Carson Palmer Thread

[HoosierCat]

Palmer's house in Indian Hill going on the market. Real estate agent: "He's not coming back."

http://www.wcpo.com/dpp/sports/football/bengals/carson-palmer's-house-going-up-for-sale

[COB]

Palmer's house in Indian Hill going on the market. Real estate agent: "He's not coming back."

http://www.wcpo.com/dpp/sports/football/bengals/carson-palmer's-house-going-up-for-sale

This is what Carson needs to do. If he's really not coming back, take some concrete steps that are consistent with that stance. Maybe then Mike will wake up and put the good of the team ahead of his own sense of principle, or whatever it is that drives him to keep disgruntled players who publicly state that they don't want to be here anymore.

[HairOnFire]

All emotion aside, I think HOF has it right - if he doesn't want to be here, best to get what they can and move on now.

But that's exactly the point. Emotion has to be put aside. Because while Carson Palmer can make an emotional decision....the Bengals can't. Regardless of whether he's central to the Bengals planning, as stated, Palmer's threats to retire put an effective end to that planning, something I believe the Bengals will be forced to acknowledge now or later.

Personally, I support Carson Palmer and I'm not part of the crowd that now considers him a bum or a stiff. In fact, under the right circumstances I think he can return to top form pretty easily if supported, and I'd love to see Jay Gruden get that chance. But despite my support of Palmer I find myself in the same camp as many of his loudest bashers simply because if he doesn't want to be here this team can't rebuild around him. So at the very least the Bengals would be well served to shop Palmer and see what they could get in return.

But here's where the water gets muddy. While the Bengals can't rebuild around a player who doesn't want to be here they can prevent him from leaving, and I think they'll do just that if they can't get substantial trade value in return for Palmer and his four year deal. In fact, I'll guess that if forced to settle for less the Bengals won't settle at all. Rather, they'll simply ignore his trade demands, plug in a stopgap starter, engage in seige warfare tactics, and wait Palmer out.

[HairOnFire]

If Carson Palmer is willing to retire now rather than fight for his career then he isn't the player I think he is. So I say he's bluffing.

Not if he's going to pull a Favre, and I think that's what he's planning.

But the Bengals aren't the Packers and without an Aaron Rogers waiting in the wings there's no way I can see Cincy ignoring the trade value that Palmer's 4-year contract represents. And there's the rub because Farve was only free to sign a FA contract with the Jets after the Packers waived his rights.

[HoosierCat]

If Carson Palmer is willing to retire now rather than fight for his career then he isn't the player I think he is. So I say he's bluffing.

Not if he's going to pull a Favre, and I think that's what he's planning.

But the Bengals aren't the Packers and without an Aaron Rogers waiting in the wings there's no way I can see Cincy ignoring the trade value that Palmer's 4-year contract represents. And there's the rub because Farve was only free to sign a FA contract with the Jets after the Packers waived his rights.

Sorry, my bad, I was referring to Favre exiting New York, not Green Bay. When Favre retired (or rather, "retired") from the Jets, that took the $13 million he would have counted against the cap off their books. Unsurprisingly, the team subsequently used that space, so when Brett changed ("changed") his mind and asked to be released from the Reserve/Retired list, the Jets had little choice. Once Favre unretired, that $13 million would have gone back on their books, forcing them to either slash their roster to keep him, or let him go anyhow.

I think Palmer is figuring that whenever a new CBA gets done it will include a cap, allowing him to do something similar unless the Bengals are willing to keep $11-12 million in cap space unused every year for the next several years to prevent him from forcing his release.

[HairOnFire]

I think Palmer is figuring that whenever a new CBA gets done it will include a cap, allowing him to do something similar unless the Bengals are willing to keep $11-12 million in cap space unused every year for the next several years to prevent him from forcing his release.

Not only do I think the Bengals would be willing to do just that if they can't trade Palmer on their terms, I don't think this thing is going to take years to play out.

Worst case scenario Palmer sits out a season, the Bengals scramble for a veteran stopgap AND a new QB of the future, and as the 2012 approaches Palmer suddenly realizes he has less leverage than he has now.

[COB]

I think Palmer is figuring that whenever a new CBA gets done it will include a cap, allowing him to do something similar unless the Bengals are willing to keep $11-12 million in cap space unused every year for the next several years to prevent him from forcing his release.

Not only do I think the Bengals would be willing to do just that if they can't trade Palmer on their terms, I don't think this thing is going to take years to play out.

Worst case scenario Palmer sits out a season, the Bengals scramble for a veteran stopgap AND a new QB of the future, and as the 2012 approaches Palmer suddenly realizes he has less leverage than he has now.

I can see Mike thinking this way. Great, Mike, you won. Now what did you win?

[glasgowbengal]

IMHO it won't be any single factor that's caused Palmer to pack his bags and want GTF out of Cinci. As ever, there will be a number of things, big and small, that will have been contributory factors. In no particular weighting:

- The two clown WRs.

- lack of investment in the OL.

- Bratkowski.

- Marvin's lack of gravitas/credibility in the locker room.

- Being regularly booed at home

- getting his home vandalised.

- the wifey being a new Mother (again) and wanting to be in the bosum of her family.

- the Brown clan and their complete and utter lack of a philosophy or plan for the club

- getting older and wanting to win eventually.

- the weather

When you see the list like that, it's a wonder he's stayed here as long as he has.

Feel free to add to it...

[Kazkal]

I think Palmer is figuring that whenever a new CBA gets done it will include a cap, allowing him to do something similar unless the Bengals are willing to keep $11-12 million in cap space unused every year for the next several years to prevent him from forcing his release.

Not only do I think the Bengals would be willing to do just that if they can't trade Palmer on their terms, I don't think this thing is going to take years to play out.

Worst case scenario Palmer sits out a season, the Bengals scramble for a veteran stopgap AND a new QB of the future, and as the 2012 approaches Palmer suddenly realizes he has less leverage than he has now.

I can see Mike thinking this way. Great, Mike, you won. Now what did you win?

Well I agree with it actually,If a team is only willing offer a 4th or 5th? I'd tell them Ferk off too come back when they have better offer "shrug"

[membengal]

The bubble. Or lack thereof. I heard from the parents of the palmers' gardener that w/out a practice bubble, he's never picking up a football again.

[NJ29]

I'm rather in line with HairOnFire in that I don't necessarily consider Carson a bum and I don't hate him - but for the betterment of the future of the team, he has to be dealt and I may be in the minority in that I do feel that he'll retire, and the recent report that he's putting his house up for sale is an affirmation of that.

That being said, Carson's putting the management in a tough spot here, because the more clear that he's firmly intent on retiring, doesn't that cause the Bengals to lose trade leverage? If another team wants Palmer, but knows we're in a position where we have to trade him, they're probably more likely to lowball us, cause there's no incentive for them not to.

[bwillycuse]

I'm rather in line with HairOnFire in that I don't necessarily consider Carson a bum and I don't hate him - but for the betterment of the future of the team, he has to be dealt and I may be in the minority in that I do feel that he'll retire, and the recent report that he's putting his house up for sale is an affirmation of that.

That being said, Carson's putting the management in a tough spot here, because the more clear that he's firmly intent on retiring, doesn't that cause the Bengals to lose trade leverage? If another team wants Palmer, but knows we're in a position where we have to trade him, they're probably more likely to lowball us, cause there's no incentive for them not to.

Why would any team want a player that will quit like this.

I think any team has to be suspicious of his desire at the moment.

What happens if the team he goes to doesnt do well? Doesnt throw him a big christmas party with 2 santas.

One thing I do know. His lawn will get trashed in any city he goes to if he plays terribly for his team.

Im gonna have to get a Bengals jersey with my name on it now. I know I wont quit.

[cHaD711Johnson]

At this point he's trying to force his way out through the media. Real estate people making statements etc. I still feel like we should call his bluff. If we have a new CBA amd the draft is here and he's still singing the tune I'd like to try to get Ryan Mallet late in the first round. Maybe we can package our 2nd and another pick to get that, or if we could get a 2nd for Chad to use. I feel like Palmer has been treated well given the grounds of the situation. 1, he's flat out stunk the last few years. He's one of the top paid players in the league. Until this year most of the blame has been deferred to others, and even this year the blame is still being deferred. They're blaming Ocho, TO, Brat and everyone else. This is the first year where he has really shouldered any of the blame. If a few idiots vandalizing his yard make him want to leave than so be it. Retire.

[HairOnFire]

I can see Mike thinking this way. Great, Mike, you won. Now what did you win?

Well, let's be honest about something. Mike Brown didn't choose this battle, and almost certainly wasn't planning for it....so I'm guessing he's not really interested in winning anything beyond the status quo. But while there's little for Mike Brown to win there's plenty for him to lose.

Obviously Mike Brown wants his most important player to honor the terms of a contract extension that Palmer willingly signed because all of the Bengals planning is based upon that contract. Brown will also be reluctant to consider trading Palmer under these circumstances precisely because the trade would be forced upon the Bengals against their will, a precedent no team owner would relish and one that few would even consider.

Point blank, this is a conflict that Carson Palmer put into motion over issues he refuses to discuss in public....so the better question asks what Carson Palmer expects to win from this? Obviously he wants to play elsewhere, but the Bengals aren't going to make that happen unless it makes sense for them to do so. What might make Palmer happy enough to remain a Bengal is anyones guess, but if the final answer is nothing then the Bengals are free to move on without Palmer in any way they see fit, including ignoring his trade demand in exactly the same manner they ignored Chad's attempts to force his way off the team.

[volcom69]

I'm rather in line with HairOnFire in that I don't necessarily consider Carson a bum and I don't hate him - but for the betterment of the future of the team, he has to be dealt and I may be in the minority in that I do feel that he'll retire, and the recent report that he's putting his house up for sale is an affirmation of that.

That being said, Carson's putting the management in a tough spot here, because the more clear that he's firmly intent on retiring, doesn't that cause the Bengals to lose trade leverage? If another team wants Palmer, but knows we're in a position where we have to trade him, they're probably more likely to lowball us, cause there's no incentive for them not to.

Why would any team want a player that will quit like this.

I think any team has to be suspicious of his desire at the moment.

What happens if the team he goes to doesnt do well? Doesnt throw him a big christmas party with 2 santas.

One thing I do know. His lawn will get trashed in any city he goes to if he plays terribly for his team.

Im gonna have to get a Bengals jersey with my name on it now. I know I wont quit.

I agree he is a big time quitter!!! See you later Carson!!

[HairOnFire]

The bubble. Or lack thereof. I heard from the parents of the palmers' gardener that w/out a practice bubble, he's never picking up a football again.

Funny stuff, but here's the thing. Palmer is only threatening to retire if he isn't traded. And that desire to be traded elsewhere is ample proof Palmer wants to play again. Knowing that, the threat of retirement can be effectively ignored.

IMHO Palmer's threat to retire is little more than a bloated threat to sit out a season that is already threatened by the odds of a lockout. In short, a garden variety threat of holdout made notable only by the position Palmer plays.

[HairOnFire]

Until this year most of the blame has been deferred to others, and even this year the blame is still being deferred. They're blaming Ocho, TO, Brat and everyone else. This is the first year where he has really shouldered any of the blame.

This.

I don't have any quotes handy but one of the things Mike Brown stated recently is how last season stuck in everyones craw, including those who bore some of the responsibility. That hints at a certain amount of behind the doors criticism directed at Palmer, amongst others, and dovetails rather neatly with Palmers still vague remarks about how the two sides might be better off divorcing.

[jjakq27]

Until this year most of the blame has been deferred to others, and even this year the blame is still being deferred. They're blaming Ocho, TO, Brat and everyone else. This is the first year where he has really shouldered any of the blame.

This.

I don't have any quotes handy but one of the things Mike Brown stated recently is how last season stuck in everyones craw, including those who bore some of the responsibility. That hints at a certain amount of behind the doors criticism directed at Palmer, amongst others, and dovetails rather neatly with Palmers still vague remarks about how the two sides might be better off divorcing.

I think there were some very low whispers even back in the good days (2004-2006) but I think it started to pick up some even during the 2009 season. And of course the disappointing 2010 season and all of the missed completions and interceptions really got people on his back. And perhaps he was just not used to that but it comes with the business. It sounds almost unbelievable that he is that thin skinned. I think Carson has tempered his emotions so much in his life that he is really unable to react or have a blow up or let the criticism motivate him. And I think that lack of outward emotion has hurt the team too. Maybe it's the whole SoCal thing but getting pissed at someone once in awhile during a game would have been helpful at times.

And honestly I think the team needs to move now (or as soon as possible) and trade him. If he sits out, then he loses so much value when he comes back. Having him hold out through camp or the season will be a big distraction and this team doesn't need that. And lastly I worry about his general health. He has never been a mobile guy but he looks so stiff with a limited range of motion that even if he does play this year I am not convinced he can rebound from what ailed him last season. He will be another year older and that could diminish his value.

[volcom69]

It worries me when i see Hobson write that Mike is still not going to do anything, he will sit back and see what happens. That is a very bad move,they better have some kind of plan intact because Carson is done. Time to move on, they cant wait for 1 person to make up there mind if they wanna play. I never thought i would see the day where Carson quits on his team, i guess he is not the player i thought he was. Oh and that last pass against the Ravens really said it all, and where his head was at the end of the year. See ya later Carson!!

[cincy9275]

is carson going to come out with his own ....WHAT SHOULD I DO .... commercial? lol. really the sad part is we pretty much know what mike is going to do. mike has been pretty clear about that. i also heard yesterday on 97.1 the fan. that marvin was going to meet with carson soon. so we will see what happens.

[Sea Ray]

I can see Mike thinking this way. Great, Mike, you won. Now what did you win?

Well, let's be honest about something. Mike Brown didn't choose this battle, and almost certainly wasn't planning for it....so I'm guessing he's not really interested in winning anything beyond the status quo. But while there's little for Mike Brown to win there's plenty for him to lose.

Did he choose it? Kind of. At the very least Mike Brown brought this on. Unless Carson's complaints go no further than the weather in SW Ohio then Mike Brown is responsible. Very likely Carson is fed up with the losing and the retaining of Marvin Lewis and this gets back to MB. Carson's "silence" began when Marvin was brought back so it's not a stretch to assume that's a big part of the problem here

Obviously Mike Brown wants his most important player to honor the terms of a contract extension that Palmer willingly signed because all of the Bengals planning is based upon that contract. Brown will also be reluctant to consider trading Palmer under these circumstances precisely because the trade would be forced upon the Bengals against their will, a precedent no team owner would relish and one that few would even consider.

Point blank, this is a conflict that Carson Palmer put into motion over issues he refuses to discuss in public....so the better question asks what Carson Palmer expects to win from this? Obviously he wants to play elsewhere, but the Bengals aren't going to make that happen unless it makes sense for them to do so. What might make Palmer happy enough to remain a Bengal is anyones guess, but if the final answer is nothing then the Bengals are free to move on without Palmer in any way they see fit, including ignoring his trade demand in exactly the same manner they ignored Chad's attempts to force his way off the team.

I'd argue Carson has less to lose here than the Bengals. Carson's not going to Canton no matter what happens. He's set for life financially. All he has to lose are 3-5 years of an NFL career. The Bengals would lose a great deal if they let a valuable trading chip wither away.

[COB]

The Bengals would lose a great deal if they let a valuable trading chip wither away.

You say that like it's a bad thing. It's a point of pride with Mike. No one pushes Mike Brown around! /cue 3-13 season/

[HoosierCat]

Like sands through the hourglass, so go the days of our Bengals...

According to my sources, Palmer is unimpressed with new offensive coordinator Jay Gruden. For that matter Carson Palmer tells Channel 9 sports sources he had no issues with Bob Bratkowski, his OC for seven seasons. He contends it is not play-calling but the Bengals' culture that’s turned football into drudgery for him.

Adding to on-field frustrations, Carson's wife is disenchanted with Cincinnati itself. Knuckleheads throwing trash on their property cemented her feelings, I'm told. So much so she returned to California well before the season was over.

And as the owner of another professional sports team in town once said, "If momma ain't happy, nobody's happy."

/>http://www.wcpo.com/dpp/sports/palmer-and-agent-remain-incommunicado-actions-affirm-plan

Also, this from Mort:

His intent is strong: Fresh start or retire

/>http://twitter.com/mortreport/statuses/35412423519240192#

And finally, from Toast:

Just talked to some of Carson's old teamates who say he is retiring for sure if a trade doesn't happen...

/>http://twitter.com/artrellhawkins/status/35417900164583426

[HairOnFire]

Unless Carson's complaints go no further than the weather in SW Ohio then Mike Brown is responsible. Very likely Carson is fed up with the losing and the retaining of Marvin Lewis and this gets back to MB. Carson's "silence" began when Marvin was brought back so it's not a stretch to assume that's a big part of the problem here.

Mike Brown is ultimately responsible for everything Bengal related, from the happiness of his starting QB to the quality of hotdogs served at PBS. But IMHO Palmer's frustration likely stems from his dealings with Lewis and the now departed Bratkowski. Remember, it was the so-called circus atmosphere surrounding the Bengals that was said to be the primary source of Palmer's frustration and I'm constantly reminded how nearly all of this teams clowns play offense. So if Palmer is anything like me he's most upset with the presence of idiots like Chad and Owens, veteran wideouts Bratkowski seemingly couldn't do without or control.

As for Lewis, he gave Bratkowski total freedom to operate the offense in any way he saw fit, regardless of the results, and only after the fact bemoaned the loss of thunder that was stolen from Palmer. In short, Lewis abdicated overall control even as he continued to micromanage things like calling timeouts. The end result IMHO was Palmer playing unevenly, if not poorly, in an undisciplined offensive scheme....leaving Palmer open to criticism from the media, fans, and coaches. And there's the rub because I don't think Palmer's in the mood to be criticized by coaches who failed or by a fanbase that no longer supports Palmer as it once did.

I'd argue Carson has less to lose here than the Bengals. Carson's not going to Canton no matter what happens. He's set for life financially. All he has to lose are 3-5 years of an NFL career.

True, but any NFL player worth a gob of warm spit would fight hard for those years, and that's exactly what Palmer is doing by fighting for a way out of Cincy with the only tool at his disposal. That being, a trade demand wrapped in a silly but attention getting threat to retire. The real question I have is what happens if draft day comes and goes and the Bengals make no attempt to move Palmer? What happens then?

I'm betting under that scenario he comes back, swallows some of his frustration, and then begins campaigning for more control. And if he does...he'll get it.

[HairOnFire]

According to my sources, Palmer is unimpressed with new offensive coordinator Jay Gruden.

Unimpressed? Gruden and Palmer haven't even spoken yet, right?

If Palmer wants his ticket punched out of Cincy, rather than announcing he's retiring, he needs to stop negotiating through the press using real estate agents, landscapers, and local news anchors.

My advice? Stop mush mouthing and do an interview where names are named and specific grievances are aired. If you want out tell the world why and be specific. In short, no more hiding behind the excuse of being worn down by Bengals culture. No more excuses about not knowng what is wrong. Because whining through proxies about the company Christmas party only serves to make you look like the puss your critics claim you are.