Preseason Week 1: Lions v. Bengals Game Thread

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

Tell me this - what is the benefit of starting him week 1 vs, say, after the bye?

Simple... the schedule. Having warmup games against the likes of Cleveland, Buffalo, SF, and Denver is nicer than having your 3rd game be against Pittsburgh.

Gotta play 'em sometime. And while I get what you're saying about the schedule, I think O-lines will be so far behind D-lines during the early season, that effect will be more significant than the schedule. Dalton will also have more time to learn by then.

I'd at least wait until week 4 or so, just to give the line time to get their sh*t together, to the extent it ever will. I can see mixing him in earlier (few series a game, maybe) if the line can show it can hold against those teams, but I wouldn't bet on it.

[cincy9275]

Alexander is Mikeys golden boy and gets what he wants... he wanted Stacey Andrews and not only did he get him we bounced Willie Anderson so he little pet project could start.

Yeah, Willie had a lot left in the tank, didn't he? How long did he play in Baltimore again? 11 games?

If you need 2nd and 3rd round interior linemen in every spot and first/2nd round right tackles to be good? You suck at your job.

In '09 the O-Line had almost no experience. Whitworth hadn't started at LT since college, and with the exception of an aging Bobby Williams, the rest of the group were undrafted free agents. That group was in the top 10 in sacks allowed and top 10 in rushing yards. So... I guess he doesn't "need" 2nd and 3rd round interior linemen in every spot, does he?

Talent he handpicked on the O.L. I wouldn't say he has done well at all. It is amazing to me offensive line coaches across the NFL can pick up 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th and UDFA linemen year in, year out and develop them yet Alexander has yet to develop ONE linemen in twenty f**king years. No dice, and our best linemen such as Willie, Braham and Munoz agree, Alexander is a joke.

Care to back any of this up? Seriously... Any of it. I'll get you started:

1) Where is your evidence that Alexander "hand-picks" these players? Because, other than A.Smith, the O-Line has been ignored in the draft for years.

2) Who are the O-Line coaches across the NFL that do these miracles? Give me just 2 examples of any O-Line coach, getting multiple late draft picks to perform at a high level. It should be easy to come up with 2 names... since it's so widespread. (Hint: cite articles like this to illustrate how good a coach is at getting former practice squad guys ready for starting a job)

3) Can you provide quotes from Willie, Braham, and Munoz? I want to hear them call Alexander is a joke.

This should be easy for you, since it is all indisputable fact... or, maybe you're full of s**t.

dude is paul really your dad? because you are defending him as if he is. if paul did not choose this line then who did? i know mike brown it's all his fault. damn you mike brown!

i will say that during the game munoz could not even find a o-lineman to praise. he was going to use livings but said he had no clue on what livings was trying to do. then he also pointed out how andre whiffed bad on a db. i don't call that a glowing praise on pauls coaching, some might even call it a knock against it.

[cincy9275]

It's not as if Anthony Munoz and Max Montoya are riding the bench, so it's not fair to blame the coaching for the lack of talent made available to them.

Alexander is Mikeys golden boy and gets what he wants. He wanted Tubs O'Fun and got him, he wanted Stacey Andrews and not only did he get him we bounced Willie Anderson so he little pet project could start.

It's not Paul Alexander's responsibility to acquire talent.

No it is his responsibility to COACH. Yet he runs his mouth on "give me an Andre Smith, gimme this project, gimme that project, I like Livings he needs to start." On the coaching side? The fact remains the only time he has EVER had a good offensive line was when he had two first round book ends, a 2nd round RG, a 3rd round center and an already proven and coached up Bobbie Williams. If you need 2nd and 3rd round interior linemen in every spot and first/2nd round right tackles to be good? You suck at your job.

But there is only one 1st round draft pick on the roster, and he's been an injury prone tub of goo. I'd say Alexander has done relatively well considering the talent level of his roster.

Talent he handpicked on the O.L. I wouldn't say he has done well at all. It is amazing to me offensive line coaches across the NFL can pick up 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th and UDFA linemen year in, year out and develop them yet Alexander has yet to develop ONE linemen in twenty f**king years. No dice, and our best linemen such as Willie, Braham and Munoz agree, Alexander is a joke.

yep not a single one fact is he has not developed one single lineman that was drafted beyond the 2nd rd. twenty years 1 probowler 1 decent player big whit. then he gets no credit for braham he should give braham credit for for showing paul how a center is supposed to play!

[cincy9275]

lol even hobson is taking shots at the o-line.

» The Bengals have to be looking at their guard situation. Is it time for rookie Clint Boling or veteran Max Jean-Gilles to get more snaps?

ya think!

[TJJackson]

Looks like I was waaaaaay to upbeat on this team when - about a month ago? - I picked them to go 3-13

[BengalszoneBilly]

Looks like I was waaaaaay to upbeat on this team when - about a month ago? - I picked them to go 3-13

You are far too generous TJ. Behind this coaching staff, the Bengals will be lucky to win a single game! I feel Marvin Lewis is only playing out the string for a check. Green and Dalton have no idea what depth of hell they have been drafted into. It's one f**ked up mess.

[volcom69]

I know Jay Gruden was only trying to feel what kind of team he has or what kind of players he has, but does anyone else think he should have ran the ball more??? I mean he came out throwing the ball deep, why not come out and ease Dalton into the game. They were running the ball pretty good with Ced, i would have liked to seen more running one the first drive, with some short screens, or short passes to ease Dalton in. Like i said i think Jay was just seeing what he had, but i did think Jay changed his calls after the int though, and it seemed to work.

[volcom69]

Looks like I was waaaaaay to upbeat on this team when - about a month ago? - I picked them to go 3-13

You are far too generous TJ. Behind this coaching staff, the Bengals will be lucky to win a single game! I feel Marvin Lewis is only playing out the string for a check. Green and Dalton have no idea what depth of hell they have been drafted into. It's one f**ked up mess.

One thing i did notice, is Marvin shows no emotion at all. He used too back in 2003 when this was all new to him, but last year, and last night he always has the same look. I want someone firey in there, somebody who gets on guys when they suck, and a coach who is cheering the team on when they are doing great. Not Marvin though he has the same look all game long! Somebody needs to fire that guy up or something LOL!

[kingwilly]

lol even hobson is taking shots at the o-line.

» The Bengals have to be looking at their guard situation. Is it time for rookie Clint Boling or veteran Max Jean-Gilles to get more snaps?

ya think!

Thinking about this, Mathis played darned well, far superior to Livings... and yet there was no effort to get him starting or even retained for depth.... Alexander might just be the worst coach in the AFC.

Funny, as well, is seeing Deuce Lutui blacking all over the place during the AZ preseason game.... Yet, somehow, he could not pass the Bengals physical.

Now, the pre-season is here, and here we are with MJG as the lone FA lineman brought in to help add depth for the protection of Dalton, our rookie starter.

jesus.

[BengalszoneBilly]

Looks like I was waaaaaay to upbeat on this team when - about a month ago? - I picked them to go 3-13

You are far too generous TJ. Behind this coaching staff, the Bengals will be lucky to win a single game! I feel Marvin Lewis is only playing out the string for a check. Green and Dalton have no idea what depth of hell they have been drafted into. It's one f**ked up mess.

One thing i did notice, is Marvin shows no emotion at all. He used too back in 2003 when this was all new to him, but last year, and last night he always has the same look. I want someone firey in there, somebody who gets on guys when they suck, and a coach who is cheering the team on when they are doing great. Not Marvin though he has the same look all game long! Somebody needs to fire that guy up or something LOL!

That's the look of a guy just going through the motions.

[kingwilly]

1) Where is your evidence that Alexander "hand-picks" these players? Because, other than A.Smith, the O-Line has been ignored in the draft for years.

2) Who are the O-Line coaches across the NFL that do these miracles? Give me just 2 examples of any O-Line coach, getting multiple late draft picks to perform at a high level. It should be easy to come up with 2 names... since it's so widespread. (Hint: cite articles like this to illustrate how good a coach is at getting former practice squad guys ready for starting a job)

3) Can you provide quotes from Willie, Braham, and Munoz? I want to hear them call Alexander is a joke.

This should be easy for you, since it is all indisputable fact... or, maybe you're full of s**t.

The line has not been ignored in the draft for years. r1 Andre Smith 09, r4 Collins 08, r2 Whit 06, r4 Andrews 04, r2 Steinbach 03... That is not "ignored" in my book. Were they all the right selections? I did not like the Smith pick, and he's been a bust (literally with a busted foot) since he arrived.

As for coaches who develop lineman, I think Pete Metzelaars in Indy does a very good job developing lineman to work in the Indy offense and Pat Flaherty for the Giants have developed some quality from late picks and undrafted FA's.

I cannot address the claim as to former players slaggin on Alexander. All I can do is assess what we see. And what we see has been something short of average.

Guys like Roland, who seems to have gone from a player I was pretty high on, to maybe a guy who will lose out to Collins...and guys like Livings, undrafted FA who simply is not very good despite massive size and strength, and other late picks like Cook (barely average), formerly Ghuisuck (dreadful), do nothing to inspire that there is some ability that indicates Alexander can develop a lower round player/UDFA and get him to a high level. Best example is maybe Roland, and that is not exactly one to showcase in Sports Illustrated.

Alexander also does not seem to have a system that is explicit. It's not a zone blocking scheme, there is not as much pulling as you'd like given that horse that Benson is. In fact, the only time I can recall thinking that the line seemd harmonious and solid was when they went to the jumbo line to accentuate the running game.

Depsite all of this, the line is tremendously undisciplined, tons of false starts, holding and generally sucky metal toughness.

Alexander is a turd. Turd should be flushed. They should have flushed Alexander when they sent Brat a packing.

[derekshank]

The line has not been ignored in the draft for years. r1 Andre Smith 09, r4 Collins 08, r2 Whit 06, r4 Andrews 04, r2 Steinbach 03... That is not "ignored" in my book. Were they all the right selections? I did not like the Smith pick, and he's been a bust (literally with a busted foot) since he arrived.

4th round picks count? Because, anytime the Bengals wait until the 4th round to pick a Safety, all of Bengalszone gets pissed that they didn't bother addressing it for another year.

4th round O-Linemen are drafted for depth. If you get more than that out of them, it's considered icing.

Guys like Roland, who seems to have gone from a player I was pretty high on, to maybe a guy who will lose out to Collins...and guys like Livings, undrafted FA who simply is not very good despite massive size and strength, and other late picks like Cook (barely average), formerly Ghuisuck (dreadful), do nothing to inspire that there is some ability that indicates Alexander can develop a lower round player/UDFA and get him to a high level. Best example is maybe Roland, and that is not exactly one to showcase in Sports Illustrated.

It's hard to make diamonds out of s**t. It's pretty damn rare to see an UDFA turn into a starter... let alone have several on the same O-Line unit. So I think it's safe to say that all of those guys did better than expected (go through and read some of the expectations of the O-Line going into the '09 season). So not being terribly impressed with them doesn't mean much. They are still playing better than their draft status.

It may be hard to believe... but I'm not actually a huge Alexander fan. But I do think he's being unjustly scapegoated in the place of an untalented roster. And while you may not be impressed by the SI article remember that we are only two seasons removed from Paul Alexander getting national praise for getting such a rag-tag O-Line to perform so well... and none of these "Paul Alexander sucks" threads existed. Just sayin'

[Kazkal]

For earlier comments about Hall being better then Joseph in 2009 and being assigned to 1#'s it was because Hall would have Help over Joseph...

Hall always plays deep and always had Help Joseph atleast played press and would be left without safety help more often.

[BengalPimp]

I've already said what i wanted during the game, watching that mess........Just wanted to show my pleasure that Billy is Back and changed his Sig.......TY Billy !!!!

[BengalPimp]

Funny, as well, is seeing Deuce Lutui blacking all over the place during the AZ preseason game.... Yet, somehow, he could not pass the Bengals physical.

Yeah, the reason for the failed physical was due to weight......but that never stopped Big Dre from passing a physical.

Seriously, the Bengals Medical Staff is a Joke anyways.....I sure as hell wouldn't trust them.......They missed out on a good player in Lutui, they'll regret it.

[wpeldios]

well im not going to go through 12 pages of what i assume is meltdown combined with high tension comments because i really dont need the tension. Also I am sure after that showing that the negatives are thoroughly covered, so I figured id just throw out a few positives I took out of the game.

Benson looks like a beast. Enough said here. Shipley has been and will continue to be my favorite nfl player. I just love watching him work. I thought reggie nelson looked solid. I still see him as possibly being a solid player for us. And I liked what I saw from Andre. Was he perfect no, but he looked in better shape and more focused than ever and made some nice blocks to go with a couple not so nice. I really saw a player focused on taking a step forward. And more than anything watching him stand up to Suh after the cheap slam dalton on his head play impressed me. Andre has never been one to take charge like that for us and to me that was the biggest highlight of the game. It shows he cares, not just about money or bacon double cheeseburgers, but about his teammates too, even if they are ginger haired quarterbacks.

This game was pretty much what I expected and Im going to focus on keeping posts positive this year despite the fact I see a 2 win team.

[UK Bengal]

It never fails to amaze me 1st pre season game after a lockout and your all calling for heads you all must be freaking nutz.

Dalton's INT was due to his arm getting hit as he threw after that he was ok 11-16 is ok yeah the yards were not there but thats due to other factors like THERE IS ANOTHER f**king TEAM OUT THERE ITS NOT PRACTICE so its going to be hard. They are called pre season for a reason to work out the kinks see what works and what doesnt and your have to remember the lions are a much much improved team and i can see them challenging for their div.

We all know this is gonna be a rebuilding year a lockout a new offence installed in weeks not months things are not going to work and we have to face that so lay the f**k off dalton and give the guy a chance 1 f**king game does not a bust make.

reserve your judgement till after the opener against the stains if its not improved by them i would say yeah its gonna be a long hard season.

rant over

[derekshank]

I think it was last year at this time when people were saying that Matt Jones was awesome and was a lock to make the team over Jerome Simpson. #perspective

[derekshank]

Anyone see the Bears last night? Their O-Line was their strength last year. They couldn't block anyone last night. The starters gave up 4 sacks in the first half... to the Bills!

My point? Cincy is not the only team that looked unprepared for the first game.

[cincyhokie]

Positives:

Did anyone else notice the lack of false start penalties? All in all, the Bengals kept the penalties down as a team which was nice to see.

On 3rd and short they DIDN'T lineup in the shotgun. Nice to see.

Simpson absolutely laid out a LB on the pass to Green. When was the last time on of the WR's did that? Nice to see.

Flesh Zeppelin got in Suh's face when Suh tried to take off Dalton's head. Nice to see the "passion and energy" on the offensive line. Dalton never looked rattled at any point in time.

AJ Green is going to be an absolute stud.

Let's not kid ourselves, this team is going to suck and it's going to suck worse than I thought. However, this team should show improvements game to game as the season goes on and that's all we can really ask for.

[ArmyBengal]

I watched only a limited portion of the game to this point and need to catch up on the DVR.

That being said, I will only say that you can't put to much into games this early to mean one thing or another.

Meaning, you can't look at what Cleveland did to Green Bay and say, "They are going to the playoffs" just like you can't look at what the Bengals did against Detroit and say, "They are the worst team in the NFL". It doesn't mean it's not going to be the case come the end of the season, but just give it some time. I haven't looked over all the pages, but assume the worst is being thought at this point. There are only a few people here that were thinking this team was going to win more than 6 games to begin with. Did anyone see something that completely and totally caught them off guard considering all the changes and lockout ?? Seriously, i'm not surprised to see highlights of our offense struggling. Not am I surprised at watching so many new defensive guys give up points. Special teams ?? Special Ed.

This season has started about the way I thought it would and for what it's worth, everyone expecting the opener against Cleveland to be one for the "W" column should think twice. Keep your heads up Bengals fans, it's probably going to get worse before it gets better.

[cincy9275]

I watched only a limited portion of the game to this point and need to catch up on the DVR.

That being said, I will only say that you can't put to much into games this early to mean one thing or another.

Meaning, you can't look at what Cleveland did to Green Bay and say, "They are going to the playoffs" just like you can't look at what the Bengals did against Detroit and say, "They are the worst team in the NFL". It doesn't mean it's not going to be the case come the end of the season, but just give it some time. I haven't looked over all the pages, but assume the worst is being thought at this point. There are only a few people here that were thinking this team was going to win more than 6 games to begin with. Did anyone see something that completely and totally caught them off guard considering all the changes and lockout ?? Seriously, i'm not surprised to see highlights of our offense struggling. Not am I surprised at watching so many new defensive guys give up points. Special teams ?? Special Ed.

This season has started about the way I thought it would and for what it's worth, everyone expecting the opener against Cleveland to be one for the "W" column should think twice. Keep your heads up Bengals fans, it's probably going to get worse before it gets better.

i don't think they can get any worse, or at least i hope not. a good butt kicking is a great motivator so lets hope that is the case here.

[volcom69]

For earlier comments about Hall being better then Joseph in 2009 and being assigned to 1#'s it was because Hall would have Help over Joseph...

Hall always plays deep and always had Help Joseph atleast played press and would be left without safety help more often.

Actully if you watch Hall in the preseason game he actully ran stride for stride with Johnson, his problem was he was getting turned around. He played the man instead of the ball. Everybody always worries about Hall, heck people are calling for him to be cut on other boards, are you kidding me give the guy a chance. Heck they moved him this year to the LCB spot, which im not really sure why. Im actully happy to have Hall and think he will have a good year, it was his first game after the lockout, and he got twisted around a couple of times.

Oh and i was never sold on Jjoe, sure he was good, but he also would get burnt alot. He could hardley stay healthy, heck he is already getting shots because of a groin problem in Housten right now. I liked Jjoe wish he was still hear, but he still had just as much problems as Hall does.

[cincy9275]

there was some positives in that game.

once andy settled down he looked good. nice zip on his passes and at one point was 8/9 on his last drive.

the young w/r's have some very nice hands, simpson should have had a td, just barley missed getting the 2nd foot down. added with some nice downfield blocking the young guys looked good.

ced looked very good on the carries he did have quick and strong. leonard looked like he always does great effort and a tough runner.

the interior o-line struggled very bad, but to their credit no pre snap penalties.

defense rey looked good as did skuta, mcdonald had a good game.

[ArmyBengal]

i don't think they can get any worse

Uh oh, now you did it...