Sick this morning

[derekshank]

I agree with the above as a description of far too many Bengal fans.

Of course you do. Because I'm not wrong and you know it. But because you don't like the larger implications of what I wrote your next move was to mock me rather than simply offer agreement, and then shut up, as you should have.

How wrong you are. I'm fine with any and all implications of your previous rant. You know... because I agree with you on that particular point.

Just because I agree with this rant, doesn't mean you are consistent in your views. You are quick to dismiss opinions that disagree with your complaints by playing the "you're a homer" card. And yet... what I hear now is that your biggest complaint with the fanbase is that there aren't enough "homers" around here.

[bwillycuse]

Marvin just addressed it again in his last press conference

....because he was specifically asked about it

Of course he was asked about it. It's relevant. Which is exactly why I'm talking about it.

I'm not the one pretending this isn't an issue. Or if you prefer, I'm not the one popping off about the cart being before the horse.

Every problem should have a consequence and a potential solution.

What's the consequence to people not coming to games? Will MB move the team? Doubtful. Again, what's the consequence?

One consequence is your good young players will sign their second contracts elsewhere. I would want to go to a full stadium and a fanbase that supports them. Why would you stay in Cincy?

Another is not being able to bring in free agents. Or vastly overpaying for mediocre talent.

Hence why we have Pac Man,Benson, had TO, Tank, etc.

[HoosierCat]

Did that change with the last CBA? It always used to be a 60:40 split, home team:visiting team.

Are you saying now that all the ticket sale revenue is thrown into one pot and split 32 ways so the Bengals get a share of ticket sales in Dallas?

Yeah, it used to be a 60/40 split but they changed it years ago to just one big pot divided by 32 teams. That's part of the revenue-sharing deal among the owners, which isn't part of the CBA. (Note that doesn't include stuff like luxury suites which each team keeps all of. I think that goes for seat licenses and things like that too.)

[HairOnFire]

It's worth noting that as recently as 2 yrs ago they not only were selling out, there was a waiting list. So when did the Cin fans become the worst?

This year, according to statistical evidence. However, according to an informal survey measuring the amount of sports memorabilia worn at local zoos the Bengals are still a very hot ticket. (Don't delay. Only 30,000 seats still available.)

[HairOnFire]

But that's the real problem: MB doesn't really care about making money for the NFL. Ticket revenue now goes into a big pot split equally by the owners, so the impact of him not selling out is, financially speaking, peanuts.

If true, then how stupid are the locals who feel they're holding Mike Brown's feet to the fire?

And I would be willing to bet that Brown likes it that way. He's old school, and old school NFL thinking on home games is not to televise them under any circumstances.

Exactly. Far better to make the penny pinching portion of the fanbase scramble to find illegal internet streams.

[TJJackson]

If true, then how stupid are the locals who feel they're holding Mike Brown's feet to the fire?

Au contraire, my sweetness and light.....I am withholding the the warmth of my fire from his old cold feet

And it doesn't matter to me if he is being denied 100 pennies or 1 penny or anything inbetween of my withheld dollar. As George Thoroughly good once sang, he ain't gonna get none of it

I also make all major purchases in other Counties to avoid paying the stadium tax. But yeah, unfortunately, he still gets the half cent on the odd gallon of milk of milk and/or loaf of whole wheat bread here and there.

[HoosierCat]

If true, then how stupid are the locals who feel they're holding Mike Brown's feet to the fire?

I think you and I have agreed for 15+ years that they're crazy. We went through this way back on the old aol boards. With the NFL's revenue-sharing structure, there's no way for fans to significantly impact Mike's pocketbook.

[HairOnFire]

Recently, Reedy did a "reverse" on his 20 questions where he asked the fans some questions. The leading question was why aren't you attending? The most popular answer BY FAR was Mike f'in Brown

The popularity of an opinion isn't proof of anything worth mentioning.

[TJJackson]

scramble to find illegal internet streams.

No again....I have that favorite'd now, so no scrambling required

[HoosierCat]

scramble to find illegal internet streams.

No again....I have that favorite'd now, so no scrambling required

Or just hit the neighborhood bar...

/>http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20111209/COL03/312090052/Doc-Blackout-What-blackout-?odyssey=mod|newswell|text|Columnists|s

[TJJackson]

Recently, Reedy did a "reverse" on his 20 questions where he asked the fans some questions. The leading question was why aren't you attending? The most popular answer BY FAR was Mike f'in Brown

The popularity of an opinion isn't proof of anything worth mentioning.

Nor is you re-bleating the same inanity of the necessity to spend cash to qualify as a fan as if it were God's own truth over and over again, but there is is anyway.......

[HairOnFire]

I'm fine with any and all implications of your previous rant. You know... because I agree with you on that particular point.

Of course you do.

Just because I agree with this rant, doesn't mean you are consistent in your views. You are quick to dismiss opinions that disagree with your complaints by playing the "you're a homer" card. And yet...

And yet you feel compelled to keep flapping your gums like some attention needy child about something I said weeks or months ago. Something that was neither incendiary or worthy of prolonged debate, but of course was debated too long and too hotly because some of you can't handle fairly minor criticism being directed at Andy Dalton. Criticism that by the way has been proven true over and over again in the last few weeks.

Or hadn't you noticed?

[HairOnFire]

If true, then how stupid are the locals who feel they're holding Mike Brown's feet to the fire?

I think you and I have agreed for 15+ years that they're crazy. We went through this way back on the old aol boards. With the NFL's revenue-sharing structure, there's no way for fans to significantly impact Mike's pocketbook.

Let's be accurate on this one because it matters.

They're not crazy. They're stupid.

And they're hurting this team far more than they're hurting Mike Brown.

[HoosierCat]

And they're hurting this team far more than they're hurting Mike Brown.

You could just as easily argue that Mike Brown is hurting the team by not doing all he can to fill the stands. Offering free tickets to me if I bought season tickets when I was 3 hardly constitutes much of an effort.

Edited to add: reminder: lets talk about the Bengals, not the mods.

[cincyhokie]

Marvin just addressed it again in his last press conference

....because he was specifically asked about it

Of course he was asked about it. It's relevant. Which is exactly why I'm talking about it.

I'm not the one pretending this isn't an issue. Or if you prefer, I'm not the one popping off about the cart being before the horse.

Every problem should have a consequence and a potential solution.

What's the consequence to people not coming to games? Will MB move the team? Doubtful. Again, what's the consequence?

One consequence is your good young players will sign their second contracts elsewhere. I would want to go to a full stadium and a fanbase that supports them. Why would you stay in Cincy?

Another is not being able to bring in free agents. Or vastly overpaying for mediocre talent.

Hence why we have Pac Man,Benson, had TO, Tank, etc.

Agreed. But all of the examples you have mentioned and the lack of attendance can be attributed to one factor. Winning games. And winning games is not the fans responsibility.

[semiotter]

Just another year being a Bengal fan. Sad but true!!!

[HoosierCat]

Agreed. But all of the examples you have mentioned and the lack of attendance can be attributed to one factor. Winning games. And winning games is not the fans responsibility.

I think you can legitimately argue that a full stadium contributes to winning (see Seattle). I think you can also legitimately argue that the Bengals' FO hasn't done anywhere near enough to try and fill the stadium. IMHO it's that both sides are dragging too much baggage. On one side you have years of losing, on the other years of billboards, web sites, banners and urinal cakes. The relationship between the fans and the organization is broken on both sides. And right now no one seems interested in finding a solution.

[TJJackson]

The solution grows closer daily, and is inevitable - he won't live forever.....

whether your house is made of bricks of the finest ganja and your wallet lined with 100's, or you write out the check to CG&E instead of the credit card company because you cant do both - mortality is the great equalizer

[derekshank]

]And yet you feel compelled to keep flapping your gums like some attention needy child about something I said weeks or months ago.

Is there a statute of limitations on things you've said?

Look... All I ever said was that you lob insults from both sides of the fence whenever it serves you. It seems to me that you should pick a side. I'm not sure why the suggestion has agitated you so much.

[HoosierCat]

The solution is inevitable - he won't live forever.....

whether your house is made of bricks of the finest ganja and your wallet lined with 100's, or you write out the check to CG&E instead of the credit card company because you cant do both - mortality is the great equalizer

It is, but ask yourself, is that kind of thinking productive? If you're Mike Brown and you know the fans think the only solution is for you to take a dirt nap, well, that doesn't give you much incentive to change your ways, does it? Why bother trying, they'll just spit on anything you do. And so the cycle continues. I don't know how to break it.

[cincyhokie]

Agreed. But all of the examples you have mentioned and the lack of attendance can be attributed to one factor. Winning games. And winning games is not the fans responsibility.

I think you can legitimately argue that a full stadium contributes to winning (see Seattle). I think you can also legitimately argue that the Bengals' FO hasn't done anywhere near enough to try and fill the stadium. IMHO it's that both sides are dragging too much baggage. On one side you have years of losing, on the other years of billboards, web sites, banners and urinal cakes. The relationship between the fans and the organization is broken on both sides. And right now no one seems interested in finding a solution.

The relationship between fans and team is a big factor there in Seattle, definately. Seattle's organization established a 12th man ritual and litterally built the stadium for the fans and the effect of a full stadium. But yeah, I think you're right there is a huge disconnect there on both sides. I would argue that since the fans flipped the bill for the stadium and packed it from 2003-2009, it's now the Bengals turn to try and mend the gap.

[TJJackson]

The solution is inevitable - he won't live forever.....

whether your house is made of bricks of the finest ganja and your wallet lined with 100's, or you write out the check to CG&E instead of the credit card company because you cant do both - mortality is the great equalizer

It is, but ask yourself, is that kind of thinking productive? If you're Mike Brown and you know the fans think the only solution is for you to take a dirt nap, well, that doesn't give you much incentive to change your ways, does it? Why bother trying, they'll just spit on anything you do. And so the cycle continues. I don't know how to break it.

I understand your point, but to clarify - I believe Mike is entrenched in how he "runs" (please accept the use of this term in the loosest sense possible) this team, and no amount of enthusiasm or flurries of spending on mine or anyone's part will change that. If he gets more love or more money or both - he will simply view this as the rest of us coming to our collective senses and discovering what a wonderful fellow he has been all along - and business as usual will continue as usual.

But the cycle will break, as stated above.

[HoosierCat]

I would argue that since the fans flipped the bill for the stadium and packed it from 2003-2009, it's now the Bengals turn to try and mend the gap.

I think that's fair. Unfortunately, I also think the disastrous offseason, and in particular Carson Palmer, twisted this particular year out of all reason. Hopefully a .500-ish season, a good draft and a normal offseason bring some semblance of balance back.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

And so the cycle continues. I don't know how to break it.

Hand the car keys to someone who knows what they're doing and go play golf.

[TJJackson]

Hope springs eternal

Mike Brown could see the three ghosts and bring the prize goose to Tiny Tim's table yet