Biggest Bengal Brain Trust Blunder of 2008

[GregCook]

To get down to 1-11-1 you can't blame it all on players always losing their individual battles. Coaches and management have been out coached and out organized. So for the later here are my biggest blunders, just for the year 2008.

1. Letting Willie go to the Pro Bowl as a Raven

2. Drafting a project in the 2ed round

3. Tagging Andrews and making him the starting RT...by the way is he going to the Pro Bowl?

4. Not trading Chad to the highest bidder

Thats my list, but the worst, I got to go with number 1 letting Willie go.

Anybody else have biggest blunder from the Mike and Marvin brain trust?

[COB]

I've got to go with number four. I don't even hold the Willie thing against them. He would not, or could not, practice or play for the Bengals, it's that simple. When they unloaded him I saw zero evidence that he would emerge as a player again.

The refusal to accept an insane offer for an aging receiver with mental and physical skills in decline is the biggest screw up, and is worthy of this years Lumina Award.

[HoosierCat]

I agree with 1, 2 and 4. But tagging Andrews wasn't a mistake, just something they had no choice about. The mistake that led to that situation was letting Steinbach go to Cleveland.

As for other blunders this season, I'd include letting Deltha O'Neal go. He might not be the world's greatest CB but he's still light years better than any DB we have not named Hall or Joseph.

Also: not upgrading the center position.

[redsbengalsbucks]

I think tagging Andrews was the biggest mistake, he was unproven. Hopefully he will be gone this coming offseason.

Willie is old and I hated seeing him let go, but it was a forced decision because of the money paid to Andrews.

On principle alone I am glad the FO stood up to OCHO and made it clear that a tantrum will not get you out of a contract.

Simpson still has all the potential to become a #1 WR in the NFL.

[HoosierCat]

I think tagging Andrews was the biggest mistake, he was unproven. Hopefully he will be gone this coming offseason.

Willie is old and I hated seeing him let go, but it was a forced decision because of the money paid to Andrews.

There was no financial pressure to release Willie, aside from Mikey's idea of what a backup "ought" to make. Pure and simple, Brown just cheaped out.

[TJJackson]

3 (tagging Andrews) was the biggest mistake

Tagging a player who does not want to be here, particularly on the OLine where group cohesion is important was a disastrous mistake

One of many, true, but the biggest of the 4 listed

Had they not tagged him, he would have walked, which in turn (imho) would have ensured that Willie would have stayed - so really undoing this mistake undoes TWO of the issues listed here

[Walrus]

3 (tagging Andrews) was the biggest mistake

Tagging a player who does not want to be here, particularly on the OLine where group cohesion is important was a disastrous mistake

One of many, true, but the biggest of the 4 listed

Had they not tagged him, he would have walked, which in turn (imho) would have ensured that Willie would have stayed - so really undoing this mistake undoes TWO of the issues listed here

Letting Stacey walk also would've netted us a comp pick in this years draft (for what that would be worth to our pathetic scouting). Instead, we got nothing for releasing Willie.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

I think tagging Andrews was the biggest mistake, he was unproven. Hopefully he will be gone this coming offseason.

Willie is old and I hated seeing him let go, but it was a forced decision because of the money paid to Andrews.

There was no financial pressure to release Willie, aside from Mikey's idea of what a backup "ought" to make. Pure and simple, Brown just cheaped out.

Right, they're 10M under the cap this year, I believe? Not to mention which, with the injuries and suckage to guys like Levi Jones, they had to know that even the backup would probably start 10+ games thanks to the O-line shuffle.

[Kazkal]

3 (tagging Andrews) was the biggest mistake

Tagging a player who does not want to be here, particularly on the OLine where group cohesion is important was a disastrous mistake

One of many, true, but the biggest of the 4 listed

Had they not tagged him, he would have walked, which in turn (imho) would have ensured that Willie would have stayed - so really undoing this mistake undoes TWO of the issues listed here

Letting Stacey walk also would've netted us a comp pick in this years draft (for what that would be worth to our pathetic scouting). Instead, we got nothing for releasing Willie.

Plus when Stacey walks this year I down he'll get a big contract since he had a full season to show he wasn't worth big money that some teams probably would have given him last year.

[GregCook]

We can glimpse the 2009 Biggest Blunders

1. Not auctioning Chad to the highest bidder

2. Franchising Andrews

3. Letting TJ walk

4. Resigning Chris Perry

Are any of those possible? I bet #3.

I also should have added to the 2008 list

Resigning Chris Henry. That might actually be the most toxic of the bunch.

[ShulaSteakhouse]

I think tagging Andrews was the biggest mistake, he was unproven. Hopefully he will be gone this coming offseason.

Willie is old and I hated seeing him let go, but it was a forced decision because of the money paid to Andrews.

There was no financial pressure to release Willie, aside from Mikey's idea of what a backup "ought" to make. Pure and simple, Brown just cheaped out.

Yep, and unless Willie took a leak in Mike Brown's cereal one day, the way they unceremoniously cut him was ridiculous, and can't sit well with other veterans or anyone else looking to come here.

The best o-lineman to play here since Munoz, and he's dumped just before the season starts with not even so much as a "thank you."

Willie had never bad mouthed the organization, and stayed here through thick and thin.

It still makes no sense to me, but it's why they are the Bengals' and are 1-11-1 and why they will have a hard time finding any worthwhile FA difference makers that will want to come here again for the foreseeable future (pending a FO make over which we know won't happen).

Willie wouldn't have made much of a difference this year, but the way it was handled and how it will affect the mindset of others and the ownership's image, could have the same negative impact bringing Henry back did.

I don't think I've seen even this franchise make so many bone headed personnel moves in one off-season.

[BlainThePain]

Not signing Houshmandzadeh to a contract extension before the season started.

[ArmyBengal]

Biggest blunder ?? EASY...

Making the statement in the offseason that the team was aware of the fact they knew they were going to be facing some of the best defenses in the league and were dedicating themselves to developing a dominating running game. How did they do this ?? Letting Willie walk (Veteran Leadership if nothing else), letting Rudi go and naming Chris Perry the starter, and keeping Andrews when EVERYONE knew all he needed to do was play well this year and then go to New York the following year.

How the F*CK is that dedicating themselves to the run game ?? It had failure written all over it and most just didn't want to believe it heading into the season

(I was one of them)...

Deltha, while better than some of the crap we have on the team now, is garbage and I think Mikey made the right call going into the season.

Rudi was declining, but could he have been any worse than what we had ??

Willie backed Mikey into a corner and the move was made. Whoever made the statement about Steinbach leaving was on point...

How they choose to let the top pick in the 2nd round that year walk, while giving the fat contract to Willie, only to let him walk, and then franchising Andrews is beyond me. Some of the worst moves made in regards to an O-line that you expect to be able to come out week after week and face some of the best defenses the league has to offer. Did they some how forget we play 4 games between Pittsburgh and Baltimore (#1 and #2 defenses) alone ??

As for the biggest potential blunder for 2009 ?? Another easy one...

Resigning Guychick to a long term contract while completely ignoring the center position in free agency and the draft... D-O-N-E done....

[chrishcovga]

The 2008 blunders that killed this team are as follows.

1. Failing to land Shaun Rogers in Free Agency. - He has made the Browns better, this deal should've gotten done. - Drafting Pat Sims later would've solidified our rotation for the next 5 years.

2. Signing Antwan Odom. - I know he's been hurt, but he played with too much talent in Tennessee to warrant such a high offer.

3. Not Trading Chad Johnson. - Showing the NFL players, that you're still the " Massa' in charge " doesn't work. The Redskins offered 2 first round picks, and the Cowboys offered similiar picks that they got for Roy Williams. - When Teams offer the Bank, ( i.e. the Saints in '99) .. You Rob Them!!

4. Drafting Jerome Simpson and Caldwell over Devin Thomas and Eddie Royal. Thomas was an easy pick to make, but not drafting a punt returner with slot potential was just stupid. Royal by the way has been a steal as a receiver !!

5. Letting Willie Anderson go. - The $$$ is one thing, but he's a team leader and despite losing his starting job, he's more than worth the money as a backup considering the teams struggles running and pass blocking.

6. Letting Rudi Johnson Go over Chris Perry ! - Johnson had one injury plagued season, and while he may be on the downside of his career, there is NO WAY in HELL YOU TURN THE OFFENSE OVER TO PERRY. He's a bust in every sense of the word, and even worse, he's the constant reminder that WE SHOULD'VE DRAFTED STEPHEN JACKSON!

7. Bringing back Chris Henry. - If Marvin is your coach, and he has a say so about who his players are, Then You don't bring back a player he doesn't want. PERIOD

8. And utltimately what may prove to be the Worse move of 2008....... Not Shelving Carson Palmer and letting him have the surgery. Modern medicine is too advanced for an athlete to pass up on a small procedure and secure his future playing ability.

We Now end a season without Palmer, a Surgery may still be needed which only hinders his health and progress and rehab going into the offseason. " Never put off for tomorrow, what you can achieve today"

.

Players have surgeries to ensure their playing futures.

The NFL Draft is how NFL teams ensure their competitive futures.

Our expectations for a Healthy Palmer and winning season in '09 have not improved from the debacle of the 2008 season.

[kingwilly]

3 (tagging Andrews) was the biggest mistake

Tagging a player who does not want to be here, particularly on the OLine where group cohesion is important was a disastrous mistake

One of many, true, but the biggest of the 4 listed

Had they not tagged him, he would have walked, which in turn (imho) would have ensured that Willie would have stayed - so really undoing this mistake undoes TWO of the issues listed here

Letting Stacey walk also would've netted us a comp pick in this years draft (for what that would be worth to our pathetic scouting). Instead, we got nothing for releasing Willie.

Bin-go.

I think the return of Cheech was the biggest mistake. ML became a joke the minute Cheech walked into that locker room.

[futurebengal08]

The 2008 blunders that killed this team are as follows.

1. Failing to land Shaun Rogers in Free Agency. - He has made the Browns better, this deal should've gotten done. - Drafting Pat Sims later would've solidified our rotation for the next 5 years.

2. Signing Antwan Odom. - I know he's been hurt, but he played with too much talent in Tennessee to warrant such a high offer.

3. Not Trading Chad Johnson. - Showing the NFL players, that you're still the " Massa' in charge " doesn't work. The Redskins offered 2 first round picks, and the Cowboys offered similiar picks that they got for Roy Williams. - When Teams offer the Bank, ( i.e. the Saints in '99) .. You Rob Them!!

4. Drafting Jerome Simpson and Caldwell over Devin Thomas and Eddie Royal. Thomas was an easy pick to make, but not drafting a punt returner with slot potential was just stupid. Royal by the way has been a steal as a receiver !!

5. Letting Willie Anderson go. - The $$$ is one thing, but he's a team leader and despite losing his starting job, he's more than worth the money as a backup considering the teams struggles running and pass blocking.

6. Letting Rudi Johnson Go over Chris Perry ! - Johnson had one injury plagued season, and while he may be on the downside of his career, there is NO WAY in HELL YOU TURN THE OFFENSE OVER TO PERRY. He's a bust in every sense of the word, and even worse, he's the constant reminder that WE SHOULD'VE DRAFTED STEPHEN JACKSON!

7. Bringing back Chris Henry. - If Marvin is your coach, and he has a say so about who his players are, Then You don't bring back a player he doesn't want. PERIOD

8. And utltimately what may prove to be the Worse move of 2008....... Not Shelving Carson Palmer and letting him have the surgery. Modern medicine is too advanced for an athlete to pass up on a small procedure and secure his future playing ability.

We Now end a season without Palmer, a Surgery may still be needed which only hinders his health and progress and rehab going into the offseason. " Never put off for tomorrow, what you can achieve today"

.

Players have surgeries to ensure their playing futures.

The NFL Draft is how NFL teams ensure their competitive futures.

Our expectations for a Healthy Palmer and winning season in '09 have not improved from the debacle of the 2008 season.

Excuse me if i sound rude, I'm really not trying to be...

But weren't most of these reasons considered with the benefit of hindsight? I mean I didn't really jump out of my seat over the drafting of Jerome Simpson, but who would've guessed Royal or Thomas would be this good this fast?

Rudi needed to go, he would've been worse than both of the backs we've had this year. Just because Perry sucked doesn't mean Rudi would've been better.

We would be complaining at this point in the season if Willie was still underperforming. Personally, I thought it was a good move at the time guaging the cap situation.

If we acquired Shaun Rodgers, I doubt that we would've gone with Pat Sims anyway.

Antwan Odom was surrounded by talent in Tenn, but that doesn't mean he wouldn't be a solid starter for us, and I think he still can be.

I agree, however, with your assessment of the resigning of Henry and not trading Chad.

I actually don't know what to think about Palmer, but I think Tommy John surgery is a little more serious than you are letting on - too invasive, much safer and smarter to go with a more traditional rehab...

[BengalszoneBilly]

Thats my list, but the worst, I got to go with number 1 letting Willie go.

As soon as I heard that news, I felt doom upon us.

[chrishcovga]

Excuse me if i sound rude, I'm really not trying to be...

But weren't most of these reasons considered with the benefit of hindsight? I mean I didn't really jump out of my seat over the drafting of Jerome Simpson, but who would've guessed Royal or Thomas would be this good this fast?

Rudi needed to go, he would've been worse than both of the backs we've had this year. Just because Perry sucked doesn't mean Rudi would've been better.

We would be complaining at this point in the season if Willie was still underperforming. Personally, I thought it was a good move at the time guaging the cap situation.

If we acquired Shaun Rodgers, I doubt that we would've gone with Pat Sims anyway.

Antwan Odom was surrounded by talent in Tenn, but that doesn't mean he wouldn't be a solid starter for us, and I think he still can be.

I agree, however, with your assessment of the resigning of Henry and not trading Chad.

I actually don't know what to think about Palmer, but I think Tommy John surgery is a little more serious than you are letting on - too invasive, much safer and smarter to go with a more traditional rehab...

[futurebengal08]

First, there are no excuses! Say what you mean and mean what you say!

2. In '04 the top RB in the draft fell in our laps and we passed on him. Obviously we didn't learn our lesson when not only do we pass on the # 1 ranked wide receiver in the draft, but #'s 1-13 to draft Jerome Simpson. Andre Caldwell actually had a higher ranking coming out of florida over Simpson, but Florida Receivers are like Penn State and Michigan runningbacks.

3. Rudi's a bell cow. Chris Perry is a bust. He did nothing in his previous 4 years to even warrant a roster spot for the '08 season. STOP DRINKING THE KOOL-AID ! What coaching staff, ownership, management team other than the Cincinnati Bengals would trust the running game to an oft injured runningback over a runningback that's run for over 5000 yards the last 5 seasons. Answer this question for me... How does Perry even get a starting job over Kenny Watson when he averaged more than 4 yards a carry and 700 yards in a forced starting role ?? - Perry started because of the money. Mike Brown still thinks Perry is better than Stephen Jackson!!

4. Drafting a defensive tackle would've remained a priority because of the lack of depth and Shaun Rogers conditioning. He's not a 3 down player, that's why we Drafted 2. One that was actually worth starting and One to rotate in from time to time.

5. Tell you what, Get Antwan Odom on the field, and then we'll see if he's worth the 29.5 million.

6. Jake Delhomme had the same injury only more severe and he's had a complete recovery and is playing well. Palmer only has a small tear, If you've ever had a tendon/ ligament injury, you know that most ligament and tendon tears do not heal. You can do research on the drugs used to influence growth in torn tendons and ligaments or simply call Dr. William Craven Orthopaedic Surgeon at Alliance Orthopaedics , 5040 Snapfinger rd, Decatur Ga. He can tell you what drugs work and why other than the ligaments in the ankle and foot, most tendons and ligaments require surgery! ( I know because I actually asked him these questions when I suffered torn ligaments in an ankle injury last year, and he was the doctor that perfomed my rotator cuff surgery in '03.

- Any Questions ??

1. I already said I didn't like the drafting of Jerome Simpson, we agree on that one.

2. No one can deny that Chris Perry was valuable to us in '05. Maybe not as valuable as Geoffy Hobson would tell us, but he was important. That being said, Rudi's done, he will never be good again, even if Emmit Smith's oline dropped from the sky. I'm not 'drinking the kool-aid', I know that Chris Perry can't get it done anymore. Like I said, JUST BECAUSE PERRY SUCKS DOESN'T MEAN RUDI WOULD BE BETTER.

3. You can't deny that signing Shaun Rogers would've changed THE BENGALS draft plans. Remember, Mikey pulls the strings.

4. Yes, Odom won't perform to his salary. I agree.

5. Delhomme has never been the same quarterback since his surgery. Carson's not dumb, and either are his doctors. If he needed a surgery by now, he would've gotten one. Him coming back to practice proves that the best doctors in the nation that looked at him advised him against getting the surgery.

6. I called Dr. Craven. He called you a douche. Ha, I'm kidding, that was uncalled for but kinda funny.

[chrishcovga]

1. I already said I didn't like the drafting of Jerome Simpson, we agree on that one.

2. No one can deny that Chris Perry was valuable to us in '05. Maybe not as valuable as Geoffy Hobson would tell us, but he was important. That being said, Rudi's done, he will never be good again, even if Emmit Smith's oline dropped from the sky. I'm not 'drinking the kool-aid', I know that Chris Perry can't get it done anymore. Like I said, JUST BECAUSE PERRY SUCKS DOESN'T MEAN RUDI WOULD BE BETTER.

3. You can't deny that signing Shaun Rogers would've changed THE BENGALS draft plans. Remember, Mikey pulls the strings.

4. Yes, Odom won't perform to his salary. I agree.

5. Delhomme has never been the same quarterback since his surgery. Carson's not dumb, and either are his doctors. If he needed a surgery by now, he would've gotten one. Him coming back to practice proves that the best doctors in the nation that looked at him advised him against getting the surgery.

6. I called Dr. Craven. He called you a douche. Ha, I'm kidding, that was uncalled for but kinda funny.

Delhomme has 14 td's, 12 int's, 59% completion percentage with a 82.1 rating. All about his average numbers. Delhomme had a complete reconstruction of his throwing elbow.

-Palmers' procedure would be less intrusive and the rehab less significant. - I just don't like the situation and at least Palmer had the good sense to go OUTSIDE the teams doctors and have consultations from other doctors. Either way, I want Palmer 100 %.

Cincinnati had to get 2 defensive tackles. And they'll still need to add another in '09 because we'll finally be rid of underachieving John Thornton.

[futurebengal08]

Delhomme has 14 td's, 12 int's, 59% completion percentage with a 82.1 rating. All about his average numbers. Delhomme had a complete reconstruction of his throwing elbow.

-Palmers' procedure would be less intrusive and the rehab less significant. - I just don't like the situation and at least Palmer had the good sense to go OUTSIDE the teams doctors and have consultations from other doctors. Either way, I want Palmer 100 %.

Cincinnati had to get 2 defensive tackles. And they'll still need to add another in '09 because we'll finally be rid of underachieving John Thornton.

Whether Delhomme has been valuable after his surgery is questionable. What's not questionable is that he took a long time coming back. Carson wouldn't have waited this long if he was going to have the surgery.

[gregstephens]

Not drafting Royal isn't on my list because, let's face it, we would have misused him, or not used him, just like we did Caldwell and Simpson. You can't say Simpson wouldn't have went to Denver and been the breakout receiver Royal is on the verge of becoming. You can't compare the draft issues when the other decisions were made around them.

Otherwise, it's hard to dispute any of the above points made thusly.

[HAPPYJAQ]

Take away P-Dub's 1 or 2 good years with the Bengals and we have not had a smallish receiver productive in Cincy in over 20 years, when the players in the league overall were smaller than today's. The jury is still out on Simpson, but I can remember a time where the Bengals current best receiver was on the verge of getting cut, until San Fran and Dennis Erickson expressed an interest in acquiring him....and that was after his 3rd year in the league. The Bengals have done well at developing WRs and I have faith in that. Simpson has a size/speed ration that is on par with with the prototype of successful WR's we've had here. Another thing to consider is that the Steelers wanted Simpson BAD and it was reported that they were prepared to draft him a few slots later, when they drafted Sweed.

Furthermore, if they didn't draft a top prospect WR last year, then it would have certainly been a high priority this season and would have forced the Bengals to consider drafting another WR high, despite glaring needs at other positions. If Simpson or Caldwell develop into a high-caliber player, than the draft strategy last year was correct.

[GregCook]

Take away P-Dub's 1 or 2 good years with the Bengals and we have not had a smallish receiver productive in Cincy in over 20 years, when the players in the league overall were smaller than today's. The jury is still out on Simpson, but I can remember a time where the Bengals current best receiver was on the verge of getting cut, until San Fran and Dennis Erickson expressed an interest in acquiring him....and that was after his 3rd year in the league. The Bengals have done well at developing WRs and I have faith in that. Simpson has a size/speed ration that is on par with with the prototype of successful WR's we've had here. Another thing to consider is that the Steelers wanted Simpson BAD and it was reported that they were prepared to draft him a few slots later, when they drafted Sweed.

Furthermore, if they didn't draft a top prospect WR last year, then it would have certainly been a high priority this season and would have forced the Bengals to consider drafting another WR high, despite glaring needs at other positions. If Simpson or Caldwell develop into a high-caliber player, than the draft strategy last year was correct.

Yeah there is alot of alchemy in drafting but round 1 and 2 should be where you pick players that contribute immediately and that is where you get your Pro Bowlers too. Chad and TJ both spooked Mike and Marvin to doing a stupid thing, draft a project in round 2. Simpson its clear will take another year or two to become a starter as a third receiver. In the meantime the Bengals were blind to how bad their offensive line had become and to how awful their running game had become. You don't need to wait and see if Simpson becomes a great player to know its a bad pick.

The day they brought back Henry told me they had no confidence in Simpson or Caldwell for 2008. The Bengals have holes so big right now that it keeps them from winning now and into the future. Drafting guys that don't play just doesn't help.

[ArmyBengal]

Delhomme has 14 td's, 12 int's, 59% completion percentage with a 82.1 rating. All about his average numbers. Delhomme had a complete reconstruction of his throwing elbow.

-Palmers' procedure would be less intrusive and the rehab less significant. - I just don't like the situation and at least Palmer had the good sense to go OUTSIDE the teams doctors and have consultations from other doctors. Either way, I want Palmer 100 %.

Cincinnati had to get 2 defensive tackles. And they'll still need to add another in '09 because we'll finally be rid of underachieving John Thornton.

Whether Delhomme has been valuable after his surgery is questionable.

Carolina is sitting at 11-3 and more than likely going to win the NFC south after going 7-9 the year before without Delhomme taking the snaps. How anyone can say his value is questionable baffles me. That being said, the team overall has played better and has contributed to the overall success, but you can't discount the play of Delhomme who most consider the comeback player of the year.

The Bengals inability to address the need to improve the run that THEY said was paramount during the offseason and the poor play of the o-line has sucked the life out of most fans !!!