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TJJackson

Time to begin the rebuild

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We have zero hope this year and several aging players who could really help a contending team....and they should all be considered tradeable at this point for younger players and/or draft picks

Love and/or respect almost all of these guys, but they deserve better and we need to ammo to get better over the next few years

Geno
Dunlap
AJ
Gio
Eifert
Kirkpatrick
and of course
Andy

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Agree that they are at that point.
Why hold onto these guys that won't be a part of the rebuild ??
It would hurt my heart to see guys like AJ and Geno go, but why not build stock in that future ??

I don't think Andy goes anywhere this season, but there's no reason to bring him back in 2020.
Thing is, I don't think this organization is savvy enough to pull off selling the pieces.

It would probably end up looking like the Reds in selling off pieces to the LOWEST bidder...
 

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In addition to moving guys who still have value, they need to beef up scouting and personnel. Won’t do any good to stockpile picks and keep having the same shitty drafts. They did that early in the Lewis era, but let it all dwindle away. 

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I'm on board.  The only player I'd be genuinely saddened to lose at this point is Atkins, and even still it's just time to move on.  Geno has Hall of Fame numbers and he will never be taken seriously in that light if he stays here.  I want better for him.  The same can be said for AJ and Andy who have been nothing but absolute professionals in Cincinnati.  Whatever the negatives may be, I'll look back on their time here pridefully.

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7 minutes ago, Stripes said:

I'm on board.  The only player I'd be genuinely saddened to lose at this point is Atkins, and even still it's just time to move on.  Geno has Hall of Fame numbers and he will never be taken seriously in that light if he stays here.  I want better for him.  The same can be said for AJ and Andy who have been nothing but absolute professionals in Cincinnati.  Whatever the negatives may be, I'll look back on their time here pridefully.

Of course they had a great run here. When Marvin had the likes of some great veteran coaches with him this team was so fun to watch. I remember I couldn’t wait till Sunday to watch them. Now I just don’t care and it really sucks feeling that way, but, until they show me change is coming I just won’t care.

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50 minutes ago, Stripes said:

I'm on board.  The only player I'd be genuinely saddened to lose at this point is Atkins, and even still it's just time to move on.  Geno has Hall of Fame numbers and he will never be taken seriously in that light if he stays here.  I want better for him.  The same can be said for AJ and Andy who have been nothing but absolute professionals in Cincinnati.  Whatever the negatives may be, I'll look back on their time here pridefully.

Absolutely. I said at the time and still maintain we lived through a golden age of Bengals football from 2011 to 2015. 43-20-1 in  Even r gulag season and five straight playoff berths. Yes, it sucked they could never get over the playoff hump, but they were a good and occasionally great team. For all its warts, this era is right up there with the heydays of the Anderson and Esiason squads for me. 

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Agree with most everything said to this point.

Geno has been and continues to be my favorite player.  When I do wear a jersey, it's his.

My oldest, the Texans fan, still wears his AJ Green jersey all the time as well.

Like others, they are just real pros.  It's a real shame the good guys couldn't win more when it mattered most.

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The players are real pros.  The front office is a crew from a valvoline oil change place, transplanted into a hundred million dollar business.  

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Good write up.

My take or spin is this: 

I’m not angry or disappointed at the organization or Andy Dalton.  Dalton is one of my favorite Bengals all time.  IMO, class act.

However this is what I wanted.  

The Bengals are young and have been for 3 consecutive seasons.  You don’t get that without blowing up the roster.

They blew up the coaching staff. 

There was comfort with Marvin and Dalton.  Maybe Marvin has a win by now? 

At the end of the day there was comfort with Marvin and a Wild Card round ceiling.

Same with Dalton.  Sure you can easily do worse and they are.   Dalton will cost more cap room than he currently does in his next deal.  That’s what stable gets you.

I’m going to watch every week just like the first 4.  I hope the bengals can thread the needle and be competitive and lose enough to secure a Top 5 pick. 

Then all I ask if in year 3 it still is bad.  You do what real NFL teams do and flush the coaches and personnel staff and start over. 

2015 the window closed.  They tried to reopen too long and delayed it longer and that’s what we got right now.  

They blew their opportunities with the leagues most talented roster 2013-2015. 

Hopefully they can acquire more talent in the same manner. 

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I’m sick of always waiting.

I don’t have that much more energy to devote.

Bottom line for me is that I know how this story ends and I choose to not indulge most of the time anymore.

The Brown Family is a perpetual exercise in the hope of catching lightning.

I simply can’t give my time and money to that anymore.

Color me fair-weathered...

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Dude, Mike’s got a few more years to aimlessly drive around training camp in his golf cart.  This shit isn’t over, by a long shot.

i just read an article about something called gaslighting.  It’s when someone kind of tells you what you’re seeing isn’t real, what you believe to be true based on the evidence in front of you, is not true.  

And gaslighting is what the fucking Brown family has been doing to us for 30 years.  Marvin joined in, “fans don’t understand football,” etc.  You don’t know how hard it is to run an nfl franchise, there are no free agent tackles, etc.  

They just keep doing what they’ve done as the game and the business changes around them.  To hire new coaches then just show up with the same o-line and same linebackers is typical.  

Mike Brown is a selfish prick.  He should have relinquished control, he should have stepped away from any substantive, meaningful, role a long time ago.  I see old-timers in my industry do the same thing.  They just won’t let go.  Then the competitor with young management adapts to the changing landscape and the old guy is sitting there with a shell of his former business, and he’s complaining about young people, the government, whatever.  Everything and everyone else is to blame.

It won’t change until Mike is incapacitated or dies, because no one in the family is apparently willing to push him out.  

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The thing is, even if Mikey were to go to his reward tomorrow, there’s no evidence that things would change. On the contrary, it looks like it would just be business as usual. Katie has been handling the money side for years and hasn’t deviated from the old man’s longtime pay as you go approach. And Troy’s now infamous OT rant earlier this year shows the same personnel creativity (ie little to none) as always.

I had some hope that once Mike was out of the picture, Katie would step back into a more traditional owner role and hire and real GM and personnel manager, but it looks like Troy wants to be Mikey 2.0.

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That's kind of my point in regards to what happens after Mike Brown passes.
We all know how that story is going to end.

I use to have faith that things would change at that point, but it HAS been years since Katie has taken on a large role and it's the same old, same old.

If those "hard core" fans still want to believe in the "Give it some time", "You have to let this play out", I won't blame them.  Seriously.
I've simply invested too many years of my time in spewing those same lines as a "hard core" fan and no longer care to wait any longer.

I've moved on to the realization that more than likely it won't improve and YES, YES, YES, it's the Brown family's fault.
It's always been their fault.  No need to try to convince me otherwise either.  I'm told old to change my mind.

I'm still looking forward to the day the lease is up.  Nothing would please me more at this point than to see them pack this shit show up and leave.
 

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I hate to break it to you guys but Mike Brown probably hasn’t had major influence on the roster since 2010. 

No one knows for sure but it’s been alluded to in the past.

They are in this mess because they that can’t draft O-line.  

Mike and Katie aren’t setting the draft board.  

Mike Brown also didn’t fumble the ball against Steelers or break Andy’s thumb.

He’s guilty for hanging onto Marvin and eventually Tobin if it doesn’t turn around.  

Mike Brown is just a fan belief that simplifies the problem for an easy solution.

They had great rosters.  They choked.  Had bad luck.   They tried to keep it going too long. Have drafted poorly recently.   Here we are

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Yea but the Browns are who let some of the great players walk out the door, as well. They are so terrible at running a team, it’s the same shit every year.

They never go out trading or signing good free agents to help fill there holes, every now and then they find someone, but it’s always the same shitty players.

Just annoyed with this team

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Agreed with AMPHAR.  They have genuinely tried to address the offensive line in a substantial way, and it hasn't worked out yet.  They picked two of them in the first two rounds a few years ago, and both ended up terrible.  They picked one in the first round this year, and he didn't even make it to July healthy.  I really don't think most NFL teams do more than that if faced with the same dilemma, and the ones that do try to shoehorn in some mediocre free agent to cover for an injury don't often succeed that way.

I do think they could have done more with the linebacking corps.  I don't think that mistake is of an "eviscerate the organization for all of its fundamental attributes" caliber.  I do think Marvin should have been gone well before he was gone.  At the same time though, I think there's a very reasonable defense even for that (at least through 2015, where the argument dies) -- five straight playoff berths is nothing to sneeze at.  The failures in the playoffs can be attributed to bad luck, and that's not some absurd or enabling thing -- five football games are no sample size to determine anything.  I wanted him gone before that, but I wasn't truly upset about it until about 2016.

Duke Tobin had a pretty amazing draft run for a while in every round other than the first.  That run ended a couple of years ago, and we haven't recovered yet.  We'll have to see what happens.  I don't think there is any basis at all though for the sweeping assumption that we're back in 1991 now, Zac Taylor is Dave Shula, and that the Bengals cannot possibly sniff contention any time soon.  Are those things accurate?  They could be.  0-4 doesn't tell me that though.  Not yet.

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Oh don't get me wrong.  I've never mentioned this being the same as the 90's and I don't think that's the case.

I just don't care anymore and don't think it will change, no matter what angle I view it from.
I've looked at this organization with optimistic lenses for quite some time and said, "Next year is our year" many times.
The thing is, next year has never come and I no longer think it will.  Again, I won't complain about those that think it will happen.
It's the only thing that allows someone to remain a fan.

Mike Brown hasn't run the whole show for quite some time.  Thing is, the results have been all too familiar.
That being the case, it tells me the philosophy hasn't changed much regardless of him moving away from that role.

I'm hopeful they figure it out.  I will continue to root for the Bengals.  I will be very happy if that day ever comes.
I simply don't think it ever will in all honesty and nothing they have done would lead me to believing that.
I believe the entire Brown family philosophy on how to run an NFL team is flawed.

I wished their results proved me wrong, but that trophy case for Lombardi's is awfully bare.
Hell, I'm not even mad about it anymore.

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eh, they went to the playoffs 6 out 7 years. 

They didn’t get it done.

Mike Brown is guilty of keeping the “football people” that were responsible for that run around too long. 

Now is the aftermath because the football people got offensive line picks wrong. 

As for LBs.  I have personally heard Pauly G say he was willing to pass on a LBer for another position because they devalued them.   That was at the draft party when they took Jackson over the ND and UCLA LBs that had fallen. 

Marvin personally scouting Bodine and trading up to get him has nothing to do with Mike or Katie. 

Mike Brown is also guilty of not going cash over cap, but that does limit you in the out years. 

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42 minutes ago, ArmyBengal said:

I just don't care anymore and don't think it will change, no matter what angle I view it from.
I've looked at this organization with optimistic lenses for quite some time and said, "Next year is our year" many times.
The thing is, next year has never come and I no longer think it will.  Again, I won't complain about those that think it will happen.
It's the only thing that allows someone to remain a fan.

I think that's the crux of things, and I don't blame you for feeling that way.  I don't necessarily have any confidence that it will ever be their year either.  However, I am not sure that's as much a direct fault of theirs as it is a product of there only being one Super Bowl champion per year.  Some teams are just going to get the short end of the stick by the numbers, especially in recent eras where a couple of teams have been so consistent and the Patriots have been in their own class.

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Of all the 0-4 Bengals threads, this has to be the 0-4iest.

 

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Just can't see Brown, one, eating any kind of $$ he doesn't have to.  So replacing Hart and Preston Brown probably aren't high on his agenda.  I expect they'll draft a franchise QB next year, and that'll be it for Dalton either next season or the one after that.

They'll draft some more o-lineman and maybe a LB or two, sign one or two, maybe a SS or CB, none of them will be worth much, but will be upgrades to the slop here, and wah lah - there's your rebuild.

 

 

 

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