Bengals @ Cardinals Pregame Chatter/Game Thread

[gregcook68]

The schtick died with this loss.  

Never mind all the should haves, could haves, this one is lousy, that one stinks stuff. What is this team left with going forward?

I think they win next week against the Rams.  9-2.

They play the Browns away and rarely sweep them.  9-3

Pittsburgh at home, they rarely sweep them, and I think Thugsburgh will be out for blood.  9-4. ( Realistically, even without Bell, they could run the table and go 12-4.  They play the struggling Seahawks, the Luckless Colts, Bengals, Broncos at home, Ravens without Forsett or Flacco, and the Browns).

After Pittsburgh, Bengals play at San Francisco. It should get flexed from primetime, and if it does they should win.  10-4.

BTW, how many primetime games does this team need to lose to show everyone it's not coincidence?

Next is at Denver, primetime, a loss. 10-5.

Lastly, home against a crippled Baltimore to finish 11-5, UNLESS the 49er game stays primetime, then they could finish 10-6.

Best case, both Bengals and Pittsburgh finish 11-5, then tie breaker comes into play and I have no clue how that plays out.

Worse case, Steelers finish 12-4, Bengals 11-5, or Pittsburgh 11-5, Bengals 10-6.

[HoosierCat]

56 minutes ago, GapControl said:

And to add, Zeitler is pretty good but he can't account for Bodine and Bolings weaknesses.  Whit losing weight has helped him and he's impressed this year.  But the scout report on him is clear.  He's a near all-pro level guard playing left tackle.  He's beat by speed rushers too often and he either swings back at the last moment to redirect them or whiffs, making the HB/FB pick them up to prevent catastrophe or Dalton to escape the pocket.  It's damn obvious.

Yup. And on top of that, Moobs has regressed in pass protection this season. I don't know what's up with him, you'd think that the prospect of being a FA in March would have him going all-out but he's struggled all year and was terrible last night.

All of that said, it's worth nothing that for all the lousy oline play, the lack of a consistent run game, all the dumb penalties, Dalton misfires, receiver drops and WTF playcalling we saw last night...the O still put up 31 points. They haven't put up 30+ and lost since week 11 of 2010 against Buffalo. In other words, the offense easily did enough to win this game. In my book this L is 100% on the defense.

[HoosierCat]

37 minutes ago, BengalszoneBilly said:

I think the game in Cleveland will be tougher than we think.

Isn't it always? FWIW a couple weeks back I had some free time and decided to break down the common/uncommon performances of some other QBs around the league to try to put Joe Goodberry's focus on that for Dalton into some kind of perspective.I looked at Flacco, Romo, Manning (both), Brady,Palmer, Brees, Rogers and Roethlisberger. Long story short, Dalton's great performance against "uncommon " opponents is nothing remarkable, it's just a bit above average for the group. Hie poor rating against "common" opponents, however, is well below the group average...until you subtract out one team, in which case it jumps about 10 points.

That team? Cleveland. For whatever reason they are Dalton's kryptonite. So yeah, I could see them losing that one.

[jonf45uk]

54 minutes ago, gregcook68 said:

The schtick died with this loss.  

Never mind all the should haves, could haves, this one is lousy, that one stinks stuff. What is this team left with going forward?

I think they win next week against the Rams.  9-2.

They play the Browns away and rarely sweep them.  9-3

Pittsburgh at home, they rarely sweep them, and I think Thugsburgh will be out for blood.  9-4. ( Realistically, even without Bell, they could run the table and go 12-4.  They play the struggling Seahawks, the Luckless Colts, Bengals, Broncos at home, Ravens without Forsett or Flacco, and the Browns).

After Pittsburgh, Bengals play at San Francisco. It should get flexed from primetime, and if it does they should win.  10-4.

BTW, how many primetime games does this team need to lose to show everyone it's not coincidence?

Next is at Denver, primetime, a loss. 10-5.

Lastly, home against a crippled Baltimore to finish 11-5, UNLESS the 49er game stays primetime, then they could finish 10-6.

Best case, both Bengals and Pittsburgh finish 11-5, then tie breaker comes into play and I have no clue how that plays out.

Worse case, Steelers finish 12-4, Bengals 11-5, or Pittsburgh 11-5, Bengals 10-6.

Worryingly I think this is quite likely. Don't know if it's the years of let downs, but I have a really bad feeling about this! Let's be honest,  if most of us had been offered 8-2 we'd have ripped your arms off for it!

2 weeks ago we were 8-0, superbowl contenders now we're suddenly gonna be lucky to get a wildcard spot?!!!! I certainly don't see them going 6-0 to finish and the 3 divisional games could be huge, and pittsburgh we all know will never just lay down and die. It's no surprise teams have prepared for us better as the years gone on and we seem to be destined to beat ourselves by ridiculous penalties, poor play calling and awful game management at times. It would be nice for us to have a game where offence, defence and special teams all turn up, not 1 of 3 as it seems to be at the moment. This is a very talented team, let's just hope they right the wrongs of the last couple weeks and go into the playoffs playing the best football of the year, cos we've all seen how we play under the spotlight and we're gonna need all the help we can get!!!

[HoosierCat]

Before we crown the Steelers, let's let the games play out, eh? This coming weekend they have to travel to Seattle, never an easy place to win and the Hags are still a pretty good team. After that they get the Colts, which could go either way depending on which Colts team shows up that week. Then they come to us and that's no gimme for either team. And after that they get Denver and their defense. Then finally they end the year with two away games against division opponents who would love nothing more than to crush their playoff hopes. That's no cakewalk.

[gregcook68]

26 minutes ago, HoosierCat said:

Before we crown the Steelers, let's let the games play out, eh? This coming weekend they have to travel to Seattle, never an easy place to win and the Hags are still a pretty good team. After that they get the Colts, which could go either way depending on which Colts team shows up that week. Then they come to us and that's no gimme for either team. And after that they get Denver and their defense. Then finally they end the year with two away games against division opponents who would love nothing more than to crush their playoff hopes. That's no cakewalk.

I agree with this analysis, and I am hoping the Bengals go 6-0 from here.

But when the franchise history keeps repeating itself, eventually it has to become a reality and cannot be ignored, like it doesn't matter.

The difference between the Steelers last 6 games and the Bengals last 6, everything else being equal, the Thugs play with that mental toughness, I thought, the Bengals finally achieved after the first half.

I'm hoping these 2 games were a wake-up call for that mental 'edge' to resurface these last 6 games, but franchise history tells me otherwise.

The hope is also looking at the fact that they lost 2 games by 7 points and, as horrible as the play and penalties were, at times, if some breaks had gone just a little differently, they could be 10-0.

[CardinalMan]

Tough game guys. You gave us a real scare.  I know you feel let down now, but I am sure you will be in the playoffs and maybe even the SB.  It is tough to beat us in our own stadium.  You had many penalties and we had inopportune penalties that came when you were in second or third and long and resulted in automatic first downs. I am hoping we will play again when we are both healthier.

[kingwilly]

Exciting game but the flatness they displayed coming out from halftime was embarrassing. This team may still beat teams it should but until thy get their mental game fixed, they won't win anything in the post season. It's a testament to the coaches that they are penalized 10x. Typical Marvin Lewis quality, or lack thereof.

 

Hill and Smith are retarded. Dre can't cover a pop warner WR. Dunlap disappeared for huge stretches, and Iloka blew his deep zone at the worst possible time. Hue called a great game but Dalton has to be smarter at the end, run the ball get the first and leave them nothing. But again, until the mental stuff is fixed, they are just another high potential group with low IQ.

 

 

[COB]

I hope I never watch another 3rd quarter like that one last night.  3 things about that defense.  First, Domata Peko got pushed out of the hole.  He's got a pass as sort of a Bengals elder statesman, but having Pat Sims out of that game hurt us.  Second, the other guy who has a pass as an elder statesman is Leon Hall.  When Palmer needed chunk pass plays on that last drive, he went right at Hall, and Hall got torched.  Third, watching the Cardinals' receiver block Dre Kirkpatrick on run plays was like watching the varsity take on the jv.  No fucking contest whatsoever.  Dre has to get stronger.  

 

On offense, very obvious the Cardinals watched the tape from the Steeler game.  They came right up the middle at our quarterback.  It was really kind of surprising we were in position to win that game, considering the track meet taking place between our tackles with Andy as the finish line.  We will likely see that the rest of the way until we prove we can stop it.  All in all, we won the 1st, 2nd, and 4th quarters, but man, did we ever lose the third. 

 

 

[glasgowbengal]

Some amount of bed wetting going on to round off this thread.  I'm surprised that some of you haven't proffered an 8-8 finish 

[gregcook68]

5 minutes ago, glasgowbengal said:

Some amount of bed wetting going on to round off this thread.  I'm surprised that some of you haven't proffered an 8-8 finish 

Until history is rewritten it is what it is, especially when it keeps happening over and over and over again since 1968. I can remember the first year Andy Reid took over the Chiefs, they went 8-0 the first half, and 3-5 in the second.

[HoosierCat]

1 hour ago, kingwilly said:

Exciting game but the flatness they displayed coming out from halftime was embarrassing. This team may still beat teams it should but until thy get their mental game fixed, they won't win anything in the post season. It's a testament to the coaches that they are penalized 10x. Typical Marvin Lewis quality, or lack thereof.

Hill and Smith are retarded. Dre can't cover a pop warner WR. Dunlap disappeared for huge stretches, and Iloka blew his deep zone at the worst possible time. Hue called a great game but Dalton has to be smarter at the end, run the ball get the first and leave them nothing. But again, until the mental stuff is fixed, they are just another high potential group with low IQ.

Ehhhh...I dunno. A lot of the penalties seemed ticky-tack at best and outright phantom calls at worst. I think they're OK mentally. What we saw last night was IMO a lot of the same stuff we've seen all year, just with a less fortunate ending. Defensively, they bend-but-don't-break strategy broke (I'd argue because of injuries in the secondary, particularly Jones being out), while offensively they continued to struggle with pass protection and running the ball (and COB is dead on about the weakness up the middle), leading to a lack of consistency and execution.

[Stripes]

5 hours ago, gregcook68 said:

Until history is rewritten it is what it is, especially when it keeps happening over and over and over again since 1968. I can remember the first year Andy Reid took over the Chiefs, they went 8-0 the first half, and 3-5 in the second.

What you're suggesting will happen is not some norm in Bengals history -- it'd be a colossal collapse unlike anything before it.

We lost two games by a combined 7 points and still have a 2 game lead in the division.  The Bengals themselves left the losing culture behind years ago.  Can you keep pace with them?

[gregcook68]

5 minutes ago, StripesInSuffolk said:

What you're suggesting will happen is not some norm in Bengals history -- it'd be a colossal collapse unlike anything before it.

We lost two games by a combined 7 points and still have a 2 game lead in the division.  The Bengals themselves left the losing culture behind years ago.  Can you keep pace with them?

Come on Stripes, yes, for me, I love the fact that they have the capability to win every week now.

But I'm approaching this from the same standpoint that most in here and talking heads say, that none of that matters until they win a SB.

Yes, I'd love to see that happen, but if it doesn't I'm still okay with it all and the sky's not falling.

However, until they can start winning seasonal big stage games, I cannot expect them to win big stage playoff games.  

 

[cincyhokie]

In 1981 the Bengals lost to the Oilers (who were terrible) 17-10 and lost at home to the 49ers 21-3. In 1988 they lost to the Oilers 41-6. Both seasons they went to the superbowl. So far, this year, they have lost 2 games by a combined 7 points. It's a long season. Perspective.

[gregcook68]

5 minutes ago, cincyhokie said:

In 1981 the Bengals lost to the Oilers (who were terrible) 17-10 and lost at home to the 49ers 21-3. In 1988 they lost to the Oilers 41-6. Both seasons they went to the superbowl. So far, this year, they have lost 2 games by a combined 7 points. It's a long season. Perspective.

Good point CH. 

But, then you've got 2 time SB Champion, best CB to ever play the game, who was so good, he got away with never being forced to hit or tackle, like a 'complete' CB is supposed to do, Mr Primetime himself, who said that some teams and players, the Bengals being one of them, just aren't built for pressure situations. Their good, but not great and will never prevail!

[GapControl]

13 hours ago, gregcook68 said:

Come on Stripes, yes, for me, I love the fact that they have the capability to win every week now.

But I'm approaching this from the same standpoint that most in here and talking heads say, that none of that matters until they win a SB.

Yes, I'd love to see that happen, but if it doesn't I'm still okay with it all and the sky's not falling.

However, until they can start winning seasonal big stage games, I cannot expect them to win big stage playoff games.  

 

Can't buy in to what you are selling Mr.Cook.  The Rams won a Super Bowl, the PATRIOTS were PATHETIC save a 1985 SB appearance, ('96 Bledsoe/Parcells island like fluke year) the Cowboys disappeared until Jimmy Johnson rolled out of the U into town- The Seahawks and The Saints have been called at best shitty college teams for decades at times.  The Vikings and Bills made amazing conference runs and/or Super Bowl runs which led to guys going into the Hall of Fame. The laughing stock Buccaneers won a Super Bowl.

The 1968 Newly crowned bengals franchise has made more Super Bowl appearances than 12 other franchises.

The Gold Standard in NFL Super Bowl history is limited to 10 franchises.  These 10 have had atleast 5 Super Bowl appearances. 

All but Pittsburgh, Green Bay, and Washington are major cities but the Redskins have big political interest to back them.

As of now in order of appearances:

Pitt, Cowboys, Pats, Denver, 49ers, Packers, NY Giants, Raiders, Skins, Dolphins

Now- think about how close the Bengals have been to making a couple more SB appearances since '68.

if you get in, it's a crap shoot.

Appear in 1 super bowl and win it and the 1968 expansion franchise bengals immediately tie the Rams, Seahawks, Chiefs, and Bears. They automatically jump the Bills, Vikings, and Eagles in WINS as well.

Now, Mr. Cook, 

Who Dey Think Gonna Beat Them Bengals?

[gregcook68]

20 minutes ago, GapControl said:

Can't buy in to what you are selling Mr.Cook.  The Rams won a Super Bowl, the PATRIOTS were PATHETIC save a 1985 SB appearance, ('96 Bledsoe/Parcells island like fluke year) the Cowboys disappeared until Jimmy Johnson rolled out of the U into town- The Seahawks and The Saints have been called at best shitty college teams for decades at times.  The Vikings and Bills made amazing conference runs and/or Super Bowl runs which led to guys going into the Hall of Fame. The laughing stock Buccaneers won a Super Bowl.

The 1968 Newly crowned bengals franchise has made more Super Bowl appearances than 12 other franchises.

The Gold Standard in NFL Super Bowl history is limited to 10 franchises.  These 10 have had atleast 5 Super Bowl appearances. 

All but Pittsburgh, Green Bay, and Washington are major cities but the Redskins have big political interest to back them.

As of now in order of appearances:

Pitt, Cowboys, Pats, Denver, 49ers, Packers, NY Giants, Raiders, Skins, Dolphins

Now- think about how close the Bengals have been to making a couple more SB appearances since '68.

if you get in, it's a crap shoot.

Appear in 1 super bowl and win it and the 1968 expansion franchise bengals immediately tie the Rams, Seahawks, Chiefs, and Bears. They automatically jump the Bills, Vikings, and Eagles in WINS as well.

Now, Mr. Cook, 

Who Dey Think Gonna Beat Them Bengals?

They have won 5 playoff games in 46 years, ALL home games. They have never won an away playoff game.

Jacksonville has also won 5 playoff games in 19 years, 2 at home, 3 away.

Since 2011, the Bengals are 1-15 in away big stage games and I am not certain that includes playoff games. If not, then they are 1-18.

My definition of 'big stage games' are games the are played nationally, where it is a the ONLY game being played at the time. (Thursday, Sunday, and Monday night games, and all playoff games).

I would love to see them run the table, winning the primetime game in Denver and San Francisco, if it doesn't get flexed, but I can't believe it will stay in that primetime slot.

Yes, I root every week that things change, but until or unless that happens, it is what it is.

As much as it pains me to say this, maybe loud mouth Deion Sanders is right after all. The Bengals just aren't built for winning spotlight games, because they aren't great players on great teams like he and Michael Irvin were.

BTW, Deion was a great cover back, and kick returner, but was scared to hit and tackle and got away with it his whole career.

[GapControl]

14 hours ago, gregcook68 said:

Come on Stripes, yes, for me, I love the fact that they have the capability to win every week now.

But I'm approaching this from the same standpoint that most in here and talking heads say, that none of that matters until they win a SB.

Yes, I'd love to see that happen, but if it doesn't I'm still okay with it all and the sky's not falling.

However, until they can start winning seasonal big stage games, I cannot expect them to win big stage playoff games.  

Mr. Cook none of those playoff numbers you quoted change anything about what I wrote about SuperBowl appearances and wins.  If you want playoff wins but no SuperBowl action, that's a totally different measure of success. Let's ask Jim Kelly or Dan Marino which they'd rather have.  Deion's got both already and he is one of the few.  

[GapControl]

Deion also played for 4 different franchises, he became a highly sought mercenary.

[Scottishbengal]

On 22/11/2015, 19:03:30, BengalszoneBilly said:

Looks like whoever gets 50 will be lucky.

I ended up with the highest score of the week !! HTF did that happen???? 

[gregcook68]

11 hours ago, GapControl said:

KellyMr. Cook none of those playoff numbers you quoted change anything about what I wrote about SuperBowl appearances and wins.  If you want playoff wins but no SuperBowl action, that's a totally different measure of success. Let's ask Jim Kelly or Dan Marino which they'd rather have.  Deion's got both already and he is one of the few.  

The only club the Bengals qualify for is Teams That Have Never Won a Superbowl and Have Lost 2 or More.   Tied for second in the Elite Failing Four.

1. Vikings

2. Bills

3. Bengals

4. Eagles

Unfortunately, this club doesn't change franchise history, the fact that have won 5 measley playoff games in 46 years. Will this year be different? Time will tell.

Kelly and Marino played with one team. If Deion had stayed with Atlanta, how many rings you think he'd have?

How many will remember names like Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, Doug Williams, Jeff Hostetler, Jim McMahon, and Mark Rypien?

Six names off the top that I doubt Kelly and Marino would not trade their identities and career statistics, for their identities and career statistics, including their 6 SB QB winning rings.

[GapControl]

You've got the Bengals in the right club.  It also means exactly the same as I replied before.  Your argument is that you only care about winning a chanpionship for Paul Browns 68 expansion team.  I understand and I am suggesting that to win a Super Bowl you must get there first.  By getting there, it shows what type of ownership you have.  The Bengals are better than 10 other franchises including your "teams that have lost 2 Superbowls"

[GapControl]

Not only that, the bengals are on par with the Eagles and ABOVE the Browns (SB era), Texans, Jags, Chargers, Panthers, Lions, Titans, Falcons, and Cardinals.

All in the perspective of winning SB championships.

[GapControl]

To finish the counter argument, you have said that since the 68 Paul Brown franchise has never won a super bowl it predicts they never will.  It's a valid argument though pessimistic.  It's valid though logically I can't agree and here is why-

Historically Terrible Franchises by the definition of never winning a Super Bowl UNTIL:

New Orleans Saints - 2009 champ

Tampa Bay Bucs - 2002 champ

Chicago Bears - 1985 champ 

Seattle Seahawks - 2013 champ

Rams (two cities) - 1999 champ

NY Giants - 1986 champ

New England Pats - 2001