Carson Palmer Thread

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

Here's a thought. SoP dug in his heels because he felt truly betrayed by Palmer. In calling his bluff to retire, SoP was giving Palmer a nice retaliatory screwing in return.

I think it's likely that Hue made a call and Mikey did it for him. Could be that we lucked into a scenario in which Mikey's loyalty was able to combine with the ludicrosity of the trade to defeat his spite for Palmer.

If I was playing fantasy football, I'd name my team "Jason Campbell's Collarbone".

[derekshank]

I find it odd that some who thought getting that first rounder was giving in and settling, but are praising the organization today. Which is it ??

I'm not sure if you are referring to me or not... but I'll address my take (as I feel I have been pretty consistent on this throughout).

1) Even today I have made reference to the fact that trading a known commodity (a veteran QB) for an unknown one (draft picks) is a risky proposition. Looking at the players that Denver received in compensation for Cutler and Marshall makes both of those deals look like terrible trades. So there is still a question about whether the Bengals got peanuts in return for Palmer. Only time will tell.

2) It seems as though Palmer has been successfully replaced with the 2nd round pick in the 2011 draft... so much of the above rant is rendered moot. When initially asked to consider the idea of Palmer in exchange for a draft pick, the assumption was that the compensation would be used on his replacement. I was not in favor of it... because it was more than likely that the Bengals would have ended up getting the short end of the stick (not to mention the fact that compensation nearly always plummets when a team feels like they MUST trade a player).

3) From a "principle" aspect, it does rub me the wrong way that Palmer got his way... and I wish him nothing but bad. I hope he never wins another game. I hope Oakland fans empty dumpsters on his front lawn. However, this deal was made on Mike Brown's terms, not Palmer's... and if these are Brown's terms, so be it. The way it all played out only reinforced the fact that Mike Brown is calling the shots... not the players. Did Palmer get out of Cincy? Sure - but it was clear a long time ago that the dude had no leverage whatsoever. Mike Brown won.

[HoosierCat]

Doc: Mike Brown's Finest Hour.

worth it for this alone:

Brown wasn’t going to trade Palmer until Jason Campbell broke his collarbone two days before the trade deadline. That’s when Brown got what he loves most: Leverage. He used it to ram a spectacular steal-deal up Oakland’s aspirations.

[membengal]

Rooting for this to blow up in the Raiders' face - this year. If Oakland were to crash from here and limp home 6-10, that becomes a top 12 pick for the Bengals. Yes please.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

Why can't you see that it wasn't luck? Hair and others have predicted this for months.

Well, if Jason Campbell finishes the game it doesn't happen. While I was all about the maximize leverage strategy, the safer move was to deal him to the Cardinals during the offseason. Here, Mikey went all in on a straight draw and hit it on the river.

So yeah, it worked, but it definitely required a sequence of events that were outside his control.

But I give him credit for extracting an unbelievable bounty out of the Raiders - and actually taking it. This is possibly the dumbest deal I've seen since the last overrated QB (see Kolb, Kevin and Cassell, Matt).

[COB]

To this point, I do agree. The recent drafts, even Fat Andre's magic foot, are working out. I salute the luck of the day with the Palmer trade, and the 2010 and 2011 drafts.

I too salute the successful drafting recently. But I'd need to know more about the inner workings to be convinced Mike had a whole lot to do with those selections. My guess is coaches, Katie, etc., make the decisions, and Mike just gives the final go ahead.

Luck had nothing to do with this trade. Mike Brown is a shrewd motherf**ker who plays hardball when everyone around him is swinging wiffle ball bats.

Case in point: Before Paul Brown died he and Mike put into place a plan to almost completely avoid estate tax and captial gains tax on his Bengals stock. After Paul's death the IRS challenged the plan, claiming it was a tax dodge. They took Mike to court and he beat their asses.

Case in point: The stadium deal thought by most to be the most favorable in the NFL. Openly negotiated by Mike with Hamilton County.

Case in point: A first and a conditional second for a broken down quarterback with no leadership skills and very clearly declining football skills.

Mike Brown negotiated from a position of strength, rolled the dice that someone, not necessarily the Raiders, but someone, would find themselves desperate for a starting quarterback.

Basically, if you want to negotiate with Mike Brown, get ready to get f**ked. He'll maximize whatever advantage he has and neutralize whatever advantage you have. He just won't give in.

His biggest advantage in most situations? He just doesn't give a f**k. Everyone else wants to avoid looking stupid in the media, avoid being the bad guy, avoid like 20 losing seasons in a row. Mike doesn't care.

In no way does any of this mean he knows much about football. In my opinion, if Carson hadn't quit, we'd be suffering through Bob Bratkowski, Chad, and Carson and yet another horrible season.

I also reject the notion that he's a great businessman. He nickle and dimes s**t around PBS constantly, and leaves money on the table by GM'ing the whole thing to a crap record almost every year.

Mike runs the Benglas not like a business, but like a legal entity. He's a shark lawyer almost without compare, and his one and only client is the Bengals. Contract to avoid paying taxes? Crushes it. Contract to get a stadium built and run? Crushes it. Employee won't live up to employment contract? Crushes it. Contract to trade an employment contract for other legal rights to select future employees? Crushes it.

Almost any football related decision? Gets crushed by it.

[derekshank]

I think it's likely that Hue made a call and Mikey did it for him.

Raping Oakland's future was Mike Brown's favor to an old friend?

Geesh. I'd hate to get on his bad side.

[derekshank]

Rooting for this to blow up in the Raiders' face - this year. If Oakland were to crash from here and limp home 6-10, that becomes a top 12 pick for the Bengals. Yes please.

This... except I was thinking more like 4-12 and a top 5 pick.

Didn't think it was possible... but there is now a team that I want to see fail almost as much as I want the Steelers to. Once Palmer is gone... the Raiders can go back to being on my "disinterested" list, but as long as he's there, I hope they suck.

[TJJackson]

I am minded of the old adage about it sometimes being better to be lucky than good - and to extend that a tad bit further, its best to be both

as was the case here

[TJJackson]

Luck had nothing to do with this trade

Unless SoaG paid the two Cleveland defenders to do what they did to Jason Campbell, or the cameras lie and SoaG personally busted Campbell's shoulder, then sorry, no, there was definitely some luck involved.

[BengalszoneBilly]

I haven't checked this for accuracy, but one of the talking heads on NFL Network said that we have 9 picks in the first 3 rounds of the next two drafts.

That's ridiculously awesome if true.

It's awesomely insane! I just hope we do the most with them.

Luck had nothing to do with this trade

Unless SoaG paid the two Cleveland defenders to do what they did to Jason Campbell, or the cameras lie and SoaG personally busted Campbell's shoulder, then sorry, no, there was definitely some luck involved.

Mike rolled the dice and came up big. You've gotta admit he was due.

[TJJackson]

Mike rolled the dice and came up big. You've gotta admit he was due.

Yes, the blind squirrel will eventually get that nut

He picked himself one heckuva hellacious nut

Praise the Lord and pass the 10 dollar hot dogs (the grill is fixed now, right?) (yes, THAT GRILL)

[Stripes]

Raider Nation seems mostly stoked.

/>http://www.raiderfans.net/forum/oakland-raiders-forum-message-board/181927-playoffs-bust-carson-palmer-trade.html

[TJJackson]

Bicentennial, here we come.......94 to go

[HoosierCat]

Raider Nation seems mostly stoked.

/>http://www.raiderfans.net/forum/oakland-raiders-forum-message-board/181927-playoffs-bust-carson-palmer-trade.html

I would be too if I were them.

Look, we saw at the end of 2010 that when Carson wants to play and he's got receivers who go to the spots they're supposed to go to and fight for the ball (Caldwell and Simpson vs. TOcho) he can still be damned good. And Hue certainly knows how to use him.

There's no doubt the Bngals got great value for Palmer, far better than just about anyone (myself excepted, of course ) thought they could get. But if Palmer pans out for Oakland, hell be worth every draft peanut they just spent.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

I think it's likely that Hue made a call and Mikey did it for him.

Raping Oakland's future was Mike Brown's favor to an old friend?

Geesh. I'd hate to get on his bad side.

Agreed. Hey, I'm trying to give the coot credit for his better qualities. Even given the sizable bounty, he had his heels dug in pretty firmly.

Crazy, crazy trade.

[Sea Ray]

Update to the update: per Lombardi at nfl.com the pick upgrades if they win a divisional game in 2011 or 2012.

In other words they have to make it to the AFC Championship game. That's pretty lofty. Very unlikely. I'd just as soon they miss the playoffs and we'll get a real nice 1st rd pick this yr and a 2nd next year just for fun.

[HoosierCat]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrbvJvSKZm0

[BengalszoneBilly]

Update to the update: per Lombardi at nfl.com the pick upgrades if they win a divisional game in 2011 or 2012.

In other words they have to make it to the AFC Championship game. That's pretty lofty. Very unlikely. I'd just as soon they miss the playoffs and we'll get a real nice 1st rd pick this yr and a 2nd next year just for fun.

I'm good with that. I've never really cared for the Raiders anyway except for George Blanda. Him I liked.

[Sea Ray]

I'm good with that. I've never really cared for the Raiders anyway except for George Blanda. Him I liked.

I really liked the John Madden/Ken Stabler led Raiders of the 70s because if nothing else they kept the Steelers from winning a few more SBs

[Sea Ray]

I haven't checked this for accuracy, but one of the talking heads on NFL Network said that we have 9 picks in the first 3 rounds of the next two drafts.

That's ridiculously awesome if true.

According to Wiki they don't have any other extra picks in rd 1-3 in 2012-3. We get a 5th rounder from NE because of Chad. My guess is that they're jumping the gun and they're projecting that we'll get a late 3rd rounder as compensation for the J Joe loss in FA. But the Nate Clemons signing may mitigate that.

[BengalszoneBilly]

I'm good with that. I've never really cared for the Raiders anyway except for George Blanda. Him I liked.

I really liked the John Madden/Ken Stabler led Raiders of the 70s because if nothing else they kept the Steelers from winning a few more SBs

If you can't like a team for that, what can you?

[derekshank]

As much as I hoped that Palmer would never play another down in the NFL... I am interested in watching this play out.

We now know just how bad Chad really is. Now, the question is... how bad was Palmer? If Palmer goes to Oakland with a top-tier running game... and still can't manage to be an above average QB, we'll know it wasn't just the WRs. However... if he manages to light it up and goes deep into the playoffs, we'll now how bad Bratkowski really was.

I hope the dude fails... but either way, I'm interested.

[HoosierCat]

Palmer: It was time.

[derekshank]

Reedy talked to Palmer on the phone and wrote this article.

Among my favorite quotes...

I know this was a selfish decision.

No s**t? I wouldn't have thought it was possible not to know that... but thanks for clearing it up, just the same.

I’m sorry it didn’t work out but I don’t look back with any regrets. I gave it all I had.

You gave it all you had? Are you sure you want to tell us that? Because if that was really all you had... it's just more proof that you're a p***y.