Sick this morning

[skyline]

In Michigan we have the Detroit zoo. People routinely drive to the Toledo zoo. That's what I hear is the best one

USA Travel Guide's most recent Power Rankings have the Columbus Zoo ranked #1, Cincinnati Zoo #7... and the Toledo Zoo doesn't make the list.

If the Columbus zoo were a football team, they'd be the Packers... the Cincinnati zoo would be the 49ers, and the Toledo Zoo would be the Little Sisters of the Poor.

That's right people! We're having a zoo flame war!

Aaaaaaaaaaand, on that note, perhaps it's time to close this thread and start a zoo one in its place? I have no problem with that

[COB]

In Michigan we have the Detroit zoo. People routinely drive to the Toledo zoo. That's what I hear is the best one

USA Travel Guide's most recent Power Rankings have the Columbus Zoo ranked #1, Cincinnati Zoo #7... and the Toledo Zoo doesn't make the list.

If the Columbus zoo were a football team, they'd be the Packers... the Cincinnati zoo would be the 49ers, and the Toledo Zoo would be the Little Sisters of the Poor.

That's right people! We're having a zoo flame war!

Yes! Number one zoo in the United States. The Packers probably think of themselves as the Columbus Zoo of the NFL. Cincinnati at number 7? That's pretty strong when you think of how many zoos there are in the U.S. Cinci zoo has my respect.

[membengal]

Bengals have at least legit hopes for the playoffs and play their last two at home. In any other city, those are hard sellouts and it isn't even a question.

In Cincy, there will be 20,000 - 30,000 empty seats between the last two games.

Really, worst fans in the NFL at this point, and its not even close.

[TJJackson]

In Cincy, there will be 20,000 - 30,000 empty seats between the last two games.

Really, worst fans in the NFL at this point, and its not even close.

I disagree

You (like Hair) equate asses in seats as fandom. Ie if you are not sitting in a seat at St Paul's Cathedral at home gametime, you are not a fan

Nothing could be further from the truth

[membengal]

I dont understand arguments based on your own particular fandom from your chair. Hell, even that measure is poisoned among this fanbase based on the toxic posts on message boards and calls to wlw/1530.

Bottom line is butts in seats is a hugely relevant measure, and the town has made it clear they are s**tty fans.

[TJJackson]

You're entitled to your opinion, however wrong it may be

[cincyhokie]

I dont understand arguments based on your own particular fandom from your chair. Hell, even that measure is poisoned among this fanbase based on the toxic posts on message boards and calls to wlw/1530.

Bottom line is butts in seats is a hugely relevant measure, and the town has made it clear they are s**tty fans.

I can see where you are coming from but think of it in this way. Fans who at least "care" to call shows, complain, not come to games do so because they actually are invested emotionally in the team. Fans who are apathetic are s**tty. I liken this to the fans in San Diego who for the most part just don't give a s**t and I don't blame them.

We give a s**t, it's not like Bengal fans have simply "tuned out". Record high TV ratings back this. Now, you might think that fans are "s**tty fans" for not going to games and that's fine but it's an opinion and far from a fact. s**tty at attendance but not s**tty fans.

[membengal]

I fail to understand an argument, again, where that many empty seats in the midst of a playoff attempted run is not relevant to the s**ttiness of a fanbase. Everything else is just excuses.

[cincyhokie]

I fail to understand an argumemt, again, where that many empty seats in the midst of a playoff attempted run is not relevant to the s**ttiness of a fanbase. Everything else is just excuses.

I guess the loophole with that perspective is that if the Bengals were to sellout every game next season, they would cease to be "s**tty" based on using the attendance example. I would see "s**ttyness" as a fan base to be more pervasive regardless of flucutations in statistics.

[Sea Ray]

I dont understand arguments based on your own particular fandom from your chair. Hell, even that measure is poisoned among this fanbase based on the toxic posts on message boards and calls to wlw/1530.

Bottom line is butts in seats is a hugely relevant measure, and the town has made it clear they are s**tty fans.

OK fine. Two yrs ago the Bengals soldout every game and had a waiting list. Did the Bengals have Sh***y fans then?

I don't like broadbrush terms like that describing the whole fanbase because attendance changes from yr to yr but the fans themselves don't.

[skyline]

I dont understand arguments based on your own particular fandom from your chair. Hell, even that measure is poisoned among this fanbase based on the toxic posts on message boards and calls to wlw/1530.

Bottom line is butts in seats is a hugely relevant measure, and the town has made it clear they are s**tty fans.

OK fine. Two yrs ago the Bengals soldout every game and had a waiting list. Did the Bengals have Sh***y fans then?

I don't like broadbrush terms like that describing the whole fanbase because attendance changes from yr to yr but the fans themselves don't.

Yep. This sort of thing goes in cycles. A lot of teams are having attendance problems right now. This year, we have them worse than most. Next year, it'll be someone else. So on and so forth.

[ArmyBengal]

Ever bother to take a look around from an economical standpoint and see how many people don't have jobs ?? Hell, even the ones that do have jobs are taking jobs they are overqualified for just to have one. Unemployment is a real problem in this concern as well and the last time I checked, it's Christmas time where people seem to be putting a lot of their funds into trying to provide a nice Christmas for their families and loved ones.

Now look at the price of a single ticket and couple that with parking, the price of food and drinks and then times that by at least two since not many people go to the game by themselves and it's really not that hard to understand. I would love nothing more than to have season tickets or even tickets to one of the game packs, but in reality, I simply can't afford it. The game I did go to this season (Buffalo) were tickets given to me by my brother in law.

Guess i'll just stay sh*tty huh ??

Poor people suck...

[fattyjay]

Went on stubhub yesterday just to see what tux would be for the cardinal game. Started at $40 with seats all around the stadium not just nosebleeds. I dont think fans can complain about that. Try seeing what the next bronco home game starts at...$125. I know this may be apples to oranges but still. I think the lack of butts in seats at PBS has more to with apathy than the economy.

[ArmyBengal]

I can certainly get that line of thought, but at this time of the year and with the way things are today, I just don't buy it as much.

Even at $40.00 a ticket, that's $80.00 for two since my wife would go, parking, food, etc. That's a 100 day minimum.

While I could certainly make THAT happen, it's still a choice of how to spend my money and with gifts for two little ones and other things to consider around the holidays, I choose to spend my money elsewhere. In talking to many people I work with here in Cincinnati, as well as people you hear talking about the Bengals in general, this isn't a small percentage of people that would make the same decision.

I hardly consider that being apathetic.

[HoosierCat]

One thing to keep in mind is both for the league as a whole and the Bengals, attendance has been declining for years. Nor are the Bengals the only team to field a winner but not sell out. Tampa went 10-6 last year but had zero home sellouts. After last season, teams like the Bucs and Chargers got aggressive with discounts to get people back into the stands. IIRC, the Bengals' concession to affordability was a 1 percent decrease in ticket prices.

[derekshank]

Arizona game is officially blacked out on Saturday.

Odd. I don't think the zoo is even open on Christmas Eve.

[jjakq27]

Had they beaten the Steelers and/or Ravens a few weeks back you would have seen greater interest and attendance. There are too many people unwilling to commit at this point because they can always point to these loses and lack of marquee home games as reasons to stay away.

[fattyjay]

I can certainly get that line of thought, but at this time of the year and with the way things are today, I just don't buy it as much.

Even at $40.00 a ticket, that's $80.00 for two since my wife would go, parking, food, etc. That's a 100 day minimum.

While I could certainly make THAT happen, it's still a choice of how to spend my money and with gifts for two

little ones and other things to consider around the holidays, I choose to spend my money elsewhere. In talking to

many people I work with here in Cincinnati, as well as people you hear talking about the Bengals in general, this

isn't a small percentage of people that would make the same decision.

I hardly consider that being apathetic.

Not aiming at you personally army, jut saying there should be 60k people or so in the area that can swing the cost of tickets for a game like this. I get middle o the year non-sellouts but this late in the year w/ playoffs on the line...

[derekshank]

I'm not terribly interested in this conversation, but just to give my two cents... I don't think any amount of on-the-field success was going to compensate for the perceived train-wreck of an offseason.

Lots of people bought season-tickets in 2010 hoping to see the team take the next step from '09. Bengals hype was at record levels. Many expected a Super Bowl run... but the team collapsed.

Coming into 2011, experts wrongly looked at Chad, T.O. and Palmer as the Bengals three best players. Only managing 4 wins with them... what could be expected without them? It looked like a disaster. The first year in a complete overhaul.

Going from Super-Bowl aspirations to expecting a potential 0 win season... all in less than 12 months. It was a PR free-fall like few have ever witnessed. Very few season-tickets were renewed. Even if the Bengals were currently 14-0... it's extraordinarily difficult to sell-out when so many single game tickets must be sold.

You guys want someone to blame for the empty seats? I'd point to the guy in Oakland.

[ArmyBengal]

I'm cool with the other thought process, I was only trying to present what I think is a fairly good reason why things are the way they are with attendance. Of course, like Derek said, there is more to it and wasn't saying everything is due to the poor economy. I'm changing everything about what I did when I was in the Army to a new career. It includes taking a new position at an entry level in a new career field and going back to school to give myself an advantage moving forward. I'm kind of starting over again and don't plan on my current situation lasting more than another year or two at most.

When that happens, yes, I will be at more games than not.

[walzav29]

I'm not terribly interested in this conversation, but just to give my two cents... I don't think any amount of on-the-field success was going to compensate for the perceived train-wreck of an offseason.

Lots of people bought season-tickets in 2010 hoping to see the team take the next step from '09. Bengals hype was at record levels. Many expected a Super Bowl run... but the team collapsed.

Coming into 2011, experts wrongly looked at Chad, T.O. and Palmer as the Bengals three best players. Only managing 4 wins with them... what could be expected without them? It looked like a disaster. The first year in a complete overhaul.

Going from Super-Bowl aspirations to expecting a potential 0 win season... all in less than 12 months. It was a PR free-fall like few have ever witnessed. Very few season-tickets were renewed. Even if the Bengals were currently 14-0... it's extraordinarily difficult to sell-out when so many single game tickets must be sold.

You guys want someone to blame for the empty seats? I'd point to the guy in Oakland.

I didn't know that it was difficult to sell single tickets. You'd think they'd do a bunch of contests, bundled deals, sales, whatever it take to fill these last two games. They would still sell concessions.

[TJJackson]

I didn't know that it was difficult to sell single tickets. You'd think they'd do a bunch of contests, bundled deals, sales, whatever it take to fill these last two games. They would still sell concessions.

That'd require a competent GM thinking ever so slightly out of the box

Not gonna happen.

[derekshank]

According to Reedy, more than 14,000 seats will see price reductions in 2012, some by as much as 33 percent.

Combine that with the buy one get one free offer, that cost him over $200,000 out of pocket, and you'd have to admit that Mike Brown is trying to win the fans back.

So... who will be the Mike Brown hater that finds a way to paint this in a negative light?

[TJJackson]

According to Reedy, more than 14,000 seats will see price reductions in 2012, some by as much as 33 percent.

Combine that with the buy one get one free offer, that cost him over $200,000 out of pocket, and you'd have to admit that Mike Brown is trying to win the fans back.

So... who will be the Mike Brown hater that finds a way to paint this in a negative light?

Hopefully me, and to that end, I am furiously crafting a response

[Stripes]

According to Reedy, more than 14,000 seats will see price reductions in 2012, some by as much as 33 percent.

Combine that with the buy one get one free offer, that cost him over $200,000 out of pocket, and you'd have to admit that Mike Brown is trying to win the fans back.

So... who will be the Mike Brown hater that finds a way to paint this in a negative light?

If that's true, then: