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Wraith

The Most Bengals Thing Ever......

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We have a great chance to draft the franchise QB, a guy that checks off all the boxes...Size, Speed, Arm Strength, Football IQ, Passion, Hunger, Leadership...etc.  This guy (Joe Burrow) is an Athens, Ohio native who would likely love to bring this team back to prominence (back to.....is a little bit of reach) around all of his friends and family.  This is Taylor-made (pun intended) to be perfect for the Bengals, but in the most Bengals thing ever Dalton revives his pre-2016 career and the Bengals win the last two games of the season...Miami takes Burrow #1, Chase Young decides to stay at Ohio State and the Bengals select Justin Herbert in the first round, exciting no-one.  Herbert struggles for five years behind sub-par O-Lines leading to another lost decade in Cincinnati until the NFL decides to cut their losses and pays off the Browns family to just go away...

Joe Burrow on the other hand finds immediate success in Miami, bringing the Dolphins two championships and resurrecting the 70-80's dominance over the AFC East with Brady and Belichek's retirement in NE.  In his Hall of Fame speech, Joe Burrow says"thank god I didn't get drafted by the Bengals!"  Everyone laughs, <end Scene> 

To prevent this future the Bengals just need to pull all their starters until they lose a game.....Please for the love of all-fandom, do not screw this up....

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That would be pretty Bengals. But I fear the reality will be even more depressing: they will draft Burrow, and he will fail.

How, I don’t have a clue. But it will happen. Maybe he’s the one-year wonder TJ is afraid of. Maybe his career is derailed in a series of bizarre injuries, a la Eifert. Maybe he has amazing success until a season ending injury inflicted by Pittsburgh, like Palmer and Dalton, and his best season is lost and we never see its like again. Maybe he’s good, but the FO skimps on talent around him and he can’t fly surrounded by turkeys. Maybe he’s good but is betrayed by poor coaching.

But probably it will be something new, some fresh horror oozing up from the fetid depths to swallow our hopes once again.

I, for one, can’t wait.

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Palmer was brought into a situation that was set-up by a more competent/experienced coaching staff that had an 0-line pretty much in-place, good WR's and a top 5-10 defense.

This team has none of that and needs upgrades across the entire o-line, and will be depending on a rookie LT coming-off of injury with no pro experience to speak of.

I mean you almost wonder if trading-down a few spots and picking-up an additional 2nd round pick or something might be best, giving them more flexibility (taking the best OT in the draft, then drafting a QB in Rd. 2 or something - aka Hurts, Tua, etc..,).

Taylor will want his QB though, that's for sure.  

 

 

 

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Joe Burrow does a lot of stuff well but isn't what is described as above.    He's earned the No.1 overall consideration because he's overcome rankings that had him passed over.  

Joe Burrow has done a lot in a short period of time but he's is the very definition of 1 year wonder.    His out of high school offer sheet isn't as impressive as others.    He's earned the No. 1 overall consideration and you can't take that away from him, BUT this is hardly a Joe Burrow or bust draft.

He was passed over a OSU for Haskins and Fields that's why he is at LSU.   Basically came out of no where there too as his 2018 wasn't turning heads.  SEC media had him mid pack for SEC QB behind guys like Mond at Texas A&M and Franks at Florida.

Burrow is riding a top of the wave right now.   Do not be surprised if the gap is closed on him by April. 

It's a good year to be drafting in the top 5. 
 

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Well, assuming (I know, always dangerous) Williams works out at one of the tackle spots, they still have Glenn under contract through next year and Hopkins has been serviceable at center...so at least in theory all they need is a decent pair of guards, who shouldn’t be *that* hard to find.

If Burrow is half of what’s being promised he ought to be able to do something with the WRs, even sans Green, and the RB situation is fine. Really, you can make a case that the O isn’t that far away from respectable.

D on the other hand has a lot of aging core guys, no LBs worth spit, and a secondary that ought to be a lot better considering all the No. 1 picks out there, but isn’t.

And I don’t know about anyone else but after this season I have zero confidence that Zac Taylor & Co. are the answer.

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The o-line needs a major influx of talent.   The reality is that's been something easily typed on message boards.    The fact is the Bengals DID get it right with Hart and HART still sucks.  Impact linemen as rookies or even 2nd year guys have been hard to find.

The Colts are a good case study.   Their line has blossomed into a solid unit.   However there's  a couple high picks that sucked for a while.   They got 1 instant impact guard in Nelson.  

I don't think you can sit around and "fix" the o-line and put off QB.     It would take a whole lot more than an extra 2nd rounder to trade out of this top 5. 

I would swap with Dolphins for their top 5 pick, grab their extra 1st rounder, then take a 3rd or something.

 

 

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I get that when you can take the franchise 10 year starting qb, you do so

I really do get that

....however....

I am not absolutely sure this is that guy, primarily because he has bounced from one college team to another and has had one good (really, really, REALLY good) year

I figure they will take him at pick 1 and I hope that he will then becoming the next coming of Peyton Manning and not the next Akili Smith, or Ryan Leaf. 

If this works out, that is one plate of crow I will gladly wolf down without reserve

In this scenario, 2nd and 3rd round picks need to both be OL, one of which must be ORT, preferrably the r2 guy.  I know we need LBs desperately, but if we're going to invest this heavily in a QB the need to protect him exceeds the need to bolster our defense.  r4-5 picks can be LB.  

Green will almost certainly be franchise tagged, given how this franchise operates.  If Burrow has some success in 2020, I can see his desire to leave possibly changing.  Maybe.  He still deserves better, and I will not ever hate him when he does leave

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In concept, I would love to trade for two firsts in this draft.  I totally agree that there is very little to no possibility of making improvements without addressing the both lines and the linebackers.  In general I am a big proponent of getting creative with the draft board.  But reasonably, The Bengals are taking a QB in Rd. 1...we know that Mike Brown is not a creative thinker and we know that Taylor wants his QB....Burrow is not only the best QB in this draft but the synchrony with being a local kid is that much more attractive.  Personally, I love Jalen Hurts and think he will be a Russel Wilson type impact player and would be great with collecting a bunch of picks. 

With Palmer, he was a no brainer from a skillset prespective but he wasn't a great leader and he had no connection with Cincinnati or Ohio or even the midwest...

I know people are still concerned Burrow will be another Akili but I don't think that applies here.  Yes he is a one year wonder but he is running a pro-style offense and watching him (and I have watched a ton of Burrow tape in the last few weeks) he goes through his progressions and makes great decisions whereas Akili was in a gimmick offense where he went to his first read and then took off.

 

 

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They will take Burrow, and I don’t think it’s the wrong choice. Using the rest of the premium picks to get guards is...extravagant but unfortunately necessary, because the FO will never pay the premium price to get good guards (if any are around ) in FA. They probably won’t even pay these keep these guys if the past is any indication. If you can find a Whitworth type who can move to tackle after Glenn leaves so much the better.

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Gotta put yourself in the shoes of an NFL team that doesn't have the attachment or romanticism associated with Burrow a fan might, weigh the risks of drafting a guy with one good year of college that comes from a mediocre pedigree as a prospect,  etc.., vs a 3-year or 4-year guy, where there's a lot more tape to study.  Just look at Hurts succeeding with two different elite schools and still putting-up #'s for instance, and all that tape you have of him in 2 different systems - or Herbert with 3+ years of tape and consistent production, along with prototypical NFL pedigree.  Any team could fall in love with either of those 2 guys at this point still.

Combines and workouts will be a difference-maker, Bowl games, playoff games etc.., still to be played. 

Burrows #'s alone shouldn't mean much, Haskins had the same #'s last year and slid into the mid-1st - could've dropped even more if not for WASH.

It will be interesting to see if Burrow goes on to dazzle everyone with a NC run and is dominate, or not.  I can't wait for the those games.

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2 hours ago, HoosierCat said:

They will take Burrow, and I don’t think it’s the wrong choice. Using the rest of the premium picks to get guards is...extravagant but unfortunately necessary, because the FO will never pay the premium price to get good guards (if any are around ) in FA. They probably won’t even pay these keep these guys if the past is any indication. If you can find a Whitworth type who can move to tackle after Glenn leaves so much the better.

Unless a prospect is a Quentin Nelson type player....I am betting the Colts FO isn't thinking a top 8 pick was too high for a player that was the best player in his NFL position group from the minute he stepped onto the practice field.

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1 hour ago, Wraith said:

Unless a prospect is a Quentin Nelson type player....I am betting the Colts FO isn't thinking a top 8 pick was too high for a player that was the best player in his NFL position group from the minute he stepped onto the practice field.

This team desperately needs a pro-bowl caliber C/G on that line, so badly, I'd rate it, due to the failure of Price so far, as their most dire need aside from a QB.  I'd prefer they go for an over-priced Vet FA there as opposed to another rookie, but like HC said, that isn't the Bengal way.  Ideally they'd draft a C/G in the first 3 rounds and sign one as well.

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Burrow has a work ethic and is a student of the game. Nothing like Akili Smith. 

As of now he’s the runaway QB prospect. If he dominates the CF playoffs, it’s even more so.

You can’t play the “what if” game. You draft the #1 QB prospect. You ride with that decision. Even more important is you improve the talent on the roster. Not taking him “because he might fail” though the evidence in front of you says the opposite...is the talk of losers. 
 

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1 hour ago, cincyhokie said:

Burrow has a work ethic and is a student of the game. Nothing like Akili Smith. 

As of now he’s the runaway QB prospect. If he dominates the CF playoffs, it’s even more so.

You can’t play the “what if” game. You draft the #1 QB prospect. You ride with that decision. Even more important is you improve the talent on the roster. Not taking him “because he might fail” though the evidence in front of you says the opposite...is the talk of losers. 
 

Agreed, they have to get the first pick first.

Lose the damn game this week.

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9 hours ago, cincyhokie said:

Burrow has a work ethic and is a student of the game. Nothing like Akili Smith. 

As of now he’s the runaway QB prospect. If he dominates the CF playoffs, it’s even more so.

You can’t play the “what if” game. You draft the #1 QB prospect. You ride with that decision. Even more important is you improve the talent on the roster. Not taking him “because he might fail” though the evidence in front of you says the opposite...is the talk of losers. 
 

Thank you. This saved me a lot of angry typing.

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Akili was drafted into Baseball and did that for a while for Pittsburgh Pirates.   His grades were bad and had to go community college.    Because of this he had very little Division 1 College Football experience.

Burrow’s lack of experience stems from redshirts and being back up to JT Barrett.  Then a transfer as a graduate

 

 

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10 hours ago, cincyhokie said:

You draft the #1 QB prospect.

Oh, they will.

10 hours ago, cincyhokie said:

You ride with that decision.

“We will go as far as Joe Burrow can take us.” — Mike Brown, May 2020.

10 hours ago, cincyhokie said:

Even more important is you improve the talent on the roster.

I’m sorry, but as a Bengals fan I’m not familiar with the last six words of this sentence. If it means “throw in some rookies and scrubs,” then ok, done. If you mean something else, I’m afraid we can’t help.

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I thought this topic would be about Zac Taylor blaming the WR for all of Daltons mistakes, then come back the next day and regret saying that. That to me is some benga’s shit right there. 
 

If Burrow fails it’s because of this shitty coaching staff that seems to be in place. Wish I had hopes moving forward with this group, but as of now I do not! I still feel Taylor is in over his head and has no clue what’s going on, and his assistance coaches, seem to be no help. Guess will see where all this goes soon. 

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 because he has bounced from one college team to another and has had one good (really, really, REALLY good) year

Sigh. Have you read ANY of the articles posted on here about him (si.com, Ringer, etc)?

He hasn't "bounced" from one college team to another any more than Russell Wilson did (NC State to Wisconsin) or Cam Newton (Univ. of Florida to Auburn) or Baker Mayfield (aTm to Oklahoma).  He showed up at LSU in late spring of 2018 after graduating in 3 years from tOSU where he sat behind Barrett and Haskins (and lost out to Haskins in the spring where it mattered because of an ankle injury that kept him from competing). He picked up the then LSU offense on the fly and by game 8 started the process of becoming what he has become this year. His last four games for LSU in his junior year were a preview of coming attractions. And then this year with a new coordinator and the restrictor plates removed he has turned in perhaps the best college season for a QB ever. EVER. He's mature, he would be glad to come back to Ohio, he does his best work under pressure, he's accurate as hell, and he's athletic. If they fuck up and win two games to end this year and miss out on him I will be apoplectic. If they pick #1 overall and pass on him it may end my fandom. This is simple - the right QB can cover for a lot of incompetence in the front office. If they pass up taking a guy who might do that, there is no reason to keep following them. 

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I will just go ahead and leave this here. Again. READ IT AND WATCH THE CLIPS.

https://www.theringer.com/2019/12/13/21020359/joe-burrow-lsu-tigers-heisman-trophy-quarterback-playoff

 

Quote

 

There’s a part of my brain that still doesn’t believe in Joe Burrow.

I understand that this is wrong. Burrow has just put together the greatest passing season in college football history. He completed 77.9 percent of his attempts, smashing the all-time mark (76.7 percent) set by Texas’s Colt McCoy in 2008. He has thrown 48 touchdown passes and has a chance to break the power-conference record after competing in the College Football Playoff. He led LSU to a 13-0 campaign, taking down five teams that were ranked in the top 10 of the AP poll when he played them. And he delivered some of his biggest performances against the best competition in the sport. The Tigers hung 46 points on a previously undefeated Alabama team in November; they dropped 37 in a rout of a previously one-loss Georgia squad in the SEC championship game. Burrow’s season has been pure, unmitigated greatness. He will certainly win the Heisman Trophy on Saturday night and will likely be the no. 1 pick in the 2020 NFL draft.

It all seems impossible. For starters, there are the throws. A completion percentage just shy of 80 should be possible for only a risk-averse QB who would rather take a checkdown than a touchdown. Burrow is not that. He often throws deep to receivers in tight coverage. Yet all of his risks pay off. He is college football’s needle-threader extraordinaire. If he were a gambler, he’d put the damn casino out of business.

...

You don’t have time to watch every incredible throw he’s made. Burrow has attempted 439 passes this season and, as previously noted, completed them at a record rate. So here are nine plays that define the bewilderingly successful career of Joe Burrow, the quarterback who turns 50-50 balls into 100-0 balls

 

 

By the way, Burrow is probably a top 20 QB in the NFL RIGHT NOW. He has the ability to help a bad line look average and a decent line look good. He's like nothing we have ever really had at QB in terms of mobility and pocket awareness.

Just lose one more and make the obvious pick. This isn't rocket science. 

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56 minutes ago, volcom69 said:

I thought this topic would be about Zac Taylor blaming the WR for all of Daltons mistakes, then come back the next day and regret saying that. That to me is some benga’s shit right there. 
 

If Burrow fails it’s because of this shitty coaching staff that seems to be in place. Wish I had hopes moving forward with this group, but as of now I do not! I still feel Taylor is in over his head and has no clue what’s going on, and his assistance coaches, seem to be no help. Guess will see where all this goes soon. 

volcom, fwiw, I have been wondering since somewhere around 0-7 if the coaches are pulling punches. Starting Finley for three games (two of them VERY winnable) was a HUGE assistance to an effort to secure the top pick. Some of their play-calling is SO obtuse I wonder if it is designed to kinda not succeed.

I am NOT SAYING they are tanking games. I am also NOT NOT saying it. If you wanted to design a season where you aim for a top pick institutionally, it would be this one, after they lost Williams in OTAs, Green on day 1 of camp, and headed into the year with the mystery of Cordy Glenn's head, and then losing a few tough games to start the year with Dalton doing his usual Dalton things.

I am not saying this is a good coaching staff, but I am saying I don't know if they are or not. I am willing to allow for the possibility they can be good as a staff. Jimmy Johnson once upon a time went 1-15. Bill Walsh's first year as a head coach was miserable. Who knows where this goes? Add a real life functioning potential top 10 QB and I bet they look a lot smarter next year...

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It'd help if they could find a way to start Dolegala for the last two games

Mem: I will as I have said happily eat many heaping helpings of crow if you are right.  I really, really, really hope you are. 

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1 hour ago, membengal said:

Sigh. Have you read ANY of the articles posted on here about him (si.com, Ringer, etc)?

He hasn't "bounced" from college team to another any more than Russell Wilson did (NC State to Wisconsin) or Cam Newton (Univ. of Florida to Auburn) or Baker Mayfield (aTm to Oklahoma).  He showed up at LSU in late spring of 2018 after graduating in 3 years from tOSU where he sat behind Barrett and Haskins (and lost out to Haskins in the spring where it mattered because of an ankle injury that kept him from competing). He picked up the then LSU offense on the fly and by game 8 started the process of becoming what he has become this year. His last four games for LSU in his junior year were a preview of coming attractions. And then this year with a new coordinator and the restrictor plates removed he has turned in perhaps the best college season for a QB ever. EVER. He's mature, he would be glad to come back to Ohio, he does his best work under pressure, he's accurate as hell, and he's athletic. If they fuck up and win two games to end this year and miss out on him I will be apoplectic. If they pick #1 overall and pass on him it may end my fandom. This is simple - the right QB can cover for a lot of incompetence in the front office. If they pass up taking a guy who might do that, there is no reason to keep following them. 

Truth, BUT the reality is IF the Bengals draft Burrow No. 1 overall they will be selecting him over other QB prospects that were rated higher than him just a few month ago.    It is also fact that Burrow has never been a flawless evaluated QB that earns 5 star highschool/college ratings with offer sheets from every major Football Factory.   He also is not the Luck/Manning type that has demonstrated a high level of QBing over thousands of attempts and supplying hours of film.

To  hold a mindset that its "Burrow or bust" when actual football evaluators have never had him at the top with multiple attempts is foolish.   

When silly season starts to fly there will be QB prospects that will do something better than Burrow.   

This is closer to taking Baker Mayfield No. 1 overall vs.  undisputed blue blood born and bred No.1 QB prospect. 

  

Edit:  Keep in mind: I said "closer" to Baker.   Not that Burrow is Baker because Mayfield was a walkon level prospect and hit a fire streak to carry him to the top of college football and the No. 1 overall pick.      Burrow at least has the foundation of being evaluated at 3/4 stars and got scholarship offers to OSU (power 5 school)   But there are similarities.    

Overall point being is Burrow is not a Luck/Manning prospect and when he goes under the microscope and when those results make their way to the public;  then talking heads will entertain other draft paths and plans.   

 

 

 

 

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Burrow is the pick.  I have some unease about it, but I have considerably more unease with the damage to Tua's body and the fact that Herbert looks like a Walmart version of a first round quarterback.

I'll be interested to see how his prospects this year compare with Trevor Lawrence next year.  That's the guy that is going to get Manning or Luck kind of buzz.  It doesn't mean all that much though in the end.  Aaron Rodgers didn't get quite that buzz -- he was a debatable #1 overall until he crashed to the lower first round (foolishly so for every team involved). Lamar Jackson and Cam Newton didn't get that buzz, because that's not their game. Patrick Mahomes didn't get that buzz. Russell Wilson and Dak Prescott weren't even second rounders. We all know about Brady. Drew Brees didn't get that buzz back in the stone age.

It's all pretty meaningless, I think. If there's a clear-cut #1 QB, and you're picking #1, and you need a QB... then that's that. The decision is quite simple.

This year it's Burrow. It's plausible that changes between now and the draft with the combine etc, but I don't get the impression that's super likely.

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