Bengals 2014

[Scottishbengal]

The Bengals have been fairly passive in Free Agency, letting some quality guys go whilst just picking up depth on the roster. Re-signing some of their own players appeared to be their prioriy whilst the other AFCN teams have been a bit more pro-active.

At this moment in time (pre-draft) what are your expectations of the team and what would you consider as a minimum for a successful season for the Bengals in 2014 ??

[Scottishbengal]

The AFCN will be tougher this season than last. Baltimore and Cleveland will be improved teams for sure.

The Bengals have enough talent to, at the very least, sneak a wildcard spot so I'd fully expect them to make the post-season. However I think retaining the AFCN crown will be an achievement considering the divisional opponents and the schedule they have and that is my measure of what would be a successful 2014 at this point in time.

Once we make the Play-Offs it's all conjecture as to where we play, who we play, and if we can ever be competitive in a post season game :frustrated:/>

[HoosierCat]

Make it back to the postseason, then worry about those games.

[Scottishbengal]

Make it back to the postseason, then worry about those games.

Oh definitely ... but making the postseason is the minimum I'd expect this season, winning the division would be an accomplishment considering our rivals, the schedule, and our movements thus far with the roster

[TJJackson]

My vote was for "first playoff win in decades" but I have a bad feeling that this season will see a regression for the Bengals

I think Dalton will wilt under the pressure of his contract year, and I worry about I think age and injuries will kill us in the secondary

I love Geno but I dont see him coming back like he was before

I dont see us making the playoffs

The ripple effect will be that Green will seek greener pastures at the first opportunity

Hopefully I am completely wrong on all accounts

[Scottishbengal]

I dont see us making the playoffs

So surely making the play-offs via a wildcard would be a success in your eyes then TJ ????

[TJJackson]

nah, success is still winning in the playoffs

[Walrus]

Success is making the playoffs and proving that the team that has let good players walk, has done so without taking a step back. Success is seeing Dalton take that next step with a strong playoff performance OR the team being prepared to move on without him in '15. Success is getting Burfict's deal done and watching him continue to elevate to greatness. Success is seeing another good draft yield another 2-3 solid to great starters.

Honestly, if they miss on ANY of those things I don't think I'll regard the 2014 season a success.

[Walrus]

PS - note that I don't stipulate a playoff win. As much as I'm inclined to agree with TJ on the importance of a playoff victory, I really would not feel that great about a single postseason victory where Dalton still struggled. Wouldn't that just raise the level of ambivalence about the guy?

On the other hand, another playoff loss, disappointing as it would certainly be, would be much easier to take if we got to see Dalton really take charge of the team and perform at a higher level. I'm looking for reasons to love Andy, not boot him out. But I also just want to know one way or another if he's a guy who can get it done here.

[ArmyBengal]

I remember when success for this team was finishing 8-8 on the year.

Things sure have changed for the better !!!

Look, if this team has another 10-11 win season (which I think is possible) and goes back to the playoffs, that's success.

If Dalton can keep his numbers where they are but cut back on the INT's, that's success.

If they win even a single playoff game, but don't make it to the Super Bowl, that's success.

I get what everyone wants here, i'm in the same boat. A Super Bowl victory would be one of the greatest things from a sporting perspective.

However, lets not pretend that anything short of that is failure.

Some successes aren't capable of immediate measurement either.

If they get 2-3 solid starters in the draft, we won't know it for at least another season.

Why? Because I can't really think of a position on the team that a rookie will HAVE to start right away.

[Walrus]

Some successes aren't capable of immediate measurement either.

If they get 2-3 solid starters in the draft, we won't know it for at least another season.

Why? Because I can't really think of a position on the team that a rookie will HAVE to start right away.

Totally agree. The draft is an important measure of long-range success -- but that much more important for a team that intentionally avoids bringing in players via free agency.

The fact that we seem to have drafted pretty well in recent years makes me very optimistic about the team's overall trajectory. I think this particular draft is one to watch because we have just lost two coordinators who presumably had some part in shaping those recent drafts. What effect will Jackson and Guenther have? We will see...

[HoosierCat]

PS - note that I don't stipulate a playoff win. As much as I'm inclined to agree with TJ on the importance of a playoff victory, I really would not feel that great about a single postseason victory where Dalton still struggled. Wouldn't that just raise the level of ambivalence about the guy?

On the other hand, another playoff loss, disappointing as it would certainly be, would be much easier to take if we got to see Dalton really take charge of the team and perform at a higher level. I'm looking for reasons to love Andy, not boot him out. But I also just want to know one way or another if he's a guy who can get it done here.

I'm going to bet that there is really no level of success that will satisfy Dalton's critics. Even if he does well in the playoffs and the Bengals win the Super Bowl, they will just point to Flacco and argue we would be making the same mistake as the Ravens did.

[ArmyBengal]

Some successes aren't capable of immediate measurement either.

If they get 2-3 solid starters in the draft, we won't know it for at least another season.

Why? Because I can't really think of a position on the team that a rookie will HAVE to start right away.

Totally agree. The draft is an important measure of long-range success -- but that much more important for a team that intentionally avoids bringing in players via free agency.

The fact that we seem to have drafted pretty well in recent years makes me very optimistic about the team's overall trajectory. I think this particular draft is one to watch because we have just lost two coordinators who presumably had some part in shaping those recent drafts. What effect will Jackson and Guenther have? We will see...

Absolutely.

I think this is also why i'm looking at the players coming due for free agency in the next season or two to think about a position they might draft.

The Bengals have always been that team that doesn't put much stock in free agency, at least not right away.

If they keep doing better than average in the draft, this doesn't really present an issue.

Yeah, i'm looking to see what impact Hue and Guenther will have, but seeing as how they were inside hires, i'm thinking more of the same.

I'm good with that.

[Walrus]

PS - note that I don't stipulate a playoff win. As much as I'm inclined to agree with TJ on the importance of a playoff victory, I really would not feel that great about a single postseason victory where Dalton still struggled. Wouldn't that just raise the level of ambivalence about the guy?

On the other hand, another playoff loss, disappointing as it would certainly be, would be much easier to take if we got to see Dalton really take charge of the team and perform at a higher level. I'm looking for reasons to love Andy, not boot him out. But I also just want to know one way or another if he's a guy who can get it done here.

I'm going to bet that there is really no level of success that will satisfy Dalton's critics. Even if he does well in the playoffs and the Bengals win the Super Bowl, they will just point to Flacco and argue we would be making the same mistake as the Ravens did.

Well, haters gonna hate.

I think there is room for honest disagreement on Dalton at this point. However, a significant number of Dalton's current detractors would find a Super Bowl win to be very compelling. That would leave the true haters out in the cold. And in the end there's nothing a true hater loves more than being cold and miserable. ... Another possible measure of success for the team! :)/>

[ArmyBengal]

Well, i'm on record for having Dalton as the starter of this team through this season.

I've also said that should he fail in 2014, I would have little issue seeing them move in another direction.

Dalton has done more in his three years than almost anyone thought he would.

I know he's 0-3 in the playoffs, but did anyone really think he would have gotten them to the playoffs in his first three seasons when he was drafted ??

He has things to improve for sure, i'm not saying he's Peyton Manning.

However, he's not Akili Smith either.

[ArmyBengal]

Here's the draft day thread for anyone wanting to go back and take a look:
/>http://forums.bengalszone.com/topic/22776-2nd-round-andy-dalton-qb-tcu/page__hl__%2Bbengals+%2B2nd+%2Bpick+%2B2011+%2Bnfl+%2Bdraft

[Walrus]

Some successes aren't capable of immediate measurement either.

If they get 2-3 solid starters in the draft, we won't know it for at least another season.

Why? Because I can't really think of a position on the team that a rookie will HAVE to start right away.

Totally agree. The draft is an important measure of long-range success -- but that much more important for a team that intentionally avoids bringing in players via free agency.

The fact that we seem to have drafted pretty well in recent years makes me very optimistic about the team's overall trajectory. I think this particular draft is one to watch because we have just lost two coordinators who presumably had some part in shaping those recent drafts. What effect will Jackson and Guenther have? We will see...

Absolutely.

I think this is also why i'm looking at the players coming due for free agency in the next season or two to think about a position they might draft.

The Bengals have always been that team that doesn't put much stock in free agency, at least not right away.

If they keep doing better than average in the draft, this doesn't really present an issue.

Yeah, i'm looking to see what impact Hue and Guenther will have, but seeing as how they were inside hires, i'm thinking more of the same.

I'm good with that.

This made me think of one other measure of success for the 2014 season: the emergence of the '12 and '13 draft picks as quality starters. I'm looking at you, Margus Hunt. I'm looking at you, Dre Kirkpatrick. I'm looking at you, Tyler Eifert. I'm looking at you, Brandon Thompson, Devon Still, Marvin Jones and Mohammed Sanu. If 4-5 of these guys (or ones I failed to mention like Burkhead or Hawkinson) take the next step this year, that will be an important measure of success for the team.

EDIT: Believe it or not, pretty good read out of the Pittsburgh Tribune that talks about this... http://triblive.com/sports/steelers/5925870-74/draft-steelers-nfl#axzz2zWC0hWmX

[TJJackson]

I can't really think of a position on the team that a rookie will HAVE to start right away.

Either left guard or left tackle, whichever spot is not manned by Big Whit

[ArmyBengal]

I can't really think of a position on the team that a rookie will HAVE to start right away.

Either left guard or left tackle, whichever spot is not manned by Big Whit

There's one aspect, but I think it's LG. The largest reason for not bringing back AC was that Whit was said to want to be at LT and not inside.

Pollack seems to have the inside track at LG if they go with Robinson at the Center position.

I've made the argument that I would almost prefer Pollack at Center and see them draft another OG next to Whit.

Outside of that, I really don't see a rookie starting right away minus an injury occuring.

[COB]

Here's the draft day thread for anyone wanting to go back and take a look:
/>http://forums.bengalszone.com/topic/22776-2nd-round-andy-dalton-qb-tcu/page__hl__%2Bbengals+%2B2nd+%2Bpick+%2B2011+%2Bnfl+%2Bdraft

That was fun to read. It reminded me how much the whole selection of Dalton was driven by Carson bitching his way out of town, and how much Andy was hand-picked by Gruden to run his version of the west coast offense. I hope Hue doesn't overhaul the offense too much, he needs to recognize the qb running it and the offense itself were tailored to each other.

[HoosierCat]

This made me think of one other measure of success for the 2014 season: the emergence of the '12 and '13 draft picks as quality starters. I'm looking at you, Margus Hunt. I'm looking at you, Dre Kirkpatrick. I'm looking at you, Tyler Eifert. I'm looking at you, Brandon Thompson, Devon Still, Marvin Jones and Mohammed Sanu. If 4-5 of these guys (or ones I failed to mention like Burkhead or Hawkinson) take the next step this year, that will be an important measure of success for the team.

Yup. I might go as far as to say this is the No. 1 measure for success in 2014. All teams need those second- and third-year guys to perform, but the Bengals, because of their avoidance of free agency, need it more that some others.

If the Bengals continue their playoff ways in 2014, it will likely be because some or all of these players come on, not because Dalton suddenly becomes Peyton Manning or the first-round pick is an all-pro.

[ArmyBengal]

Here's the draft day thread for anyone wanting to go back and take a look:
/>http://forums.bengalszone.com/topic/22776-2nd-round-andy-dalton-qb-tcu/page__hl__%2Bbengals+%2B2nd+%2Bpick+%2B2011+%2Bnfl+%2Bdraft

That was fun to read. It reminded me how much the whole selection of Dalton was driven by Carson bitching his way out of town, and how much Andy was hand-picked by Gruden to run his version of the west coast offense. I hope Hue doesn't overhaul the offense too much, he needs to recognize the qb running it and the offense itself were tailored to each other.

Yeah, that part of the thread caught my eye as well. Gruden was asked hours before the draft which QB he was targeting and he said, "Dalton".

He was certainly picked to run this offense, but I can't say as having him throw the ball 50+ plays positively into that scenario either.

I think that's why most people think Hue's dedication to the running game will help Dalton. I don't disagree with that.

Something else that struck me as I went back through to look at things, Dalton always showed up big in his biggest games at TCU.

He didn't wilt under the pressure and won some big games. Here's to hoping we see Dalton and others progress in 2014.

[HoosierCat]

Just some late night food for thought on QBs and success. The measure a lot of people want to use is postseason success, and of course the ultimate in postseason success is the Super Bowl. By that measure, the league has few elite QBs. And they are, by and large, old.

Peyton Manning 38

Tom Brady 37 in August

Drew Brees 35

Eli Manning 33

Ben Roethlisberger 32

Aaron Rogers 31 in December

Joe Flacco 29

Russell Wilson 26 in November

That's all the current starting QBs with a ring. Those eight guys have won 11 of the last 12 Super Bowls and lost something like 5 of the last 7. One takeaway is that recent drafts haven't produced much in the way of elite QBs, Dalton included. After Wilson, you have to go back to 2008 for Flacco, 2005 for Rogers and 2004 for Eli and Ben.

That leads to a second takeaway: we're on the edge of a cliff. This could easily be Peyton's last year, and Brady can't be far behind. Brees has time nipping at his heels, and while Ben is younger he has taken a beating over the years and has problems staying healthy.

I don't know what this might imply for Andy, but it does look like we're in for an interesting time over the next three or so years. The same old guys are in competition at the top for the most part, while a bigger younger pool is struggling to break out.

[ArmyBengal]

I know most people don't share my enthusiasm in regards to the 2014 season, but I am psyched already.

The Bengals being 0-3 in their playoff appearances under Dalton does not make this a 7-9 team in 2014.

[membengal]

Need a playoff win for success.

For the record, I think they miss the playoffs entirely.