Bengals offensive line

[Stripes]

https://www.olinestats.com/

I've discovered this site today, and it is full of some really interesting offensive line goodies. I cannot verify the process or the statistics as legitimate, but I tend to doubt anyone does all this work without there being some kind of basis for it. So I give the benefit of the doubt there.

Through 12 weeks of 2021, the Bengals offensive line as a unit ranks:

8th in pressure rate allowed - 21.6%
14th (tie) in sacks allowed - 14
32nd in tackles for loss allowed - 21
8th in penalties - 18
24th (tie) in yards per carry before contact - 2.2

Here are some rankings for individual players, per their respective positions (generalized as tackles, guards, and centers):

Riley Reiff

30th in pressure rate allowed - 5.03%
Sacks allowed - 3 (about average)
Tackles for loss allowed - 3 (slightly worse than average)
Penalties - 2 (better than average)

Jonah Williams

38th in pressure rate allowed - 5.39%
Sacks allowed - 5 (slightly worse than average)
Tackles for loss allowed - 5.5 (league worst)
Penalties - 2 (better than average)

Quinton Spain

12th in pressure rate allowed - 2.95%
Sacks allowed - 3 (slightly worse than average)
Tackles for loss allowed - 1.5 (slightly better than average)
Penalties - 3 (average)

Jackson Carman

39th in pressure rate allowed - 5.15%
Sacks allowed - 0 (optimal)
Tackles for loss allowed - 2.5 (slightly worse than average)
Penalties - 3 (average)

Trey Hopkins

12th in pressure rate allowed - 2.75%
Sacks allowed - 3 (worse than average)
Tackles for loss allowed - 6.5 (league worst)
Penalties - 3 (average)

They don't appear to have data for Sua-Filo or Adeniji yet. Obviously some of this is bad, but it does reflect the entire season. I think it is clear that we have seen the line improving, and the same site currently ranks the Bengals offensive line 15th best in the league (https://www.olinestats.com/articles/week-13-offensive-line-rankings). This at least gives an interesting glimpse into certain trends. The standout is definitely the rate at which the line has allowed tackles for loss in the running game. They lead the league in that category, and each of the five featured have struggled in that arena. Obviously Adeniji is a critical new piece, and his numbers could be very different in a limited sample. However bad its been, the trajectory is clearly positive right now.

[AMPHAR]

These advance stat services like PFF are worlds better than what fans had prior which was nothing or somebody basing an evaluation off the TV feed which can be very misleading as you don't get depth etc.

I do think they make a mistake of trying to rank units or players 1-32.   In reality if you got all the league's line coaches and a handful of college line coaches in the room.

The majority could probably agree on elite unit play and the elite players.   They could probably determine bad unit play and bottom tier players.    There's no chance in hell you'd have any agreement in a ranking 1-32.  

There's probably a few elite units.  Some horrible and then a mass population of all others and it depends upon the individual preference on how they would rank them.

In terms of the Bengals they are top half yards.  Higher in points scored and rushing yards so it makes sense that the line is at least considered average to good as I doubt those numbers are possible with bad o-line play.

Reference the "zone blocking" tweet posted on this board.  There's no way any outsider is accurately grading every zone run without being involved in system installment.   There simply are not black and white assignments very often that's the weakness of the advance stat services.

 

[Wraith]

I think we all said that we would be happy with a mediocre offensive line and through 12 weeks that is what we have seen...the thing is, they appear to be improving week after week, will be interesting to see how they rank in 6 more weeks....I think top ten is a possibility.

[COB]

Riley Reiff turned 33 today.  Could he play tackle at his current level (about league average) another 3 years?  I think he can, if they can get him for 3 years for league average tackle salary, they should do it.  

[HoosierCat]

25 minutes ago, Wraith said:

I think we all said that we would be happy with a mediocre offensive line and through 12 weeks that is what we have seen...the thing is, they appear to be improving week after week, will be interesting to see how they rank in 6 more weeks....I think top ten is a possibility.

This. An average oline would have been a minor miracle considering what we’ve had for the last several years, basically ever since they thought they could get away with not paying Whit and KZ. If they even sniff the top 10 Pollack should be canonized.

[HoosierCat]

17 minutes ago, COB said:

Riley Reiff turned 33 today.  Could he play tackle at his current level (about league average) another 3 years?  I think he can, if they can get him for 3 years for league average tackle salary, they should do it.  

I like what I’ve seen from Prince and even Carmen might be a candidate. And there’s Smith over on IR. BUT Riley has played well enough that I don’t blink if they bring him back. A deal like this years would be ideal but I’m not against something for 2-3 at a reasonable price and low guaranteed money so he won’t kill the cap if he breaks down.

[AMPHAR]

I thought Carman eventually would be RT since they drafted him based on some of the comments/evals.  
 

We’ll see if that materializes.  Reiff is a guy you have to get back for at least another year.   I’d hate to go unproven at a edge spot.  Spain is another to get back. 
 

I’d like to see if Pollack could fix the Center spot with 3-5 round pick.   He’s got Hill, but maybe another and have a competition. 
 

[ArmyBengal]

Agree that Spain should be brought back in 2022. However, with them toying around with Carmen at the OG spot, I’ve often wondered if he would do better at the LG spot rather than the RG spot due to him playing LT at Clemson?

Maybe he is destined for RT, but it wouldn’t appear he’s there yet either.

[TJJackson]

I still hope Carman or Smith (or both) work their way into starting spots. 

I've seen signs that maybe Carman doesnt have enough want-to in him.  I hope and pray I am wrong because we need - even with an improved line this year - more good young OLs here.

Very surprised at the sudden ascendance of Adeniji, particularly since as best I remember he was part of the line at the moment "The Knee" happened.  

I am very surprised Prince got the nod over The Big Johnson (sometimes also known as Fred) when the starting OLine was pulled when the Pittsburgh game was well in hand.  Id like to see more Fred

I still want an OL in rounds 1 or 2 in the next draft, but this year, not for both picks.  Im thinking Center at this point, but with the upcoming uncertainty at ORT, I'd be quite happy with an ORT as well 

[Wraith]

I think resigning Spain has to be a priority in the off-season, priority 1b after Bates.  Olines need consistency and Spain has played his ass off this year and should be rewarded for it.

[membengal]

Tj - Fred is clearly on the outs with the staff - he’s well behind Prince. And d’ante smith when smith is healthy.

[AMPHAR]

9 hours ago, ArmyBengal said:

Agree that Spain should be brought back in 2022. However, with them toying around with Carmen at the OG spot, I’ve often wondered if he would do better at the LG spot rather than the RG spot due to him playing LT at Clemson?

Maybe he is destined for RT, but it wouldn’t appear he’s there yet either.

IMO, just from what I saw from Carman he was impressive in terms of potential.  Very powerful run blocker and nasty finishing blocks.   Not perfect and not All-Pro level.   I think puts him on the Right side but who knows that is kinda old thinking running to the right majority. 

I initially thought his removal from the O-line was injury related but its encouraging that Adeniji comes in and looks better than a player that was showing promise, IMO.

The whole process gains credibility because we have not seen the blow ups we have seen from Price, Bodine, Jordan, Redmond and whoever else from these young guys.

The only one that has seen action and struggled has been Hill with penalties.

I do remember Hobson throwing out Adeniji on the left side guard at one point but then he got hurt. 

[AMPHAR]

I also saw on another board Michael Jordan is back to starting, and  we have alarms go off whenever Hart resurfaces.  I think Price is starting. 

But these things add credibility to Pollack and the young lineman.  They aren't on the roster just because of being draft picks.  They actually beat out other players that are still finding jobs in the NFL.

But to get back to the weakness of attempting to rank position groups 1-32.  By default some group has to be 32.  The evaluation should be done based on standards.    Its quite possible you don't have any elite Offensive lines or maybe 1 or 2 and the rest are poor or average.   Who knows?

This line and the chemistry with Mixon seems like it can do enough damage the second half to earn a playoff spot.  We'll see.   So what part do you call "Elite"?  I don't know or care.  Get the yards going, move the chains and get points on the board.

[ArmyBengal]

I just want them to continue to improve the o-line roster group. 
If they feel that's best done in the early rounds or they can target a player later, that's fine.  This is where I trust Pollack's ability.

I think, as we saw with the JaMarr Chase pick, there's more than one way to help Burrow out.
Does this mean we draft another WR?  HELL NO, but I simply don't think we can say anything with the draft is a lock at this point.

I'm still beating the LB drum.  LOUDLY
If I'm betting, I'll go CB.

[TJJackson]

I'll be happy with ORT, OC, cover OLB, or CB (I'd say Waynes is done, but he never really got started, so.....)

those 4 in first four round, but one of the OLs in r1 or r2

[Wraith]

I have man crushes on Cincinnati CB "Sauce Gardiner and Iowa IOL Tyler Linderbaum but it is likely that they may be long gone by the time the Bengals pick.  Still Roger McCreary (Auburn CB) or NC State G Ikem Ekwonu would be other great options.

[ArmyBengal]

I cannot ever seem to stop doing mock drafts at TDN.  Only doing like 2-3 rounds at this point.
However, the last one netted me Iowa Center Tyler Linderbaum in the first and Penn State LB Brandon Smith in the second.

Yes please...

[ArmyBengal]

Thinking about Brandon Smith...
Watching the Cowboys many games this year, you can't help but notice Micah Parsons (10 sacks), Smith's running mate last year at Penn State.
Hell, if a rookie linebacker would be half as good at this point in the season, many would be very happy.
Our LB's to this point have a combined 1 sack.

This is part of my point in how else the team can help Burrow.  Adding a LB capable of actually getting the QB on the ground, would be huge.
Get off the field and give the offense more opportunities to do what they do best.

Yes, o-line needs to be addressed at some point, but still not sold that it's the "ONLY" way to go about things early.

[COB]

Micah Parsons is very very good.  We can wish for a LB like him, but they are rare.  
 

We could have grabbed him last year but we wouldn’t have Chase then.  I haven’t looked at this year’s LB class (I basically watch the bucks and Michigan college football).  
 

[TJJackson]

GIMME A LINEMAN !!!!!!

(that was totally unexpected, right?  amiright?)

[COB]

Devin Bush, who I think the Bengals were thinking about taking in 2019 before Pittsburgh jumped one spot ahead of us with a trade and took him, looks like a bust.  He’s horrible.  We took Jonah Williams at 11.
 

The Steelers traded 20th pick for the 10th pick, and gave Denver, along with that 20th pick (Noah Fant), their second round pick in 2020, and their third round pick in 2021.  
 

Also, along with those picks gone, they also traded their first and 5th round picks in 2020, and 2021’s 6th,  for Minkah.  
 

The Steelers front office also keeps giving Ben more years when they should have bailed on him when he hurt his elbow two years ago.  
 

If anyone in the media ever bothers to write about the Steelers front office performance as of late, it won’t be pretty.  And I’m so glad they deprived us of any shot at Devin Bush.  He’s headed for the bench, and possibly the street.
 

[HoosierCat]

I scrolled through a few Steelers forums after the game, and for the most part they sound like Bengals fans about three years ago, all the way down to one referring to ownership as “mike brown rooney.” They all know Ben is done and they all feel about Tomlin the way lots of Bengals fans felt about Marvin: they respect all he accomplished but it’s time to move on. Their biggest fear is that the team somehow manages to squeeze out another couple W’s, finishing with 7-8 wins and allowing management to pull the old “We’re almost there, stay the course” routine. Bottom line, it’s really really depressing in Steelers country these days.

[ArmyBengal]

Oh I would have never suggested they take Parsons over Chase at that point, but Parsons is amazing to watch.

I also have no interest in them taking Brandon Smith before the 2nd round, but there are other LB's should they look that way in the first.
It's simply too early to have even a small clue how that might shake out.
However, if it did shake out with Linderbaum and then Smith, I can tell you now I would be a happy camper, having watched both of them play.
Linderbaum will be playing in the Big 10 Championship against a good Michigan front 7 and I will be watching for sure.

Steelers living through the dreaded "Dead Cat Bounce" ??  Yes, I will sleep with a smile on my face just thinking about that tonight.
Thanks Hoosier !!

[AMPHAR]

Unless they make a commitment to blitzing more often I don’t have much interest in a hybrid DE/LB. 

it seems they like to rush 4 and play coverage.

I would be interested in a LB/S hybrid to strengthen the depth there.  

[AMPHAR]

Steeler fans are spoiled.   They got to live the dream at little longer than Bengal fans after the 2015 playoff meltdown.

It probably won’t take them as long to reboot either.