland giving up on him at this point is funny. Can anyone imagine a better time to take a chance on letting a guy like him start to see what you have ?? Wait, what was I thinking, I'm sure Austin Davis will dig them out of that 2-9 hole... I think they know what they have in Johnny Cocktail. No reason to put him on the field. Let Davis go get some live action, thy can shop for a new QB (Kaepernick, Yates, RG3, whoever) next year. Keep in mind Davis started 8 games for the Rams last year, winning the first 3, so he's no incpabale of playing he position at an NFL level, whereas Johnny Sixpack hasn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmyBengal Posted December 2, 2015 Report Share Posted December 2, 2015 Davis then proceeded to lose the following 5. Can't leave that out either. They felt strongly enough about Manziel to make him a first round pick and while he's a rock head off the field, he's never been given a real shot to show what he can do on the field. If the Browns want to simply cut bait on a first rounder to go looking for some other trash that's shinier than what they already have, then have at it. I simply don't agree that's the best approach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COB Posted December 2, 2015 Report Share Posted December 2, 2015 2 hours ago, HoosierCat said: Roster note: Cleveland signed OL Dan France, who got cut from the Bengals PS squad this week to make room for CB Asa Jackson. If I'm running the Browns at this point, I just sign every Bengals practice squad player that becomes available, every Bengal that hits the waiver wire, pretty much anyone the Bengals thought worthy of attention - sign them. Because the Browns have no fucking idea what they are doing personnel-wise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volcom69 Posted December 2, 2015 Report Share Posted December 2, 2015 Browns asking France how to beat the bengals offense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingwilly Posted December 2, 2015 Report Share Posted December 2, 2015 1 hour ago, ArmyBengal said: Davis then proceeded to lose the following 5. Can't leave that out either. They felt strongly enough about Manziel to make him a first round pick and while he's a rock head off the field, he's never been given a real shot to show what he can do on the field. If the Browns want to simply cut bait on a first rounder to go looking for some other trash that's shinier than what they already have, then have at it. I simply don't agree that's the best approach. I make no claim about Davis, other than he's far more experienced NFL QB than Johnny. They've had Johnny for long enough to learn he's not an NFL caliber starter. If he was he'd have been able to beat out a McCown or a Hoyer. But he didn't. To say he hasn't had a shot is simply not true, two training camps, two preseaons, some starts, some relief efforts. He's shown what he is capable of. A guy does not need a year of starts to assess. Whether Johnny as worth an r1 pick is an entirely different matter. r1 picks bust all the time, especially QBs. When you have guy who is dishonest about his actions, directly lying to his bosses, this after going through a very public rehab, is an indicator of his integrity and professionalism. That they've stood by him (not cut him) through all of that (including an accusation of roughing up his girlfriend) is commendable but I'm not going to fault them for NOT handing him the keys to the offense right now. that would send the wrong message to the lockeroom about accountability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted December 2, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 2, 2015 Cleveland injury notes via Hobs: Haden, Hawkins and Taylor Gabriel all still DNP (concussion). Randy Starks (knee), Joel Bitonio (ankle) and LB Nate Orchard (groin) were limited. Starks and Bitonio were both scratches last weekend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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