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Offensive Line Draft Talk Thread

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Good news there - there will likely be very little training camp and probably not open to observers if there is - so we won't have to worry about what it looks like because no one will see it.

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13 minutes ago, COB said:

So it all comes down to FRED JOHNSON.

Comes down to a lot more than that.   
 
They are banking on massive improvement across the board. 

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I grant first and foremost that my attention span was very limited over the latter 3/4 of the 2019 season apart from "please lose for Burrow". With that said:

I definitely saw improvement from the line as the season wore on, but that improvement struck me as a lot more pronounced in the running game. We started the season historically inept, but in the end Mixon was able to scratch and claw his way over 4 yards per carry. That was kind of miraculous frankly. But I don't recall, at least not to the same extent, a notable difference in the frequency with which Dalton/Finley were running for dear life.

We can only hope Fred Johnson is a serious positive contributor and that Jonah Williams carries on the long Bengals tradition of great tackles. My degree of confidence in these guys:

Jonah Williams -- I have faith in the chosen one.

Michael Jordan -- When I envision him starting at guard I don't cringe. I just kind of shrug. I have hope perhaps, but not necessarily faith.

Trey Hopkins -- We're very fortunate this guy turned up and provided an unlikely resolution to our biggest hole before him. I have some faith.

Xavier Su'a-Filo -- I have absolutely no idea. I would be relieved by averageness.

Bobby Hart -- I have neither hope nor faith. I think his ceiling is somewhere around the 33rd percentile of the league, and his floor is [expletive deleted]. I have some hope that his detrimental play can be contained to the "liability" level instead of the "singlehandedly cramps the entire offense" level.

Frederick Johnson -- Counting on him to save the day feels a bit naive. That doesn't mean it's wrong to do so, but I cannot pretend to have any confidence here.

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There is reason for concern no doubt.
There is also reason to be optimistic.

I will readily admit I didn’t watch much of last year at all, let alone the last half of the season. Maybe they improve, maybe not, maybe fuck yourself.

Sorry, “Departed” jumped in at the end there.
I just hope they’ve done enough but am skeptical. Really so disappointed in Price. I was really pumped up about that selection at the time.

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You know, maybe it’s a blessing they barely addressed the oline. I mean, look at where we’ve been:

Williams (1) season-ending injury in camp

Jordan (4) meh

Price (1) bust

Rod Taylor (7) who? Oh right, the guy they took before Auden Tate.

Dielman (5) who?

Westerman (5) a mystery wrapped in an enigma that led nowhere

Ogbuehi (1) epic bust

Fisher (2) bust

Bodine (4) make it stop

Hawkinson (5) injured by blowing wind, other people looking in his direction

Reid Fragel (7) not a rock

TJ Johnson (7) oh yeah, I remember him

Kevin Zeitler (2) OH THANK YOU JESUS! A real live offensive lineman! When was that? 2012. Two thousand and twelve. Eight fucking years ago.

This team’s run of bad oline picks is something to behold.

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Isn't the key for this staff to build the O-line  going to depend on the the defensive players they've signed and drafted to pan out?    I mean, the guy that started this thread and now doesn't want to hear about how bad the offensive line is today was all pissed off about the hire of Turner a year ago.   

Well,  this organization is going to have to go on a tear of developing offensive linemen.  Which means Turner has to be the guy.     More than likely it's next year in the draft is were it will have to happen.    So the defensive adds need to be GOLD so it clears our draft board. 

In the short term they need to grab a stop gap not named Andre Smith or John Jerry from the FA pile.     This line absolutely can not be as bad as it was the first half of last year or the career of Burrow and Taylor is dangerously close to a Cleveland Brown spin cycle.   They did show some improvement 2nd half but that was some smoke and mirrors because aside from Phin and Browns games the offensive production was bad. 

Another concern with so many young linemen is that every off season program and facility is shut down.   Who knows what access to strength training these guys have access to?    

They need to make another FA signing because this group is so unproven and dangerously thin.   

There's an absolutely good chance a year from now we are begging for linemen and for them to really be in contention for a division title they might need 3 new starters. 

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Deleted. Peace to all. Taking a break.  

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31 minutes ago, ShulaSteakhouse said:

 

Be worth kicking his tires. He’s a serviceable player but gets dinged a lot. Just two full seasons in 7 tries.

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9 minutes ago, HoosierCat said:

Be worth kicking his tires. He’s a serviceable player but gets dinged a lot. Just two full seasons in 7 tries.

They released their Center Britt as well.  Same deal, but coming off injury.  Hoping there's a plan to sign/find a lineman.

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Yes bring Fluker in. He’s still on the good side of 30 and has the talent to keep playing. Change of scenery may do him, and us, well.

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Have read that he’s a good locker room presence, so that’s a plus.  Wish he was a RT though.

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23 hours ago, HoosierCat said:

You know, maybe it’s a blessing they barely addressed the oline. I mean, look at where we’ve been:

Williams (1) season-ending injury in camp

Jordan (4) meh

Price (1) bust

Rod Taylor (7) who? Oh right, the guy they took before Auden Tate.

Dielman (5) who?

Westerman (5) a mystery wrapped in an enigma that led nowhere

Ogbuehi (1) epic bust

Fisher (2) bust

Bodine (4) make it stop

Hawkinson (5) injured by blowing wind, other people looking in his direction

Reid Fragel (7) not a rock

TJ Johnson (7) oh yeah, I remember him

Kevin Zeitler (2) OH THANK YOU JESUS! A real live offensive lineman! When was that? 2012. Two thousand and twelve. Eight fucking years ago.

This team’s run of bad oline picks is something to behold.

Exactly correct and feel free to add tight ends. There's no secret about why the Bengals have lost big. 

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13 hours ago, COB said:

Have read that he’s a good locker room presence, so that’s a plus.  Wish he was a RT though.

I thought he was and Bobby Hart replaced him or he replaced Hart.   Either way,  fluker really hasn't been all that good.     He was considered good as a rookie with SD but never progressed.

 

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Yeah, Fluker was a RT coming out of Alabama.  He was switched to OG because he's always had problems with speed off the edge.
I said bring him in because we could always be worse off, but in looking at how he's fared since being in the league, maybe not...

 

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The Ravens signed Fluker.  I guess I don't really understand the confidence the Bengals' have in their 0-line.  Fluker is better than any OG on the roster, including Sua.

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5 minutes ago, ShulaSteakhouse said:

The Ravens signed Fluker. 

Of course. And no, I don’t get it either Shula, but what can you do?

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4 minutes ago, HoosierCat said:

Of course. And no, I don’t get it either Shula, but what can you do?

Complain about it on Bengalszone :)

 

 

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Are we sure he was better than any other OG on the roster ??
Dude's been shuffled around just as much as some of the clowns we have.
I could be wrong and maybe he's awesome for the Ravens.  I'm betting he won't be though as he just hasn't been that great.

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Well our guards sucked last year, so maybe.

PFF grades are great at a high level.  Fluker was grades out at 60. 
 

Somebody smarter than me can write a paper on how a guard PFF graded in 60s and cut multiple times impacts this line in any noticeable fashion. 
 

Its always been my opinion you get most impact from solidifying the edges.  

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On 4/25/2020 at 3:51 PM, membengal said:

Joe Burrow was pressured on 29% of his dropbacks last year. Andy Dalton was pressured on 29% of his dropbacks last year.  Burrow also did a ton to avoid hits and sacks. Oh, and he had a passer rating while doing so that would make Dalton blush. Burrow is better than Dalton. From day 1. He's used to dealing with pressure. So, I am gonna skip the wailing and gnashing of teeth on that front. 

This needs read again

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On 4/25/2020 at 4:12 PM, HoosierCat said:

I’m not at all concerned about Burrow’s ability to play behind a poor Oline.

I'm very concerned about a poor oline getting Burrow injured.

this needs read again :-)

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1 hour ago, redsbengalsbucks said:

This needs read again

So what?   A statement like that avoids the reality.

1. Colts just had a play making franchise QB retire due to the accumulation of injuries. 

2. Avoiding hits and making plays out of pressure is a strength of Joe Burrow, BUT that doesn't mean you are having an elite offense.

We've seen this before.   IF the line doesn't improve by vast amounts were are going to be left with Burrow making awesome plays mixed in with a number of throw aways and punts.   That will get people standing up and cheering and it would be awesome IF he could do it as well as Luck did.  Put the team on your back and carry it to the playoffs. 

People can argue the probability of Burrow doing what Luck did in his first couple years.  Or how much of his greatness can overcome a clear weakness.   However, the probability is low and it's not really sustainable.

If they start piling up skill position injuries like they have for the past two years then it gets worse.    

 

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30 minutes ago, TJJackson said:

this needs read again :-)

Injury is a concern. 

Accumulation of hits is a concern.

The biggest concern for me is if Burrow balls out.  The line never gets any better.  The overall team success is limited because of it.  You waste the Mixon prime and final years of AJ.  Burrow decides to go the route of Palmer and Luck.

The organization this year has basically doubled down on it's o-line transactions.   Not going to play real well if Burrow gets killed and eventually it will cause a riff IF it never improves.

My guess a year from now we are begging for a tackle like we have since 2017.   

We'll be reminded how old this is watching Hart trying to block Watt. 

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