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Offensive Line Draft Talk Thread

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so, let's talk about Spain

I'll let Sheeran do most of the talking, as follows

https://www.cincyjungle.com/2021/1/31/22251516/bengals-2020-player-review-quinton-spain

I liked Spain for what he gave us, and I was perhaps a it too exhuberant over how well he played in a W over a playoff team with little to no practice, as well as him manning 3 different positions for us over the course of the year

IMO, he is optimally our "swing" OG  - and maybe emergency ORT as well - in 2021, which means I do want him signed but with the expectations clear on both his side and ours, with a salary and signing bonus to match those expectations. 

which means I expect him to sign for no more than 2 mil per season salary and no more than a 1 mil signing bonus on the high end.  Given his age (29 or 30) I'd expect the contract to be for 2 or 3 years, nothing more

If I am negotiating with the above-stated expectations, I'd be targeting vet min for 2 years with a 500k signing bonus plus some performance related (low numbers in pressures and penalties, etc) incentives

I really dont think he'd be brought in with starter expectations by any team

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1 hour ago, TJJackson said:I'd be targeting vet min for 2 years with a 500k signing bonus plus some performance related (low numbers in pressures and penalties, etc) incentives
1 hour ago, TJJackson said:

...I'd be targeting vet min for 2 years with a 500k signing bonus plus some performance related (low numbers in pressures and penalties, etc) incentives...

Mike Brown thought of the day - “How did TJ find out what I plan to have carved into my tombstone?”

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*shrug*

well, that seems about right for a slightly better than average backup, at least to me

The Titans game was glorious, but after that, aside from versatility, not so much

that aside, I am less worried about what is carved on the gravestone-to-be and more about how many guests and what food to serve at the Naa Naa Naa Hey Hey Hey Goodbye party to be thrown when said gravestone gets used.  Also, what is to become of the "MikeBrownSucks.com" website and their world famous urinal cakes at that point?

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I don't think any of the Bengals current guards should be given any type of contract that would mark them as a starter. 

Spain is a nice player for competition and depth.   Certainly wouldn't give him a repeat of the Bills contract.  That pretty much marks him as the starter going into TC

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Classic Hobson spin below on why they don't pay G's.  He's de-valuing a position group, this is not modern football thinking.  That is the thinking of someone who's still stuck in the pre-FA era.  When you have to step-up and pay a G, you pay him.  A good personnel GM plans this out.  You don't worry about "positional" value, you worry about the value of talent.

Quote

And, yes, they need to get better on the offensive line to do that. They're not averse to paying guards, they just don't want to make them the highest paid guards in the league. That's fair, given what you have to pay people on the edge. Kevin Zeitler is on his second team since he left the Bengals when Cleveland made him the NFL's highest-paid guard. A solid player. But when you need edge rushers, defensive tackles, cornerbacks?

 

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DEs, DTs and CBs are just wasted money when your stud qb gets his leg ripped off.

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I’m in agreement you don’t need to pay guards $14m a year. 
 

You just can’t stumble through the woods for 4 years trying to pay nothing for the position.

 

When Zeitler left they tried to fill it with Hopkins and Andre Smith. 

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Let’s also not forget the point that Hobs studiously avoids here. They didn’t get to their current predicament just because they didn’t want to pay big bucks to interior OL because tackles cost too much. They didn’t want to pay the tackle, one Andrew Whitworth, either!

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Sounds like Hobs talks to Tobin.  Remember Tobin’s explanation?

 Starting tackles don’t grow on trees.  They’re just not out there to sign.

That attitude is a huge part of the problem.  Amazingly, other teams somehow field good o-lines in spite of the fact you can’t drive down to Walmart and pick linemen up off the shelf.

It takes work.  It takes money, invested in scouts , coaching, and most of all it a GM who can assess all the variables, weigh the risks, and then when it matters, take decisive action.  
 

So, let’s break it down. 
 

Work - Tobin clearly said “I can’t do it, it’s too hard.”

Money - We are near the bottom of the league on money spent on scouting.

GM - Are you fucking kidding?  Planning on a big FA move?  Better run it past Mike.  Try to get on his busy schedule, he answers every fan letter himself circa 1953, and that shit takes time.  Also, dude’s way old.  

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That wasn't Tobin that said that. That was one of the in-laws, I believe, about tackles not growing on trees. 

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Yeah that was Troy. But I think COB’s point still stands. The Bengals’ first instinct always seems to be, well, we can’t do that.

And...I sort of get this because I’ve experienced it. Multiple times in my career, I’ve found myself in a job that’s being stripped of resources, yet the output is not expected to change. In fact, it’s expected to grow! “Do more with less!” and all that kind of crap. In that situation your reaction to any new task or idea getting dropped on your desk is to start listing the reasons you can’t do it. It’s basically a trauma reaction.

I think that kind of trauma reaction with the team is the poison fruit of decades of focusing on the finances first. Every time they are faced with spending money, the laundry list of reasons they can’t (which we all know because we’ve heard them a million times) gets rolled out. Now, this doesn’t mean that eventually they don’t spend that money, but this is how you hesitate and lose Housh or Whitworth and then spend even more money and draft picks than you would have on them for multiple years trying to fill the hole.

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The Bengals spend enough money to produce a championship team.   The manner in which they spend that money hasn't produced a playoff game winner in a looooooooong time.

The NFL is designed to be cyclical.   The Bengals don't feast when they are good and spend an extraordinary time starving when their bad.

There's a 1,000 way to rehash this reality.   Anyway it is tough to find NFL tackles.  So next time don't let an All-Pro waltz into free agency.

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More Sewell and Slater stuff---Brandon Thorn always worth it when it comes to reading about line prospects:

 

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Very good write ups on both players.   Sewell's youth is very attractive long term for a team.  

Cliff notes:  Thorn confirms alot of the elite top 10 qualities of Sewell.    Thinks Slater is first round but more top 25ish.

Glad we got Pollack's eyes on this draft. 

 

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22 hours ago, HoosierCat said:

DEs, DTs and CBs are just wasted money when your stud qb gets his leg ripped off.

I dont quite see them as wasted, but definitely in my mind something to take care of only AFTER you protect New Guy

Protect him well

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22 hours ago, HoosierCat said:

DEs, DTs and CBs are just wasted money when your stud qb gets his leg ripped off.

I dont quite see them as wasted, but definitely in my mind something to take care of only AFTER you protect New Guy

Protect him well

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The way I see the draft breaks down pretty simply.

1. If Sewell is there take him

2. If Sewell is gone and Chase is there take him.

3. If both are gone that means that one of the top three QBs are still on the board so you take a king's ransome by a QB needy team further down the draft. Trade down targets would be Slater, Darrisaw, or Pitts which means that they can trade down as far as #16 and still likely get one of your targets.

 

 

 

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6 hours ago, Wraith said:

The way I see the draft breaks down pretty simply.

1. If Sewell is there take him

2. If Sewell is gone and Chase is there take him.

3. If both are gone that means that one of the top three QBs are still on the board so you take a king's ransome by a QB needy team further down the draft. Trade down targets would be Slater, Darrisaw, or Pitts which means that they can trade down as far as #16 and still likely get one of your targets.

 

 

 

This is perfectly stated. That’s how I’ve been running my mocks for a week. The scenario I am not on board with yet is stating at five if Sewell and chase are gone. Maybe the next two months reveals a consensus next guy up at five I can live with but as it stands right now, want a trade if Sewell and chase are gone.

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6 hours ago, membengal said:

This is perfectly stated. That’s how I’ve been running my mocks for a week. The scenario I am not on board with yet is stating at five if Sewell and chase are gone. Maybe the next two months reveals a consensus next guy up at five I can live with but as it stands right now, want a trade if Sewell and chase are gone.

The only guy that might be the next guy is Kyle Pitts and he would look great in stripes....that said someone is going to offer a great deal to trade up if one of those QBs fall to us at 5 and if they do you take it knowing that there are great options later in the first round.  I love Darrisaw from Va Tech for the Bengals and he is going to be there in the 12-15 range.   BTW, another trade down target is Barmore from Alabama, dude looks to me like the best defensive player in this draft and we could use Dline help,

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so....Orlando Brown

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/ravens-pro-bowl-tackle-orlando-brown-jr-wants-to-be-traded-and-multiple-teams-are-interested/

https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/orlando-brown/46227

since he wants is demanding to play OLT, and this would require us to move Williams to another position, I am not sure we would want to acquire him

but it deserves conversation since he is a plus OL

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File Orlando Brown on a good solid pick up IF it would happen.   I wonder if his demand to play LT vs. RT is position or contractual.   As in RT would be fine once he got his next pay day.

 

 

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Both Kiper and McShay have us taking Sewell at 5 in their latest mocks

https://www.si.com/nfl/bengals/gm-report/bengals-mock-draft-bolster-offensive-line

Barring trade down, I'd be in favor of this even if the Bengals pick up two top 20 OLs in free agency, and especially so if those two OLs are signed short term (3 years or less)

Ranked: Tradedown, Sewell, Chase, Slater, Darrisaw

and yes, I know Darrisaw will be considered a significant reach at 5.  dont care.  protect New Guy number 1 priority with no close second

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If they were gonna reach for anyone at 5, Darrisaw is on my short list. 

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the more I read about Slater, the more I come to realize that he will probably be a solid starter for a while but never a star. Also probably better than Sewell on day 1 but not by much, and not (barring injury, as always) better in the long run

I can live with that at 5 because The New Guy wants, needs, and deserves solid protection NOW........though I'd like a lot more in a top 5 pick, even though its possible he is a less risky pick than Sewell. 

We simply cant whiff this pick and expect to contend anytime soon, so "less risky" does have its appeal, for me at least.  I'd rather have a solid start than try for a star and instead get an Oogie

That said, some analysts are now rating Slater in the 15-25 range and I'd love to pick him up after a tradedown gets us in that range

If he somehow fell to our very early second pick I'd be amazed and delighted and would hope they'd not waste a second getting the pick to the podium

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