Fire Marvin

[Bobcat Bengal]

It is funny how fickle fans can be. Let me tell you right now firing coaches doesn't make your team better. TALENT does.

You lost a ton of draft picks that shuld be on the field right now.

Thurman

Pollack

Steinbach

Henry...

I am not a bengals fan so I don't know all of them.

All the Browns fan wanted to fire Romeo last year, but what was that really going to do...make us better? NO it wouldn't have.

IT all starts with drafting and scouting. Who are leading the Browns...the friggin BROWNS....yeah the horrible....dead last in the power ranking (to sart the season) BROWNS to victories?

Guys, that were drafted and scouted well. When you lose guys like you have lost your team will struggle.

Bottom Line...it is about Talent and your defense is missing it's two standouts in Pollack and Thurman, and your offense is missing Steinbach, Henry and a healthy Rudi Johnson.

Firing coaches didn't help the Browns.

Bill Bellicheck

Chris Palmer

Butch Davis

and if it weren't for drafting talented players, we woud be firing Romeo this year too.

The Browns fan is right.

I'm in the minority.....I don't think firing Marvin Lewis is going to change anything.

Can't the guy have some bumps in the road?

That's part of the problem, firing a coach after he stumbles to a rough start........even Bill Cowher had a losing season.

I hope Mike Brown allows him to finish up the season.

[as_v_1]

It is funny how fickle fans can be. Let me tell you right now firing coaches doesn't make your team better. TALENT does.

That may be true but you cant start firing all the players. The coaching staff is held responsible for getting these guys to play, and when they don't thats the fist place the ax falls. Thats not fair and thats not right but its how it works, and maybe just maybe it would be enough of a slap in the face to wake these guys up. I'm not saying I want him fired, but I do think he needs to start feeling the heat.

[damiancasey]

It is funny how fickle fans can be. Let me tell you right now firing coaches doesn't make your team better. TALENT does.

You lost a ton of draft picks that shuld be on the field right now.

Thurman

Pollack

Steinbach

Henry...

I am not a bengals fan so I don't know all of them.

All the Browns fan wanted to fire Romeo last year, but what was that really going to do...make us better? NO it wouldn't have.

IT all starts with drafting and scouting. Who are leading the Browns...the friggin BROWNS....yeah the horrible....dead last in the power ranking (to sart the season) BROWNS to victories?

Guys, that were drafted and scouted well. When you lose guys like you have lost your team will struggle.

Bottom Line...it is about Talent and your defense is missing it's two standouts in Pollack and Thurman, and your offense is missing Steinbach, Henry and a healthy Rudi Johnson.

Firing coaches didn't help the Browns.

Bill Bellicheck

Chris Palmer

Butch Davis

and if it weren't for drafting talented players, we woud be firing Romeo this year too.

The Browns fan is right.

I'm in the minority.....I don't think firing Marvin Lewis is going to change anything.

Can't the guy have some bumps in the road?

That's part of the problem, firing a coach after he stumbles to a rough start........even Bill Cowher had a losing season.

I hope Mike Brown allows him to finish up the season.

Completely agree. The Steelers stuck with Cowher for a very long time.

I hate loosing and days like today are VERY frustrating but we have to be patient. ML has demonstrated that he can get it done.

[ShulaSteakhouse]

It is funny how fickle fans can be. Let me tell you right now firing coaches doesn't make your team better. TALENT does.

You lost a ton of draft picks that shuld be on the field right now.

Thurman

Pollack

Steinbach

Henry...

I am not a bengals fan so I don't know all of them.

All the Browns fan wanted to fire Romeo last year, but what was that really going to do...make us better? NO it wouldn't have.

IT all starts with drafting and scouting. Who are leading the Browns...the friggin BROWNS....yeah the horrible....dead last in the power ranking (to sart the season) BROWNS to victories?

Guys, that were drafted and scouted well. When you lose guys like you have lost your team will struggle.

Bottom Line...it is about Talent and your defense is missing it's two standouts in Pollack and Thurman, and your offense is missing Steinbach, Henry and a healthy Rudi Johnson.

Firing coaches didn't help the Browns.

Bill Bellicheck

Chris Palmer

Butch Davis

and if it weren't for drafting talented players, we woud be firing Romeo this year too.

1. I'm forgetting which Pro Bowls and accomplishments both Pollack and Thurman had before leaving the league, to make them such wonders? Maybe drafting poorly is also part of Marvin's inability to run a team and manage a roster successfully?

2. Lewis has been coaching here for 5 years now, unlike Romeo in Cleveland, and has consistently produced inconsistent, undisciplined, flaky, soft, unmotivated, under-achieving teams. He's even had a top 3 NFL QB at his disposal for 4 years now, another thing thou Romeo has not had

[damiancasey]

It is funny how fickle fans can be. Let me tell you right now firing coaches doesn't make your team better. TALENT does.

You lost a ton of draft picks that shuld be on the field right now.

Thurman

Pollack

Steinbach

Henry...

I am not a bengals fan so I don't know all of them.

All the Browns fan wanted to fire Romeo last year, but what was that really going to do...make us better? NO it wouldn't have.

IT all starts with drafting and scouting. Who are leading the Browns...the friggin BROWNS....yeah the horrible....dead last in the power ranking (to sart the season) BROWNS to victories?

Guys, that were drafted and scouted well. When you lose guys like you have lost your team will struggle.

Bottom Line...it is about Talent and your defense is missing it's two standouts in Pollack and Thurman, and your offense is missing Steinbach, Henry and a healthy Rudi Johnson.

Firing coaches didn't help the Browns.

Bill Bellicheck

Chris Palmer

Butch Davis

and if it weren't for drafting talented players, we woud be firing Romeo this year too.

1. I'm forgetting which Pro Bowls and accomplishments both Pollack and Thurman had before leaving the league, to make them such wonders? Maybe drafting poorly is also part of Marvin's inability to run a team and manage a roster successfully?

2. Lewis has been coaching here for 5 years now, unlike Romeo in Cleveland, and has consistently produced inconsistent, undisciplined, flaky, soft, unmotivated, under-achieving teams. He's even had a top 3 NFL QB at his disposal for 4 years now, another thing thou Romeo has not had

Don't forget that one of those 4 years the QB was recovering from major knee surgery and the other year - this year - half the team was injured.

"Inconsistent, undisciplined, flaky, soft, unmotivated, under-achieving" come on!! today sucked but that's just not true...

[Kazkal]

I'm in the minority.....I don't think firing Marvin Lewis is going to change anything.

Agreed,Changes need to be maid but mainly in the front office so we can bring in a better coaching staff better trainers more scouts and dare i say a GM.

[COB]

Step away from the ledge fellow Bengal fans. We all knew that we'd struggle after losing so many first and second round draft picks to injury and stupidity. Today was hard to watch. Pretty much a low for the season. But who have we lost to? The Seahawks, Patriots, Steelers, and Chiefs all lead their respective divisions. The Browns are the only team we've lost to who doesn't lead their division. They're 4-3.

We need a new DC, but fire Marvin? For who? Jeff Fisher won 5 games at Tennesse in '04, and won 4 games in '05. Tennessee was rewarded for their patience. 8-8 last year, and 5-2 right now. Again, who's our new head coach going to be? Norv Turner will probably be available.

[dave]

There is much about the current state of the franchise that surely isn't Marvin's fault: the small scouting staff, (apparently) poor medical staff, etc. But there's a lot wrong with this team that is clearly Marvin's fault: uninspired, undisciplined play; failing to even put the right number of guys on the field; poor clock mgmt; worthless challenges; continuing to publicly complain about selfishness while not doing anything about it (publicly); and so on.

I don't think Marvin should be fired, but it's a really a moot point. Jesus and his entire choir of cherubim and seraphim could come in as the coaching staff, and they'll continue to be hamstrung by Mike Brown's pathetic ownership. (I'm just echoing what Bengals1 said very well earlier.)

And that's why I'm pretty much done with this franchise until there's a serious change. I've followed this team for 30 years, but I can't handle the stupidity any more.

[gregstephens]

Step away from the ledge fellow Bengal fans. We all knew that we'd struggle after losing so many first and second round draft picks to injury and stupidity. Today was hard to watch. Pretty much a low for the season. But who have we lost to? The Seahawks, Patriots, Steelers, and Chiefs all lead their respective divisions. The Browns are the only team we've lost to who doesn't lead their division. They're 4-3.

We need a new DC, but fire Marvin? For who? Jeff Fisher won 5 games at Tennesse in '04, and won 4 games in '05. Tennessee was rewarded for their patience. 8-8 last year, and 5-2 right now. Again, who's our new head coach going to be? Norv Turner will probably be available.

Hold the phone. I'm not commenting on the whole 'fire Lewis' frenzy, but don't throw Jeff Fisher up in this discussion. The Titans are a terrible 5-2 team and, but for playing cupcakes, would be at our speed. Vince Young is a fraud as an NFL quarterback, just look at his numbers. I like our chances against the Titans.

[Spor_tees]

Step away from the ledge fellow Bengal fans. We all knew that we'd struggle after losing so many first and second round draft picks to injury and stupidity. Today was hard to watch. Pretty much a low for the season. But who have we lost to? The Seahawks, Patriots, Steelers, and Chiefs all lead their respective divisions. The Browns are the only team we've lost to who doesn't lead their division. They're 4-3.

We need a new DC, but fire Marvin? For who? Jeff Fisher won 5 games at Tennesse in '04, and won 4 games in '05. Tennessee was rewarded for their patience. 8-8 last year, and 5-2 right now. Again, who's our new head coach going to be? Norv Turner will probably be available.

Hold the phone. I'm not commenting on the whole 'fire Lewis' frenzy, but don't throw Jeff Fisher up in this discussion. The Titans are a terrible 5-2 team and, but for playing cupcakes, would be at our speed. Vince Young is a fraud as an NFL quarterback, just look at his numbers. I like our chances against the Titans.

Jeff Fisher has won on a consistent basis and has taken a team to the Super Bowl...Marvin has had one winning season and one play-off loss. At no point during Jeff Fisher's tenure has it ever come about that he did not have control of his team. Even during a tumultuous time dealing with the McNair departure, Fisher still came out smelling like a rose. Fisher is twice the coach Marvin is. Marvin's teams are undisciplined, unmotivated, and under-performing year in and year out. How can you have a defense that can not tackle, cover WR's, or even line up correctly each and EVERY week? Marvin is a defensive guru right? Even the Bengal's offense seems to make mistakes that shouldn't be made like ill-timed penalties, poor clock management, and loss of focus. It all comes down to coaching...or the lack there of.

[gregstephens]

Step away from the ledge fellow Bengal fans. We all knew that we'd struggle after losing so many first and second round draft picks to injury and stupidity. Today was hard to watch. Pretty much a low for the season. But who have we lost to? The Seahawks, Patriots, Steelers, and Chiefs all lead their respective divisions. The Browns are the only team we've lost to who doesn't lead their division. They're 4-3.

We need a new DC, but fire Marvin? For who? Jeff Fisher won 5 games at Tennesse in '04, and won 4 games in '05. Tennessee was rewarded for their patience. 8-8 last year, and 5-2 right now. Again, who's our new head coach going to be? Norv Turner will probably be available.

Hold the phone. I'm not commenting on the whole 'fire Lewis' frenzy, but don't throw Jeff Fisher up in this discussion. The Titans are a terrible 5-2 team and, but for playing cupcakes, would be at our speed. Vince Young is a fraud as an NFL quarterback, just look at his numbers. I like our chances against the Titans.

Jeff Fisher has won on a consistent basis and has taken a team to the Super Bowl...Marvin has had one winning season and one play-off loss. At no point during Jeff Fisher's tenure has it ever come about that he did not have control of his team. Even during a tumultuous time dealing with the McNair departure, Fisher still came out smelling like a rose. Fisher is twice the coach Marvin is. Marvin's teams are undisciplined, unmotivated, and under-performing year in and year out. How can you have a defense that can not tackle, cover WR's, or even line up correctly each and EVERY week? Marvin is a defensive guru right? Even the Bengal's offense seems to make mistakes that shouldn't be made like ill-timed penalties, poor clock management, and loss of focus. It all comes down to coaching...or the lack there of.

Won on a consistent basis? He's had four winning seasons out of seventeen, prior to this season, and had four 8-8 seasons. He's had four full losing seasons. He's not Lombardi or Halas. I will agree his teams have never had lack of discipline issues, but for a man named Pac-Man. Notice he didn't sit on Jones--but put it all on the league. His regular season winning record is 105 and 93--twelve over .500--and his post-season is 5-4. This is his 18th season, one Super Bowl, no wins. He's not on the Mount Rushmore of coaches. Sorry. Give Marvin 17 years, he might stumble a Bengals team into the SB.

[COB]

At no point during Jeff Fisher's tenure has it ever come about that he did not have control of his team.

I keep reading in all these posts, "he's lost the team, he's lost control of the team." I can think of only one incident that shows he "lost" something. It was Chad demonstrating how coachable he is on the sideline.

[volcom69]

Ok then whey do they say enough is enough after his 8th season of going 8-8 i think the fans around here deserve more then what he puts out there on sunday. Not one year has this team gone out and played consistant football, or played up to its talent. I for one am getting sick of it all and im tired of mediocore football being played here. If Marvin Lewis is the so called best thing to happen to Cinci then dammit show it cause i sure as hell havnt seen it yet.

[cincy9275]

marvin has lost the respect of this team and, i am not sure that firing a couple of coaches will change what the players think about him. we all know sop don't care about this team all he cares about is the bottom line. it's over back to being the joke of the league. thanks marvin thanks mikey boy, way to waist some of the the best players this team has ever had. carson chad tj rudi. untill sop sells (which will never happen) or dies. this team will keep going down that same street of insanity, doing the same things year after year and expecting something will change. also i guess that makes us just as crasy for thinking this team would get it right.

[Stripes]

Marvin with a healthy roster = 11-5.

Marvin with injury-plagued rosters = 8-8, 2-5

That's all I need to see.

[Pshjr1961]

Ok, it's official, let's get the Fire Marvin Lewis, OC, and DC !

1. No team control

2. Improper coaching decisions.

3. Lack of team discipline

4. Lack of player development.

And a whole bunch of sh*t you ain't ever heard of !!

Who's all for Cleaning house now and preparing for the 2008 NFL DRAFT ???

Trade Chad

TJ,

Justin Smith

Rudi

Willie Anderson

I agree with your points, all are very right. What the hell you gonna get for Willie? Rudi just got the big contract, so did Chad ( OCHO STINKO) needs to go, Why TJ he's the only one of the receivers who has any balls. Justin Smith has no supporting cast, he ran down half of the plays today from the back side, I did not hera Robert gathers name once today , and our DB's all suck, so get rid of the coaches & Chad & let Willie Retire now.

- Time to cut salary and move on into the next decade with something better !!

I'm with you on everything but the trades.

[Pshjr1961]

Okay, let me start real quick by giving you guys my bona fides.

I’m in my 40’s now and I’ve been following the Bengals since the mid-‘70s. I’m no fair weather fan. I live out here on the left coast where you stand out if you wear tiger stripes to work or out shopping. I’m the only Bengal fan I know of where I work and play yet despite the laughter and finger pointing I’ve continued to support this team for more than 3 decades now.

The problem is not just Marvin or the draft or the failure to use FA or the salary cap correctly. A new coach may have temporary success for a few games but ultimately the problems with this franchise lay with the ownership, not just a few players or coaches.

As long as whoever our head coach is has to put up with one of the smallest scouting departments in the NFL. As long he’s hamstrung by an ownership that refuses to pay top dollar for quality free agents or quality assistant and position coaches. As long has his players are subject to inadequate medical and conditioning practices, as long as he’s forced to work without a GM to direct and guide the franchise year in and year out in dealing with the salary cap and personnel decisions vis a vie free agency and the draft, it really doesn’t matter who we trade or who we tap as head coach.

Anybody who works for the Brown family is ultimately doomed to failure because of the way they run their team. And make no mistake about it; it is Mike Brown’s team….period.

Players will come and go; head coaches will come and go. The way the NFL is structured every team has a decent season now and then (See 2005) but for long standing sustained success the franchise itself would have to be completely revamped. Deep down in almost every Bengals fans heart we know it’s true.

So complain about Marvin Lewis all you want. Call for his head on a platter if it makes you feel better or helps get out the frustration of another lost season in a life time of lost seasons. Bark at the play calling or the coordinators all day and night. Lament the free agents we never signed, the trades we never made the poor draft decisions almost each and every April, but unless and until the franchise itself changes and I mean right down the man who owns it, nothing really is ever going to change.

And most of you know it.

Unfortunately you are 100% correct. I am convinced that until Mike Brown turns over control to Katie Blackburn, nothing will change. Even then, our only hope is that she doesn't aspire to be a "football guy." Mike has spent 30 years trying to show everyone he knows best and is part of "the club." In any other line of work the family business would have been bankrupt years ago. He is an utter incompetent.

Perhaps Katie will focus on the business aspects of the game and hire a GM to run football operations. I just cannot believe that until that time we are going to waste the talents of Palmer, Chad, TJ, Levi, et al. It is ashame. Take the scouting department for example...they argue that the Bengals have drafted well of late and have the same information as others heading into the draft...BULL$hit! If that were the case then Pittsburgh, NE, Baltimore, Dallas, etc. would also run a skeleton crew. The fact is that the team has a $250 million dollar budget, but skimps on the finishing touches. Its like buying a freakin' Brooks Brothers suit and wearing your brothers bowling shoes.

Prior to the season my company was trying to purchase season tickets and PSL, but found the rates to be much too high. I'm glad we waited...it is going to be a buyer's market.

[HairOnFire]

Jeff Fisher has won on a consistent basis and has taken a team to the Super Bowl...Marvin has had one winning season and one play-off loss. At no point during Jeff Fisher's tenure has it ever come about that he did not have control of his team. Even during a tumultuous time dealing with the McNair departure, Fisher still came out smelling like a rose. Fisher is twice the coach Marvin is.

I have a ton of respect for Jeff Fisher and think he's a perfect example of why Lewis should keep his job. Fisher's teams went 8-8 three season or four in a row...broke through and became a top team...then quickly stumbled the moment they lost a few key players, some due to injury, some due to the salary cap, and some due to suspension. But his team stuck with him because he had already proven he could succeed where few others could, and as a result allowed him to stay and oversee the rebuilding that was needed.

Just saying....

[HairOnFire]

Won on a consistent basis? He's had four winning seasons out of seventeen, prior to this season, and had four 8-8 seasons. He's had four full losing seasons. He's not Lombardi or Halas. I will agree his teams have never had lack of discipline issues, but for a man named Pac-Man. Notice he didn't sit on Jones--but put it all on the league. His regular season winning record is 105 and 93--twelve over .500--and his post-season is 5-4. This is his 18th season, one Super Bowl, no wins. He's not on the Mount Rushmore of coaches. Sorry. Give Marvin 17 years, he might stumble a Bengals team into the SB.

That's just the point. Fisher is a pretty good head coach, but he's not going to produce on a consistent basis due to his circumstances....which aren't much different from those in Cincinnati, or half of the NFL for that matter.

I guess you can demand someone who truly ranks amongst "the Mount Rushmore of coaches" but how likely is it that such a person agrees to coach in Cincy or has that type of success once he comes?

[Jet23]

Okay, let me start real quick by giving you guys my bona fides.

I’m in my 40’s now and I’ve been following the Bengals since the mid-‘70s. I’m no fair weather fan. I live out here on the left coast where you stand out if you wear tiger stripes to work or out shopping. I’m the only Bengal fan I know of where I work and play yet despite the laughter and finger pointing I’ve continued to support this team for more than 3 decades now.

The problem is not just Marvin or the draft or the failure to use FA or the salary cap correctly. A new coach may have temporary success for a few games but ultimately the problems with this franchise lay with the ownership, not just a few players or coaches.

As long as whoever our head coach is has to put up with one of the smallest scouting departments in the NFL. As long he’s hamstrung by an ownership that refuses to pay top dollar for quality free agents or quality assistant and position coaches. As long has his players are subject to inadequate medical and conditioning practices, as long as he’s forced to work without a GM to direct and guide the franchise year in and year out in dealing with the salary cap and personnel decisions vis a vie free agency and the draft, it really doesn’t matter who we trade or who we tap as head coach.

Anybody who works for the Brown family is ultimately doomed to failure because of the way they run their team. And make no mistake about it; it is Mike Brown’s team….period.

Players will come and go; head coaches will come and go. The way the NFL is structured every team has a decent season now and then (See 2005) but for long standing sustained success the franchise itself would have to be completely revamped. Deep down in almost every Bengals fans heart we know it’s true.

So complain about Marvin Lewis all you want. Call for his head on a platter if it makes you feel better or helps get out the frustration of another lost season in a life time of lost seasons. Bark at the play calling or the coordinators all day and night. Lament the free agents we never signed, the trades we never made the poor draft decisions almost each and every April, but unless and until the franchise itself changes and I mean right down the man who owns it, nothing really is ever going to change.

And most of you know it.

VERY well said! A common fallacy is that Mike Brown is incompetent. He would rather you believe that than the truth, which is he is greedy!

[oldschooler]

Okay, let me start real quick by giving you guys my bona fides.

I’m in my 40’s now and I’ve been following the Bengals since the mid-‘70s. I’m no fair weather fan. I live out here on the left coast where you stand out if you wear tiger stripes to work or out shopping. I’m the only Bengal fan I know of where I work and play yet despite the laughter and finger pointing I’ve continued to support this team for more than 3 decades now.

The problem is not just Marvin or the draft or the failure to use FA or the salary cap correctly. A new coach may have temporary success for a few games but ultimately the problems with this franchise lay with the ownership, not just a few players or coaches.

As long as whoever our head coach is has to put up with one of the smallest scouting departments in the NFL. As long he’s hamstrung by an ownership that refuses to pay top dollar for quality free agents or quality assistant and position coaches. As long has his players are subject to inadequate medical and conditioning practices, as long as he’s forced to work without a GM to direct and guide the franchise year in and year out in dealing with the salary cap and personnel decisions vis a vie free agency and the draft, it really doesn’t matter who we trade or who we tap as head coach.

Anybody who works for the Brown family is ultimately doomed to failure because of the way they run their team. And make no mistake about it; it is Mike Brown’s team….period.

Players will come and go; head coaches will come and go. The way the NFL is structured every team has a decent season now and then (See 2005) but for long standing sustained success the franchise itself would have to be completely revamped. Deep down in almost every Bengals fans heart we know it’s true.

So complain about Marvin Lewis all you want. Call for his head on a platter if it makes you feel better or helps get out the frustration of another lost season in a life time of lost seasons. Bark at the play calling or the coordinators all day and night. Lament the free agents we never signed, the trades we never made the poor draft decisions almost each and every April, but unless and until the franchise itself changes and I mean right down the man who owns it, nothing really is ever going to change.

And most of you know it.

Oh good Lord.

Explain the Colts then ? They sucked as bad as the Bengals not so long ago.

Now they are an elite team. And they did it with the same owner.

[Jet23]

[oldschooler]

That would be wrong. I believe you are trying to compare Mike Brown to ROBERT Irsay, which I can see. Robert died in 1997. Control of the Colts was actually turned over to his son Jim in 1996. JIM Irsay is about as far away from Mike Brown as a man can be. I believe you just proved the man's point for him.

Ummmm, Peyton Manning was drafted with the #1 overall pick in 1998.

That means they had the worst record in football in 1997.

The Colts finished 3-13 in 1998. So they sucked ass his first two years.

And it took them almost 10 years to reach and win a Super Bowl after

having some of the top picks in the draft.

The Bengals had the 4th highest payroll in the NFL last season.

It`s not Mike Brown`s fault that players they were counting

on to rebuild the Defense, or that they paid to anchor the

O-line, or RB`s and WR`s have been injured or suspended.

[Jet23]

That would be wrong. I believe you are trying to compare Mike Brown to ROBERT Irsay, which I can see. Robert died in 1997. Control of the Colts was actually turned over to his son Jim in 1996. JIM Irsay is about as far away from Mike Brown as a man can be. I believe you just proved the man's point for him.

Ummmm, Peyton Manning was drafted with the #1 overall pick in 1998.

That means they had the worst record in football in 1997.

The Colts finished 3-13 in 1998. So they sucked ass his first two years.

And it took them almost 10 years to reach and win a Super Bowl after

having some of the top picks in the draft.

The Bengals had the 4th highest payroll in the NFL last season.

It`s not Mike Brown`s fault that players they were counting

on to rebuild the Defense, or that they paid to anchor the

O-line, or RB`s and WR`s have been injured or suspended.

I guess you have never heard Jim Irsay speak. He is all about winning and he has created that atmosphere throughout his Organization. He also took his father's wreckage and created a winning team. Do you think Katie could do that for us? I am not sure the word 'win' has ever crossed SOP's lips. His big word is 'competitive'. His great big giant goal is to be 'competitive', thereby putting butts in the seats.

What is SOP's fault is he is too cheap to pay people to evaluate talent, which includes a General Manager. He may have the 4th highest payroll in football, but guess what? He's paying the wrong people! Why? Because, he doen't know any better. Why? Because he doesn't have enough people around him that are not named Brown. When you swing and miss on SOOOOOOO many draft picks, there aren't that many people that warrant the high dollar.

[oldschooler]

That would be wrong. I believe you are trying to compare Mike Brown to ROBERT Irsay, which I can see. Robert died in 1997. Control of the Colts was actually turned over to his son Jim in 1996. JIM Irsay is about as far away from Mike Brown as a man can be. I believe you just proved the man's point for him.

Ummmm, Peyton Manning was drafted with the #1 overall pick in 1998.

That means they had the worst record in football in 1997.

The Colts finished 3-13 in 1998. So they sucked ass his first two years.

And it took them almost 10 years to reach and win a Super Bowl after

having some of the top picks in the draft.

The Bengals had the 4th highest payroll in the NFL last season.

It`s not Mike Brown`s fault that players they were counting

on to rebuild the Defense, or that they paid to anchor the

O-line, or RB`s and WR`s have been injured or suspended.

I guess you have never heard Jim Irsay speak. He is all about winning and he has created that atmosphere throughout his Organization. He also took his father's wreckage and created a winning team. Do you think Katie could do that for us? I am not sure the word 'win' has ever crossed SOP's lips. His big word is 'competitive'. His great big giant goal is to be 'competitive', thereby putting butts in the seats.

What is SOP's fault is he is too cheap to pay people to evaluate talent, which includes a General Manager. He may have the 4th highest payroll in football, but guess what? He's paying the wrong people! Why? Because, he doen't know any better. Why? Because he doesn't have enough people around him that are not named Brown. When you swing and miss on SOOOOOOO many draft picks, there aren't that many people that warrant the high dollar.

I`m so sick of the SoP s**t. Give it a rest.

You people act like scouts and a GM are going

to heal the wounded. What draft picks have

they swung and missed on recently ? Let`s let

go of the 90`s and talk about now. Sure there

have been a few, but you act like every other

team is hitting homers with all their picks.