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GregCook

Marvin Lewis cracks me up

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Here is one quote from Marvin as he analyzes the team's 2008 performance:

"In the debate of talent vs. coaching, Lewis said this team has fewer good players than the '05 AFC North champs because "I don't think some of our good players work like they did in '05." But he also said it's a league of parity."

Some of our 2005 players? Who I wonder were the slackers? Only 10 players left from that squad.

1. TJ

2. Ocho

3. Carson

4. Levi

5. Kelly

6. Larson

7. Chris Perry

8. St. Louis

9. Watson

10. Graham

Throw Carson out, injured nearly all year. TJ, throw him out too, near Pro Bowl status. Graham? He's been fine. Kelly? Throw him out too, he's played well. St. Louis? Please.

Watson? He hardly plays.

It seems to me Marvin is talking about Ocho, Levi, Larson, and/or Chris Perry as reasons for the Bengals not achieving 2005 status.

What a loon.

If he had said well, look at our draft picks since 2005, not enough were good enough and we have simply got to do a better job on draft day. We need more scouts, more eyeballs on the players during their seasons and this will be one of my biggest priorities with the owner during the offseason. Another thing, we let some good players leave us in FA that we probably should have kept and kept players we should have let go. That is another big issue that ownership needs to address.

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How do you know all those guys work just as hard as they did back then? I don't know that Carson put in as much work? As for TJ- dude wouldn't even show up for off-season workouts with the team, and then sat out pretty much all of pre-season so his timing was off with Palmer even when they were both playing.

Besides, I think you misunderstand what he said. He wasn't necessarily saying the guys who were good players in 2005 who are still on the team are not working as hard. He said the guys who were the good players back then worked harder now than the guys who are the best players on this team. That could mean Deltha O'Neal and Tory James work harder than Hall and Joseph. Justin Smith works harder than Antwan Odom or Robert Geathers. Rudi Johnson worked harder than whoever. Brian Simmons, David Pollack, all those guys who were our best players than were harder workers than the guys who are our best players now. So, it's not a question of talent, but of effort.

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Our Players missing from 2005?

Rich Braham,Willie anderson,Eric Steinbach and a Levi Jones who could play...

I'd Have to say that's missing alot :| hence our drop off since 2006 when we lost Braham and our line started getting banged up.

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How do you know all those guys work just as hard as they did back then? I don't know that Carson put in as much work? As for TJ- dude wouldn't even show up for off-season workouts with the team, and then sat out pretty much all of pre-season so his timing was off with Palmer even when they were both playing.

Besides, I think you misunderstand what he said. He wasn't necessarily saying the guys who were good players in 2005 who are still on the team are not working as hard. He said the guys who were the good players back then worked harder now than the guys who are the best players on this team. That could mean Deltha O'Neal and Tory James work harder than Hall and Joseph. Justin Smith works harder than Antwan Odom or Robert Geathers. Rudi Johnson worked harder than whoever. Brian Simmons, David Pollack, all those guys who were our best players than were harder workers than the guys who are our best players now. So, it's not a question of talent, but of effort.

Well if that is the interpretation Lewis intended, he's saying his coaches couldn't motivates the players to do what it takes to win the division. Not good for his coaches or players.

Here's another loony Lewis moment courtesy of ProFootballWeekly....don't hyperventilate...its all quotes from Lewis's conference. I know nothing of Dustin Dow, but what got under Marvin's thin skin?

"MARVIN LEWIS GETS MAD AT “DISRESPECTFUL” REPORTER

Posted by Michael David Smith on December 17, 2008, 3:32 p.m.

With his worst season as Bengals head coach winding down, Marvin Lewis is getting testy.

Lewis had an exchange today with Cincinnati Enquirer reporter Dustin Dow in which he accused Dow of being “disrespectful” and suggested that the Enquirer ought to hire someone else to cover the Bengals.

It started when Dow asked Lewis, “If you guys finish this out winning three in a row, or even two of three, how much will it show that improvement has been made, versus covering up improvements that still need to be made?”

Lewis answered, “Oh, I don’t think it covers anything up that we feel interiorly, and that’s the only thing that matters. Dustin, all your angles and so forth, I’m going to ask other people questions because I really don’t like the angles you take in here each and every week.”

When Dow asked Lewis what was wrong with his question, Lewis answered, “I just think it’s disrespectful for what we’re doing. I really do. So I’ll tend to answer the other guys’ questions. Anything else?”

Dow pointed out that what he’s asking is important to the Bengals fans who read the paper, and Lewis show back, “What we’re trying to do is win football games. Maybe you should answer for them, because you seem to do that, anyway.”

As Dow started to reply, Lewis said, “I’m not going to get into a debate with you, buddy. All right? … I just told you I’m not going to answer your questions any more. All right? They might have to send somebody else over to do your job. All right?”

Bengals.com recorded the entire incident as:

“Q: If you guys finish this out winning three in a row, or even two of three, how much will it show that improvement has been made, versus covering up improvements that still need to be made?

ML: Oh, I don’t think it covers anything up that we feel interiorly, and that’s the only thing that matters. … I think your question is disrespectful for what we’re doing. I really do.”

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It sounds like a good questions. ML does not have to "like" the questions he is asked. F-ing win more than 2 games and then people won't ask the hard questions.

Disrespectful?

People respect hard work more than just straight winning. The product on the field in most of the games this year warrant no respect. None earned, none given.

Maybe they'll need to get someone in there to properly coach the team?

what a douche. I like that someone got under his skin. Once an opening is found, a good reporter will poke at it till it bleeds. Go Dustin!

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I know nothing of Dustin Dow, but what got under Marvin's thin skin?

Just guessing, but I'd say Marvin has had his fill of the local press corp and it's colorful collection of talentless hacks. Hobson, Ludwig, and Doc have always seemed to me like little more than three stooges who couldn't find comparable work anywhere else, and once you get past them you find yourself dealing with radio drecks the likes of Lance McAllister.

As for what actually got under Marvin's thin skin? Well how about the suggestion that winning football games aren't important at this point? That probably isn't the type of rant any head coach is going to embrace ever, is it?

Furthermore, Dow openly suggested a few meaningless wins might be enough to prevent the team from making any significant changes, a fairly popular fan rant, but hardly a realistic option for a head coach of a two-win football team.

Why any fan would care about how Lewis treats the press is beyond my understanding, but I do know this much. The Lance McAllisters and Chick Ludwigs of the world will care very much how one of their brothers is treated, and will soon offer their own packaged whinings about how they too were unfairly disrespected. And there's the rub because I'd say they were disrespected appropritately and fairly.

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How do you know all those guys work just as hard as they did back then?

Yup. As for an example, only a few weeks ago Lewis remarked about how little work Chad Johnson did this offseason, if in fact he managed to do any at all. Lewis said something to the effect that much of Chad's previous success was due to him outworking everyone as opposed to simply showing up and expecting the same levels of production.

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How do you know all those guys work just as hard as they did back then?

Yup. As for an example, only a few weeks ago Lewis remarked about how little work Chad Johnson did this offseason, if in fact he managed to do any at all. Lewis said something to the effect that much of Chad's previous success was due to him outworking everyone as opposed to simply showing up and expecting the same levels of production.

Just what I was about to say.

Chad went from sleeping in the film room at night after watching extra film, to sleeping in the film room during team meetings.

That's the change and it ripples on and off the field.

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I know nothing of Dustin Dow, but what got under Marvin's thin skin?

Just guessing, but I'd say Marvin has had his fill of the local press corp and it's colorful collection of talentless hacks. Hobson, Ludwig, and Doc have always seemed to me like little more than three stooges who couldn't find comparable work anywhere else, and once you get past them you find yourself dealing with radio drecks the likes of Lance McAllister.

As for what actually got under Marvin's thin skin? Well how about the suggestion that winning football games aren't important at this point? That probably isn't the type of rant any head coach is going to embrace ever, is it?

Furthermore, Dow openly suggested a few meaningless wins might be enough to prevent the team from making any significant changes, a fairly popular fan rant, but hardly a realistic option for a head coach of a two-win football team.

Why any fan would care about how Lewis treats the press is beyond my understanding, but I do know this much. The Lance McAllisters and Chick Ludwigs of the world will care very much how one of their brothers is treated, and will soon offer their own packaged whinings about how they too were unfairly disrespected. And there's the rub because I'd say they were disrespected appropritately and fairly.

Why should he be disrespected for asking a fair question? Could ask him why he feels he should return as coach!!!!! He is a joke he is arrogant and could care less about the people that pay for the stadium and his salary. Its a joke that you as a bengal fan would defend him.

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Why should he be disrespected for asking a fair question? Could ask him why he feels he should return as coach!!!!! He is a joke he is arrogant and could care less about the people that pay for the stadium and his salary. Its a joke that you as a bengal fan would defend him.

I'd ask him how in the hell can he be labeled a defensive "genius".

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Dow's question was asking Marvin if he thought 3 wins to end the season might "cover-up" the "amount" of change that needs to be made.

Considering the Bengals' history the question doesn't bother me, Marvin just isn't smart enough to handle it properly apparently. I can't imagine how he would ever do in NY, Philly etc.., where he gets 5 or 6 of those types of questions every press conference when you're losing a lot.

He took it personally for some reason, and thought Dow was "insulting" him, boo freakin hoo, it's a fair question we all wonder about and Marvin could've just said something like "I will still do whatever I have to, to make our team better, no matter how we finish, not an issue." And just not address the FO issues in any way, then move on.

Why is that so tough?

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Not sure why that prompted the hissy from Lewis either. It's a fair question...will the 2008 dead cat bounce cover up the real problems on this team and cause the team to pretend they don't exist?

That should have been an easy answer for Lewis. Something like "wins are important, and we are glad to win what we can, but, no, the problems that caused this season to tank after week 4 are apparent to everyone and will be addressed."

That would have been a good and fair answer to a fair question. Not sure why Lewis is being a toddler about this. That particular look is no better on him than it is on Chad Johnson...

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Not sure why that prompted the hissy from Lewis either.

Well, he has one about, what, once a month? Seriously, Lewis has never made any secret of the fact he considers dealing with the local ink-stained wretches to be one of -- if not the -- least welcome of his duties. As Ludwig notes in his mention of the brou-ha-ha:

David Elfin of The Washington Times once told me: “You haven’t arrived until Marvin Lewis either wakes you up with a phone call or calls you into his office.” Both have happened to me.

A better question than what promoted the hissy might be: how come it took several weeks for Dow to annoy Marvin? Sounds like he was lobbing too many softballs early on. :lol:

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According to both Dow and Lap, Marvin later gave a very "eloquent" answer....but I don't know how much later nor the substance of the answer.

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Neither guy is at fault. That intrepid reporter was just asking the question we all wish had a different answer. Mike Brown already came out and publicly embraced the status quo, so nothing Marvin can say will really change it.

And Marvin was just doing what coaches of bad football teams do. They get pissed off at everyone, and especially at the people asking the questions. Because at this point every questions probably sounds to Marvin something like, "You guys suck, don't you?"

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Dow was one a great beat writer for Xavier. If Marvin doesn't want him, maybe the paper can send him back to cover Xavier.

Marvin needs to grow up. He did a s**tty job this year, and he needs to be held accountable by the press and the fans. Sure it wasn't all his fault, but you take the credit when they win and get attacked when they fall.

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Dow was one a great beat writer for Xavier. If Marvin doesn't want him, maybe the paper can send him back to cover Xavier.

Marvin needs to grow up. He did a s**tty job this year, and he needs to be held accountable by the press and the fans. Sure it wasn't all his fault, but you take the credit when they win and get attacked when they fall.

I'm starting to wonder if either Brown or Lewis have a clue on what to do. Deer in the headlight condition? Both those two seemed to be locked together for the next 2 years, amazing as that is given the complete failure of both to even be mediocre. I'm starting to think that neither has the slightest idea on just winning 6 to 8 games next season.

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I'm starting to wonder if either Brown or Lewis have a clue on what to do.

Oh, I think Marvin definitely has a clue. In fact, he laid out thinking in that same interview. Basically, it's all about character. The '05 playoff team fell apart, Lewis maintains, because it had too many guys who weren't "screwed down" tight enough. And I certainly can't argue with that. According to Lewis, there are still too many loose screws on the Bengals. Hard to argue with that, either.

Now, you can argue that Lewis is overestimating the talent level of the team (and I think he is) but clearly his focus is on building a high-character team. Unfortunately, the owner is self-proclaimed "redeemer" who keeps dumping trash in his lap. It's tough to be an NFL head coach and at the same time friend, mentor and father-figure to a half a dozen or more overgrown problem children -- and that's especially true in an organization that's understaffed and fundamentally dysfunctional, like the Bengals.

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I'm starting to wonder if either Brown or Lewis have a clue on what to do.

Oh, I think Marvin definitely has a clue. In fact, he laid out thinking in that same interview. Basically, it's all about character. The '05 playoff team fell apart, Lewis maintains, because it had too many guys who weren't "screwed down" tight enough. And I certainly can't argue with that. According to Lewis, there are still too many loose screws on the Bengals. Hard to argue with that, either.

Now, you can argue that Lewis is overestimating the talent level of the team (and I think he is) but clearly his focus is on building a high-character team. Unfortunately, the owner is self-proclaimed "redeemer" who keeps dumping trash in his lap. It's tough to be an NFL head coach and at the same time friend, mentor and father-figure to a half a dozen or more overgrown problem children -- and that's especially true in an organization that's understaffed and fundamentally dysfunctional, like the Bengals.

We've heard so many reasons for lossing from the Bengals

1. Players trying to "do to much"

2. Players are "young"

3. Players are selfish

4. Players not staying in their lanes

5. Don't have Carson

6. Bad character

7. Injuries

8. Chad, TJ, Rudi are selfish

The reason they lose is obvious:

They don't draft well, in fact they have been ridiculously awful since 2004.

They don't manage their UFA well

They don't evalute talent like the winning teams, ie our trash is some janitor elsewhere. Our gold counts the days till they can leave.

This has been true for almost 2 decades.

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This has been true for almost 2 decades.

Right. So who does that suggest doesn't have a clue? The guy who got here 6 years ago and produced decent results up until this year, or the guy who has been drafting badly, fumbling free agency and ignoring character in player evaluation for those two decades?

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This has been true for almost 2 decades.

Right. So who does that suggest doesn't have a clue? The guy who got here 6 years ago and produced decent results up until this year, or the guy who has been drafting badly, fumbling free agency and ignoring character in player evaluation for those two decades?

17-33-1 I think is Marvin's record since 2005, the team that was superior in preparation to today's team. That alone shows the coach doesn't have a clue. Add to that his ever shifting reasons for failure without one of his reasons ever being "the one", or the second or third shows he's guessing. He doesn't know.

To contrast and see what happens when a team exchanges one coaching staff with a Marvin like record of failure with another coaching staff that had a clue, just look at what the Tuna has done in Miami. He drastically improved their record inside one year. Not so much with vastly improved personnel, he did it by hiring coaches that had a clue and coached last years 1-15 team into playoff contention in 2008.

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This has been true for almost 2 decades.

Right. So who does that suggest doesn't have a clue? The guy who got here 6 years ago and produced decent results up until this year, or the guy who has been drafting badly, fumbling free agency and ignoring character in player evaluation for those two decades?

Exactly.

Its all Dave Shula's fault. Either him or Corey Dillon.

^_^

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He took it personally for some reason, and thought Dow was "insulting" him, boo freakin hoo....

Ridiculous. Lewis isn't crying or asking for your own tears of sympathy. In fact, the opposite was true.

I'd say he burned Dow to the ground and then pissed on the ashes.

Unfair?

Well, that's a different question.

But for those of you who demand a humbled and contrite Marvin Lewis, well....good luck with that.

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According to both Dow and Lap, Marvin later gave a very "eloquent" answer....but I don't know how much later nor the substance of the answer.

Pretty much asked and answered the same questions immediately after the exchange with Dow....so it's not really a matter of Lewis refusing to address the potential impact of a so-called Dead Cat Bounce. More like a minor meltdown over the way the questions were asked, and that probably has as much to do with Dow's attitude and demeanor as anything else.

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