Thoughts about the Bengals @ Saints game

[Pidge]

Going on the last couple of yrs naturally: Sloppy, as is to be expected the first game of the PS I guess. However, there's more talent on the field on both sides of the ball and the attitude and effort of all the players looked, um, very professional - which is a novel thing to see from a Bengals team.

[volcom69]

Carson didnt get sacked did he? The bad throws were because of Carson not because of the time allowed. Im not saying they did a steller job, but the o-line did better then i thought. We have to remember this was the first game with these guys all playing as one. So i would expect as the preseason goes on for these guys to gel much better.

First string defense did great i thought, Brees scored on the backup secondary, but i sure did love M. Johnson last night he showed he can play the pass and the run. One thing that scares me thought was not much pressure on the QB last night, i hope they continue to work on that in practice.

[Sea Ray]

I thought they were far, far ahead of where they were a year ago.

Let's look at some specific examples:

1) A year ago we had basically no WRs. TJ and Chad were pouting. Chris Henry wasn't signed yet. All we had were some very green rookies. This year we have Chris Henry ready to go; Chad is healthy and fired up and we have newly signed FA Coles. Don't underestimate the value of Chris Henry. I maintain that Chris Henry as our #3 WR represents one of the biggest weapons we have

2) A year ago we had no center. I'll argue that both Cook and Luigs looked better than GuySuck. No pockets were collapsing from the middle, no NTs were in the backfield. That center position is more important than what happens at RT as to this line's success

3) A year ago we had no pass rush. Odom was down and we didn't have Michael Johnson or Tank Johnson

4) A year ago we had no RBs. Rudi and Chris were "battling" for the job. Cedric looked excellent yesterday sans the fumble as did Scott. That represents another huge upgrade in talent. Looks like they can join the 21st century if they choose and pound with Ced in the first half and hit 'em with speed (Scott) in the 2nd half.

5) A year ago we had no punter. Kevin huber looks better than Larson already

6) A year ago we had no backup QB. Looks like O'Sullivan has the arm strength to get the ball past the line of scrimmage...

Without a doubt the LB corp and the DBs have improved as well from a year ago, not to mention Carson's health.

The only area we're hurting from a year ago is TE.

I think we forget really how dire things were a year ago. They didn't win last night but I saw a lot of positive things. You can't always go by the scoreboard in preseason games. Drew Brees sent his team down the field working largely against our 2nd teamers. Mark Brunell is a very good #2 and he played a lot.

Let's see how we do next week and build on this. The most encouraging thing I saw was an actual pocket for Carson to throw out of...a novel thing, I know

[Sea Ray]

Last night I felt like carson was skittish and nervous and the offense as a whole seemed rushed and a little confused.

I'm amazed at all the heat Carson is taking in cyberspace today. The INT was his fault but the Cedric fumble wasn't. Nor was it his fault that he got pulled while he was driving the team into the red zone.A lot of penalties weren't his fault either. All in all he averaged over 10 yds a pass. Tough crowd...

[jonahdsage]

Last night I felt like carson was skittish and nervous and the offense as a whole seemed rushed and a little confused.

I'm amazed at all the heat Carson is taking in cyberspace today. The INT was his fault but the Cedric fumble wasn't. Nor was it his fault that he got pulled while he was driving the team into the red zone.A lot of penalties weren't his fault either. All in all he averaged over 10 yds a pass. Tough crowd...

please read the rest of my post where I admitted it wasn't actually the case that he played that way but more so my fears about the season.

[HoosierCat]

Carson had good and bad moments last night, and that doesn't surprise me.

Last year, for the few games he played, his wideouts were Ocho Bozo, TJ, and Chatman, his main TE was Reggie Kelly,his RB was Chris Perry, his FB was Dan Coats, his center was Eric Ghiaciuc, LT was Levi Jones and RT was Stacy Andrews.

Yesterday, his wideouts were Ochocinco, Lavernaues Coles and Chris Henry, his main TE was Dan Coats, his RB was Cedric Benson, his FB was Jeremi Johnson, his center was Kyle Cook, LT was Andrew Whitworth and RT Anthony Collins.

Again, the more I think about it, the more I'm amazed that the O wasn't a complete disaster in Nawlins.

[kingwilly]

after watching the game again, here are some thoughts.

It is clear that Fletcher will be cut. He is toast v3. Trent and Pope looked average, but not good to play nickel. White also looked weak in coverage.

They better be ready to scan the wire when cuts start coming. The secondary is weak right now.

Also, the o-line looks much improved. I saw Cook make some nice blocks but also get tossed a couple of times. Whit is very sound. Collins made holes easily. The back-ups also got it going. Roland looked good and got time at LT and RT.

Scott is going to be a serious factor. Leonard must be gang tackled. It is a real luxury when you think this team may have to cut a guy like James Johnson...

Coffman has a way to go. He looks stiff and unsure. Harrington looks like a decent back-up DE...not a TE.

Abdul Hodge can bring the wood. I like our LB situation alot. Consider we may need to cut a guy like Hodge or Maxwell. Considering we used to have Landon and Caleb starting, things have come a ong way.

Chad really looked sharp. Henry and Simpson also looked really good. Simpson had a catch called back by a hold that was excellent.

Huber was ok. couple of punts were weak.

Graham will catch heat for missing a 30yrd chip shot. gotta make those every time.

JT was solid, much better than Fitz.

Also, as for playcalling, I saw tow end-arounds and yelled out loud. Brat, give it up. give it up, it does not work.

[Sea Ray]

I don't think we can judge play calling in the preseason, especially pre season game #1

[kingwilly]

I don't think we can judge play calling in the preseason, especially pre season game #1

Uh, sure we can.

End arounds are the "clever" gadget play brat has used liberally since he arrived. The playbook was said to be overhauled but seeing the old standby in use already tells me brat and creativity are strangers.

[Kazkal]

I don't think we can judge play calling in the preseason, especially pre season game #1

Uh, sure we can.

End arounds are the "clever" gadget play brat has used liberally since he arrived. The playbook was said to be overhauled but seeing the old standby in use already tells me brat and creativity are strangers.

Unless showing vanilla stuff on purpose since it is preseason hehe

[ShulaSteakhouse]

After speeding through it again:

Palmer Jr. was impressive.

Pope may move up.

Simpson is inconsistent. As is Pat Sims. High ceilings and big plays keep them around.

Mike Brown's boy Harrington is certainly fast and gives great effort. Gets pushed around too easily though.

White got screwed on that end zone call, love the way he hits people and plays the run. Has potential to be a decent cover S still. Needs to stay on roster.

Will they keep Benson, Dorsey, Leonard and Scott?

[derekshank]

I'm amazed at all the heat Carson is taking in cyberspace today...

Did anyone see Cutler last night? All of the sudden Palmer looks like he's heading for an MVP season. Very few QB's look great in the first pre-season game. Thus far Palmer's numbers are way better than most of the league.

[Pidge]

Will they keep Benson, Dorsey, Leonard and Scott?

If they don't, Dorsey gets the elbow. I like all of them but the other three - very good RB group. Nothing standout or 'ZOMG dat wuz awesum!11!!' but they'll get the job done. Also good potential in the passing game from them too.

[Sea Ray]

Uh, sure we can.

End arounds are the "clever" gadget play brat has used liberally since he arrived. The playbook was said to be overhauled but seeing the old standby in use already tells me brat and creativity are strangers.

In preseason game #1 they tend to run their bread and butter plays and work not on fooling the opponent but on execution. I doubt they'll run many plays they just installed in early August.

I share your doubts on Brat's playcalling getting it right come Sept. But it's too early to start criticizing it now IMO. I may join you in the chorus after the Denver game.

[kingwilly]

Uh, sure we can.

End arounds are the "clever" gadget play brat has used liberally since he arrived. The playbook was said to be overhauled but seeing the old standby in use already tells me brat and creativity are strangers.

In preseason game #1 they tend to run their bread and butter plays and work not on fooling the opponent but on execution. I doubt they'll run many plays they just installed in early August.

I share your doubts on Brat's playcalling getting it right come Sept. But it's too early to start criticizing it now IMO. I may join you in the chorus after the Denver game.

If the end-around has not been eternally stricken from the playbook, then i have little faith in the ability of Brat to have evolved the playbook or call a game.

I will reserve final judgement until a few weeks into the season.

[COB]

1. If that is what a good oline looks like, I'd hate to see what a bad one looks like.

Yea, must have been tough for you to watch our running backs tear off big chunks of yardage.

I've read your assessment of our line play, now let's read Carson's, from today's Columbus Dispatch:

/>http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20090815/SPT02/308150013/1066/Bengals+need++to+stop+leaks+

The offensive line: It passed its first major test, especially in pass protection. Even the two times the Saints brought a Cover 0 blitz, Carson Palmer picked it up and the line provided just enough time for him to make a play.

I told (right guard) Bobbie (Williams) when I came out I felt like I had a halo around me and a huge 5-yard radius in the pocket every time, Palmer said. There were some really nice holes in the run game against a really stout defensive line. That was definitely encouraging to see the physicalness we came in with and the mindset to run the ball.

Maybe if you hadn't spent the last three months complaining that the Bengals did nothing to upgrade their offensive line, and predicting that the line would suck as bad as last year, you'd be able to recognize improvement when you see it.

Or maybe Bratkowski will dress his guys in Steeler unis, you'd wax poetically about how great they played then.

[gregstephens]

1. If that is what a good oline looks like, I'd hate to see what a bad one looks like.

Yea, must have been tough for you to watch our running backs tear off big chunks of yardage.

I've read your assessment of our line play, now let's read Carson's, from today's Columbus Dispatch:

/>http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20090815/SPT02/308150013/1066/Bengals+need++to+stop+leaks+

The offensive line: It passed its first major test, especially in pass protection. Even the two times the Saints brought a Cover 0 blitz, Carson Palmer picked it up and the line provided just enough time for him to make a play.

“I told (right guard) Bobbie (Williams) when I came out I felt like I had a halo around me and a huge 5-yard radius in the pocket every time,” Palmer said. “There were some really nice holes in the run game against a really stout defensive line. That was definitely encouraging to see the physicalness we came in with and the mindset to run the ball.”

Maybe if you hadn't spent the last three months complaining that the Bengals did nothing to upgrade their offensive line, and predicting that the line would suck as bad as last year, you'd be able to recognize improvement when you see it.

Or maybe Bratkowski will dress his guys in Steeler unis, you'd wax poetically about how great they played then.

I give an A- to A for the pass protection. Couple times CP looked a little rushed, but all in all very good job. The running game needs some work, hopefully that shores up. I agree with CP's accessment, and I think that will go a long way to making him feel comfortable in the pocket and do his stuff again.

[ShulaSteakhouse]

1. If that is what a good oline looks like, I'd hate to see what a bad one looks like.

Yea, must have been tough for you to watch our running backs tear off big chunks of yardage.

I've read your assessment of our line play, now let's read Carson's, from today's Columbus Dispatch:

/>http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20090815/SPT02/308150013/1066/Bengals+need++to+stop+leaks+

The offensive line: It passed its first major test, especially in pass protection. Even the two times the Saints brought a Cover 0 blitz, Carson Palmer picked it up and the line provided just enough time for him to make a play.

“I told (right guard) Bobbie (Williams) when I came out I felt like I had a halo around me and a huge 5-yard radius in the pocket every time,” Palmer said. “There were some really nice holes in the run game against a really stout defensive line. That was definitely encouraging to see the physicalness we came in with and the mindset to run the ball.”

Maybe if you hadn't spent the last three months complaining that the Bengals did nothing to upgrade their offensive line, and predicting that the line would suck as bad as last year, you'd be able to recognize improvement when you see it.

Or maybe Bratkowski will dress his guys in Steeler unis, you'd wax poetically about how great they played then.

Of course Palmer is not going to come out and say they "didn't play that well" or "they suck."

Benson averaged 3.5 ypc. Hardly "tearing off big chunks of yards." He had to pick and dance and earn every bit of it, sans one or two carries.

Not really going to read into anything the back-ups did, just concerned about the #1 guys vs theirs.

[skyline]

1. If that is what a good oline looks like, I'd hate to see what a bad one looks like.

Yea, must have been tough for you to watch our running backs tear off big chunks of yardage.

I've read your assessment of our line play, now let's read Carson's, from today's Columbus Dispatch:

http://news.cincinna...+to+stop+leaks+

The offensive line: It passed its first major test, especially in pass protection. Even the two times the Saints brought a Cover 0 blitz, Carson Palmer picked it up and the line provided just enough time for him to make a play.

"I told (right guard) Bobbie (Williams) when I came out I felt like I had a halo around me and a huge 5-yard radius in the pocket every time," Palmer said. "There were some really nice holes in the run game against a really stout defensive line. That was definitely encouraging to see the physicalness we came in with and the mindset to run the ball."

Maybe if you hadn't spent the last three months complaining that the Bengals did nothing to upgrade their offensive line, and predicting that the line would suck as bad as last year, you'd be able to recognize improvement when you see it.

Or maybe Bratkowski will dress his guys in Steeler unis, you'd wax poetically about how great they played then.

Benson averaged 3.5 ypc. Hardly "tearing off big chunks of yards." He had to pick and dance and earn every bit of it, sans one or two carries.

The stat is fairly meaningless since he didn't have a full game worth of carries. YPC usually goes up when a back breaks a big run, and he may only get one of those a game...not always, but often later in the game when the opposing defense is worn down.

For evidence just look at the defenders of Bengals defenses past who in the face of giving up 5.something YPC always seem to chime in with..."If you just take away that one carry that went for 80 yards, our run defense held up pretty well!"

[Kazkal]

1. If that is what a good oline looks like, I'd hate to see what a bad one looks like.

Yea, must have been tough for you to watch our running backs tear off big chunks of yardage.

I've read your assessment of our line play, now let's read Carson's, from today's Columbus Dispatch:

http://news.cincinna...+to+stop+leaks+

The offensive line: It passed its first major test, especially in pass protection. Even the two times the Saints brought a Cover 0 blitz, Carson Palmer picked it up and the line provided just enough time for him to make a play.

"I told (right guard) Bobbie (Williams) when I came out I felt like I had a halo around me and a huge 5-yard radius in the pocket every time," Palmer said. "There were some really nice holes in the run game against a really stout defensive line. That was definitely encouraging to see the physicalness we came in with and the mindset to run the ball."

Maybe if you hadn't spent the last three months complaining that the Bengals did nothing to upgrade their offensive line, and predicting that the line would suck as bad as last year, you'd be able to recognize improvement when you see it.

Or maybe Bratkowski will dress his guys in Steeler unis, you'd wax poetically about how great they played then.

Benson averaged 3.5 ypc. Hardly "tearing off big chunks of yards." He had to pick and dance and earn every bit of it, sans one or two carries.

The stat is fairly meaningless since he didn't have a full game worth of carries. YPC usually goes up when a back breaks a big run, and he may only get one of those a game...not always, but often later in the game when the opposing defense is worn down.

For evidence just look at the defenders of Bengals defenses past who in the face of giving up 5.something YPC always seem to chime in with..."If you just take away that one carry that went for 80 yards, our run defense held up pretty well!"

Well Quite few bensons runs were on right side for No Gain...So....Sign Andre!

[ShulaSteakhouse]

1. If that is what a good oline looks like, I'd hate to see what a bad one looks like.

Yea, must have been tough for you to watch our running backs tear off big chunks of yardage.

I've read your assessment of our line play, now let's read Carson's, from today's Columbus Dispatch:

http://news.cincinna...+to+stop+leaks+

The offensive line: It passed its first major test, especially in pass protection. Even the two times the Saints brought a Cover 0 blitz, Carson Palmer picked it up and the line provided just enough time for him to make a play.

"I told (right guard) Bobbie (Williams) when I came out I felt like I had a halo around me and a huge 5-yard radius in the pocket every time," Palmer said. "There were some really nice holes in the run game against a really stout defensive line. That was definitely encouraging to see the physicalness we came in with and the mindset to run the ball."

Maybe if you hadn't spent the last three months complaining that the Bengals did nothing to upgrade their offensive line, and predicting that the line would suck as bad as last year, you'd be able to recognize improvement when you see it.

Or maybe Bratkowski will dress his guys in Steeler unis, you'd wax poetically about how great they played then.

Benson averaged 3.5 ypc. Hardly "tearing off big chunks of yards." He had to pick and dance and earn every bit of it, sans one or two carries.

The stat is fairly meaningless since he didn't have a full game worth of carries. YPC usually goes up when a back breaks a big run, and he may only get one of those a game...not always, but often later in the game when the opposing defense is worn down.

For evidence just look at the defenders of Bengals defenses past who in the face of giving up 5.something YPC always seem to chime in with..."If you just take away that one carry that went for 80 yards, our run defense held up pretty well!"

Not really my point though - "huge chunks of yards" = 1 eleven yard carry for Benson. Take that away and you have 7 carries for 17 yards. Not good.

I'm not going to read too much into a 1st preseason game, but don't want to praise them for "that."

[HoosierCat]

1. If that is what a good oline looks like, I'd hate to see what a bad one looks like.

Yea, must have been tough for you to watch our running backs tear off big chunks of yardage.

I've read your assessment of our line play, now let's read Carson's, from today's Columbus Dispatch:

http://news.cincinna...+to+stop+leaks+

The offensive line: It passed its first major test, especially in pass protection. Even the two times the Saints brought a Cover 0 blitz, Carson Palmer picked it up and the line provided just enough time for him to make a play.

"I told (right guard) Bobbie (Williams) when I came out I felt like I had a halo around me and a huge 5-yard radius in the pocket every time," Palmer said. "There were some really nice holes in the run game against a really stout defensive line. That was definitely encouraging to see the physicalness we came in with and the mindset to run the ball."

Maybe if you hadn't spent the last three months complaining that the Bengals did nothing to upgrade their offensive line, and predicting that the line would suck as bad as last year, you'd be able to recognize improvement when you see it.

Or maybe Bratkowski will dress his guys in Steeler unis, you'd wax poetically about how great they played then.

Benson averaged 3.5 ypc. Hardly "tearing off big chunks of yards." He had to pick and dance and earn every bit of it, sans one or two carries.

The stat is fairly meaningless since he didn't have a full game worth of carries. YPC usually goes up when a back breaks a big run, and he may only get one of those a game...not always, but often later in the game when the opposing defense is worn down.

For evidence just look at the defenders of Bengals defenses past who in the face of giving up 5.something YPC always seem to chime in with..."If you just take away that one carry that went for 80 yards, our run defense held up pretty well!"

Not really my point though - "huge chunks of yards" = 1 eleven yard carry for Benson. Take that away and you have 7 carries for 17 yards. Not good.

I'm not going to read too much into a 1st preseason game, but don't want to praise them for "that."

Sheesh, tough crowd. Hell, 17 yards is more than the whole offense generated in its first three possessions in last year's preseason opener against the Packers. And while Benson may not have set the world on fire, he was on pace for a 100+ yard game against a team whose run D ranked a respectable 17th last year. And he was one shoestring grab away from a 96-yard rumble on a play in which the line opened a hole big enough to drive a truck through.

[Kazkal]

http://cincinnati.com/blogs/bengals/

All was not perfect though. Of Cedric Benson’s five runs to the right side, three were for no gain or negative yardage. And during the Bengals’ second drive, an Anthony Collins holding penalty in Saints’ territory blunted some of the momentum.

So Let's get Andre in here and fix that >_<

[mgi]

I wasn't able to watch the game, but Chad keeps saying that his boxing training bolstered his game (he said it made him more TJ-ish).

Did anyone notice anything in the game that could that made a difference, or did it just seem like Chad hype?

[membengal]

The spin move on the out, getting away from the DB, staying in bounds and racking up 45 yards after catch on that play was kinda different...