Carson Palmer Thread

[HoosierCat]

This entire thread summed up in one photo here.

[BengalszoneBilly]

This entire thread summed up in one photo here.

Very appropriate.

[HairOnFire]

Bumpity bumpity bump.

This one makes me happy.

Carson Palmer has passed the word through his network of proxies, and Dennis Jansen, claiming the Bengals are "toying" with his brother Jordan by limiting the number of reps and snaps he's given, and intend to release him only after it's too late for Jordan to catch on with another team. (As if he would.)

I say do it.

[COB]

Bumpity bumpity bump.

This one makes me happy.

Carson Palmer has passed the word through his network of proxies, and Dennis Jansen, claiming the Bengals are "toying" with his brother Jordan by limiting the number of reps and snaps he's given, and intend to release him only after it's too late for Jordan to catch on with another team. (As if he would.)

I say do it.

Carson is ridiculous. Any one of the QBs could end up getting IR'd for any number of reasons. The Bengals are like every other team, giving the bottom feeders the fewest reps, but hanging on to them until cut down day just in case. Carson has never been able to accept the fact that his brother is a marginal quarterback. Jordan actually received one vote for the Heisman - from his big brother.

[ArmyBengal]

Hey Carson, F*CK YOU, YOU BITCHASS QUITTER !!!

Don't worry about what the Bengals do. You don't care. Remember ??

F*cking assclown. I hope they do just what he thinks they are just to f*ck with all of them.

I never was a fan of Jordan anyway, so whatever.

[HoosierCat]

This month's GQ has an interview with Michael Vick in which he drops this little pocket nuke.

"I think I can say this now, because it's not going to hurt anybody's feelings, and it's the truth," Vick tells me a few weeks after the commencement ceremony. "I didn't want to come to Philadelphia. Being the third-team quarterback is nothing to smile about. Cincinnati and Buffalo were better options." Those two teams wanted him and would've allowed him to start, but after meeting with commissioner Roger Goodell and other reps from the NFL, Vick was convinced—and granted league approval—to sign with Philly. "And I commend and thank them, because they put me in the right situation."

So, before we dump on Palmer for quitting any more, might we want to consider the impact of the fact that they were actively looking to replace him -- with Micheal freakin' Vick! -- in 2009? I think were I him, that might disgruntle me just a tad. And that fact lends some weight, at least IMO, to James Walker's report last January that the Bengals also wanted Palmer to take a pay cut.

[redsbengalsbucks]

This month's GQ has an interview with Michael Vick in which he drops this little pocket nuke.

"I think I can say this now, because it's not going to hurt anybody's feelings, and it's the truth," Vick tells me a few weeks after the commencement ceremony. "I didn't want to come to Philadelphia. Being the third-team quarterback is nothing to smile about. Cincinnati and Buffalo were better options." Those two teams wanted him and would've allowed him to start, but after meeting with commissioner Roger Goodell and other reps from the NFL, Vick was convinced—and granted league approval—to sign with Philly. "And I commend and thank them, because they put me in the right situation."

So, before we dump on Palmer for quitting any more, might we want to consider the impact of the fact that they were actively looking to replace him -- with Micheal freakin' Vick! -- in 2009? I think were I him, that might disgruntle me just a tad. And that fact lends some weight, at least IMO, to James Walker's report last January that the Bengals also wanted Palmer to take a pay cut.

Just to put it in context, Palmer was trying to return after not having the surgery on his elbow that some of his doctors thought he needed. It may have been the team trying to make sure they had a better option than was currently on the roster.

IMO Palmer wasnt the same QB after he came back from that elbow injury and probably should have just had the surgery.

[HoosierCat]

Just to put it in context, Palmer was trying to return after not having the surgery on his elbow that some of his doctors thought he needed. It may have been the team trying to make sure they had a better option than was currently on the roster.

It may have been, but clearly that wasn't how it was being sold to Vick, and I have little doubt that got back to Palmer.

All I'm saying is that there are two sides to every story and so far most of what we've gotten can be traced back to the Bengals camp, which would have us believe that Carson just walked out on the team because he's a quitter and a p***y. The Bengals would have you believe that they are pure as the driven snow in this whole matter. Now out of the blue comes Vick saying they would have tossed Palmer overboard two years ago if he'd signed.

There's more to the Palmer story than what we've been fed so far. And it will come out, eventually.

[Sea Ray]

I doubt Vick would have been handed the keys fresh out of prison. At best he would have been given the chance to compete for the starting job.

As for the Bengals, let's look at that for a moment. They noted that Palmer's play had declined and they were trying to be proactive in addressing it. I think that's what you ask franchises to do. Palmer should not have taken offense to that. He should have recognized that he wasn't playing as well as he once did and welcomed the challenge. Simply put, when you play like Palmer did, you have to expect some competition or some folks saying you should take a pay cut. When you're paid what Palmer was, that goes with the territory. The team wants to get its money's worth

[COB]

This month's GQ has an interview with Michael Vick in which he drops this little pocket nuke.

"I think I can say this now, because it's not going to hurt anybody's feelings, and it's the truth," Vick tells me a few weeks after the commencement ceremony. "I didn't want to come to Philadelphia. Being the third-team quarterback is nothing to smile about. Cincinnati and Buffalo were better options." Those two teams wanted him and would've allowed him to start, but after meeting with commissioner Roger Goodell and other reps from the NFL, Vick was convinced—and granted league approval—to sign with Philly. "And I commend and thank them, because they put me in the right situation."

So, before we dump on Palmer for quitting any more, might we want to consider the impact of the fact that they were actively looking to replace him -- with Micheal freakin' Vick! -- in 2009? I think were I him, that might disgruntle me just a tad. And that fact lends some weight, at least IMO, to James Walker's report last January that the Bengals also wanted Palmer to take a pay cut.

So we could have had Michael Vick? But f**king Roger Goodell stepped in and made sure it didn't happen? Sounds about right. I absolutely despise Goodell.

[HoosierCat]

As for the Bengals, let's look at that for a moment. They noted that Palmer's play had declined and they were trying to be proactive in addressing it. I think that's what you ask franchises to do. Palmer should not have taken offense to that.

According to Vick, the Bengals weren't just being "proactive," they were handing Palmer's job to him. But even if he's overstating the case, why shouldn't we expect Palmer to start looking elsewhere, too? Everyone has been big on "commitment" lately; what does the Bengals considering even so much as a competition for a new starting QB say about how committed they were to that big contract of his?

Ask yourself this: if you went on craigslist and discovered that your employer had posted a want ad for your job, would you not take offense or would you start looking for a new gig? And if you confronted your employer and he said, oh, don't worry, we're just looking for someone to back you up, y'know, 'cause of that problem you had last year, would you be mollified?

[Sea Ray]

As for the Bengals, let's look at that for a moment. They noted that Palmer's play had declined and they were trying to be proactive in addressing it. I think that's what you ask franchises to do. Palmer should not have taken offense to that.

According to Vick, the Bengals weren't just being "proactive," they were handing Palmer's job to him. But even if he's overstating the case, why shouldn't we expect Palmer to start looking elsewhere, too? Everyone has been big on "commitment" lately; what does the Bengals considering even so much as a competition for a new starting QB say about how committed they were to that big contract of his?

Ask yourself this: if you went on craigslist and discovered that your employer had posted a want ad for your job, would you not take offense or would you start looking for a new gig? And if you confronted your employer and he said, oh, don't worry, we're just looking for someone to back you up, y'know, 'cause of that problem you had last year, would you be mollified?

I'd probably see if I could improve as a worker so my employer didn't feel the need to look elsewhere. Simply put, I wouldn't want to look like Palmer does after most Bengal games. If Palmer's contract was up, I'd have no problem with him saying "it's time to move on" but let's not pretend that he doesn't have 4 yrs left on that sucker. There has to be a price to be paid

[HoosierCat]

If Palmer's contract was up, I'd have no problem with him saying "it's time to move on" but let's not pretend that he doesn't have 4 yrs left on that sucker.

I'm not. All I'm asking is that we don't pretend that the Bengals weren't looking for an out as well.

[Sea Ray]

If Palmer's contract was up, I'd have no problem with him saying "it's time to move on" but let's not pretend that he doesn't have 4 yrs left on that sucker.

I'm not. All I'm asking is that we don't pretend that the Bengals weren't looking for an out as well.

I think they were looking for another option and I don't see anything wrong with that given his play of late. It's possible that they wanted someone to push Palmer. I don't think they were going to cut Palmer until Vick beat him on the field

[Walrus]

If Palmer's contract was up, I'd have no problem with him saying "it's time to move on" but let's not pretend that he doesn't have 4 yrs left on that sucker.

I'm not. All I'm asking is that we don't pretend that the Bengals weren't looking for an out as well.

I suspect the article might be overstating things a bit. It doesn't quote Vick as saying he would def have started in Cincy, that was a provocative editorial comment implying Vick said something like that. Who knows.

I DO recall public comments from Mike Brown as recent as last offseason referring to Carson as a "Queen Bee" in the sense that he considers the team to be built around Carson and basically what Carson wants, Carson gets. I don't know about you, but I believe Mike when he says stuff like that. I believe he meant it.

EDIT: oops. Of course, the "queen bee" comment came up at the time Brown was rumored to be interested in Vick in '09 so that kind of screws up my entire point...

[HoosierCat]

I think they were looking for another option and I don't see anything wrong with that given his play of late. It's possible that they wanted someone to push Palmer. I don't think they were going to cut Palmer until Vick beat him on the field

All of that is true, but only emphasizes the point that for at least two years the Bengals have been looking for an alternative to Palmer. Which in turn suggests that these last four years and $50 million he's supposedly walking out on have a large vaporware component to them. Palmer was either going to be cut or forced to take a big pay cut before that contract ran its course.

[Sea Ray]

All of that is true, but only emphasizes the point that for at least two years the Bengals have been looking for an alternative to Palmer. Which in turn suggests that these last four years and $50 million he's supposedly walking out on have a large vaporware component to them. Palmer was either going to be cut or forced to take a big pay cut before that contract ran its course.

Or his play could have improved after getting weapons like Gresham and TO. Indeed, if his play continued to suck he was vulnerable to a cut. No revelations there. It goes back to Paul Brown and his thinking that you don't cut a player until you have his replacement. He was going to be the QB until they found someone better. Makes sense to me

[HoosierCat]

He was going to be the QB until they found someone better. Makes sense to me

Sure it makes sense, but that isn't the issue. You can say that about every position and player. The issue here is that, according to Vick, the Bengals offered him Carson Palmer's job in 2009.

Every player knows they are replaceable. But the Bengals actually went and tried to replace him. That's the kind of thing I would expect to permanently set Palmer's teeth on edge.

Again, none of this makes it all right that Palmer walked away. But it does explain things a hell of a lot better than stories about him quitting because people peed in his pool.

[BengalByTheBay]

He was going to be the QB until they found someone better. Makes sense to me

The issue here is that, according to Vick, the Bengals offered him Carson Palmer's job in 2009.

Ridiculous. Vick was not perceived as a potential starter right away by anyone at that time. Nobody thought he would be ready to start and all of the same flaws from his game prior to the whole prison thing were still there. He was a high-risk backup. He wouldn't have even started over Fitzpatrick in Buffalo. He got his chance in Philly when Kolb got hurt. That would've been the same situation here. And let's consider the source for a minute. Michael Vick - two years later - child please.

[HoosierCat]

He was going to be the QB until they found someone better. Makes sense to me

The issue here is that, according to Vick, the Bengals offered him Carson Palmer's job in 2009.

Ridiculous. Vick was not perceived as a potential starter right away by anyone at that time.

Believe what you will. But this is the Bengals we're talking about here. And according to reports at the time, they weren't just interested, they were the first team to go after him, and actually made a better offer than the one Vick eventually signed in Philly.

[BengalByTheBay]

He was going to be the QB until they found someone better. Makes sense to me

The issue here is that, according to Vick, the Bengals offered him Carson Palmer's job in 2009.

Ridiculous. Vick was not perceived as a potential starter right away by anyone at that time.

Believe what you will. But this is the Bengals we're talking about here. And according to reports at the time, they weren't just interested, they were the first team to go after him, and actually made a better offer than the one Vick eventually signed in Philly.

None of which supports your conclusion that they were going to offer him the starting spot. All of which is supported by the consistent tendency of this club to go after high-risk/high-reward talent that is at a below market value based on trouble with the law and/or significant "character" problems. It's a case of garden variety bargain shopping - hardly a surprising move for the Bengals. In fact, the only surprise was when the Eagles entered the picture as a serious possibility. The most interesting aspect of the article you cited was that the Eagles' interest was apparently fueled in no small part by the NFL commissioner's active participation in trying to place a player with a particular team. Interesting ignorance of competitive balance and professional impartiality by an official who is supposed to be working for all of the teams wouldn't you say?

[HoosierCat]

None of which supports your conclusion that they were going to offer him the starting spot.

Hey, it's not "my conclusion." It's just what the article says.

The most interesting aspect of the article you cited was that the Eagles' interest was apparently fueled in no small part by the NFL commissioner's active participation in trying to place a player with a particular team. Interesting ignorance of competitive balance and professional impartiality by an official who is supposed to be working for all of the teams wouldn't you say?

Yes and no. In the abstract I'd say the league office has no business steering players anywhere. But Vick was obviously a unique case and part of the commissioner's job is to keep the image of the league as squeaky clean as possible. And I agree with Reedy that Vick-to-Cincy would probably ended in disaster. Buffalo too. I think you can make the argument that Goodell had a responsibility as commissioner to point Vick to the place he was most likely to succeed, and thus least likely to remain or become a bigger embarrassment to the NFL.

[derekshank]

For at least two years the Bengals have been looking for an alternative to Palmer. Which in turn suggests that these last four years and $50 million he's supposedly walking out on have a large vaporware component to them. Palmer was either going to be cut or forced to take a big pay cut before that contract ran its course.

Bulls**t. If Palmer was in danger of being cut, there was no need for this "Trade me or I'll retire" business. All he needed to do was show up and refuse a pay cut, then he could go to the team of his choosing.

Mike Brown had all his eggs in Palmer's basket. Mike Vick is the only evidence that Mike Brown has even considered a quality back-up... let alone a replacement.

If the Bengals were actively looking to replace Palmer 2 years ago, then why didn't we see the Bengals take a shot at Josh Freeman? Instead, they used their pick on a Palmer protector in Andre Smith.

Or in 2010, instead of potential Palmer replacement Jimmy Claussen, they drafted another weapon for Palmer in Jermaine Gresham. Hell, in the 3rd round there were plenty of Bengals fans asking for Colt McCoy... but the Bengals again gave Palmer another weapon instead: Jordan Shipley.

As recent as last offseason Palmer asked for T.O., and got him. Not to mention that his little brother was given a roster spot.

Nope. It doesn't add up. Palmer's replacement wasn't drafted until after Palmer's ultimatum. There was no real plan of replacement. And Palmer knew that, because he realized he was going to have to play out the remaining 4 years on his contract before he got his wish.

[HoosierCat]

If Palmer was in danger of being cut, there was no need for this "Trade me or I'll retire" business.

Based on how Palmer has played the last two years, I think you're fooling yourself if you think he was going to play here four more years and collect $50 million. Irrespective of Vick, the Palmer deal was ripe for renegotiation based on his performance, and that in fact is what James Walker alleged the Bengals tried to do.

As to why they waited until this year to draft a QB, maybe they simply didn't see anyone they thought was better than Carson, even if they did believe he'd declined. Is it a bad thing they didn't draft Jimmy Claussen, for example? And they certainly believed that they had him locked up, right? Remember Mike's initial reaction to the threat to retire, that it wasn't "practical"?

[BengalByTheBay]

None of which supports your conclusion that they were going to offer him the starting spot.

Hey, it's not "my conclusion." It's just what the article says.

It's the conclusion you've wholeheartedly adopted.

Also, why in hell would Brown continue the "he's our starter if he comes back" mantra if he was all along looking to replace Palmer? No, the explanation is simple. There was a chance to grab a value player when the market for him was for crap, so the Bengals were in the bidding. Of course Vick is going to say now there were other teams that wanted him. It's a simple ego statement. Everybody knew the Bengals and Bills made an offer at the time.

As for your take that Goddell had a legitimate interest in "steering" Vick to Philly - are you serious about that? Goddell has an equal obligation to every team in the league. If he's telling players not to go to a specific team because he thinks it might lead to problems he's favoring one team over another. That's the ONE thing he absolutely cannot do if he's going to maintain any legitimacy in his position. He is commissioner of the NFL, not the Eagles, Patriots, Cowboys and Steelers. Just go to PFT and see the sh**storm brewing over this (and the league's attempted preemptive strike - "what, we didn't do it, Vick must be mistaken") starting out of Buffalo. It's a totally legitimate corruption story and there's plenty of history of favoritism to make it believable.