2024 Draft Talking Points

[AMPHAR]

Last year it was floated that the Bengals aren't going to use premium picks on Offensive tackles due to the increased difficulty in projecting College players at that position into the NFL.   That's why they shocked everyone and signed Brown.   If that theory wasn't complete Bullshit from the local scribes.  I'd expect the Bengals to entertain resigning Jonah Williams and if not taking whatever cap dollars they offered to him and go after a guy with NFL tape.

I don't think they want to risk a complete whiff with the first round pick.   Let's say Myles Murphy is not better than what he is today.  Yes, that's a bust.   But you can still get him enough snaps (without injury) in a rotation to come up with a couple sacks a year.    Unless there is injury, a bust at OT isn't helping them much at all.  See Jackson Carmen he's only helping if a starter goes down.  DE scenario holds true with CB, WR.   Snaps counts (without injury) are playing more guys at those positions.    Teams are routinely playing 3/4 DEs, 4/5 CBs or DBs.  4/5 WRs.

If that theory from last year just wasn't some draft coverage bullshit, I do not expect Bengals to draft OT with No. 1 pick.  Regardless of pre draft hype.  There is a strong likely hood there will be some CB, WR, DE with equal draft hype to any OT expected to be there when they pick.

For the record I would love the Alabama tackle.   But the reality is Jonah Williams was an ALL-WORLD tackle in his age group from the time he played pee-wee ball.   Most fans would call him a draft bust (I would disagree), but most fans would.   Same with Andre Smith (I would disagree).    Leatherwood was a bust but still a high pedigree lineman prior to his NFL days.   I don't expect the Bengals to venture down this path.

 

 

 

 

 

[HoosierCat]

I don't have any objection to re-signing Jonah, as long as the price is right and he's willing to come back. We will find out the answers to those questions in March. If they re-sign him or otherwise address tackle in FA, I wouldn't expect one in the first. If not, it has to be on the table, regardless of any trepidation they may feel.

Really, it won't be until after the FA smoke clears that we will have an idea of where to go with the early picks. Williams, Higgins, Reader and Boyd are the big names. I don't think you can let all four walk, and I don't think you can keep more than two. Just have to wait and see.

For the record I don't think there's any real evaluation issue other than that the Bengals suck at evaluating OL and have for a long time now. Their last above-average pick was who, Zeitler in 2012? Somehow other teams find linemen in the draft, just not them. I don't know what the problem is but I'd start with Tobin and the scouting staff. Whatever they are doing when it comes to evaluating OL, they need to tear it down and start over.

[AMPHAR]

I personally would steal an O-line scout from the Ravens.  Promote them as an assistant to Tobin or whatever.   Just going off perception they have found several good solid starters and their guys are hunted during Free Agency.    Then I would look at a new line coach.    Although the talents of Lamar Jackson extremely helps any running game. Fans can't be happy sitting around happy with 2/3 sacks a game and less than 4 YPC.

But ultimately if the local scribes have any credibility, I would expect the Bengals to be RT shopping or trying to extend Williams first.   

I think Callahan was asked this week about the lack of roll outs.  The response was Pittsburgh ends just want to kill the QB they won't care about the fake.    That's basically saying they have faith the front side of the defense is not going to get blocked so the damage Mixon could do is limited they don't have to worry about back side pursuit.  

Its the same issue for years.  Opposing defenses get away with rushing 4 and have too much success at getting home.  They play light boxes and still keep running game in check or non factor.   If some team rushes 4, then Joe should read a book 95% of the time.   Teams are never coming out of deep safety looks because the run game is 3 yards.    Why would any defense stop playing that way?

 

 

 

 

 

[HoosierCat]

On another note, the Bengals have several extra late-round comp picks this year. And it looks like they may need to use one on a punter. Again.

 

Quote

Brad Robbins may be running out of time to stave off another punting competition from the Bengals this offseason.

According to Puntalytics, Robbins ranks 30th leaguewide in punting expected points added, costing Cincinnati about 0.2 points per punt.

Robbins had a nice few-week stretch starting in October, but things have fallen back off to the low outputs he started his rookie season with. The raw numbers aren't much better: 33rd in average punt distance (44.5 yards), 27th in net yards (40.1), and 26th on punts inside the 20-yard line (12).

https://www.si.com/nfl/bengals/allbengals-insiders-plus/look-brad-robbins-ranks-among-nfls-worst-punters-as-search-for-consistency-continues

 

[AMPHAR]

Punter is horrible.  I'm a little surprised Simmons has rode with him this long.     Just from last week before the end of the half he kicked one that landed on the goal line and didn't give the coverage time to even attempt a downing inside the 5.    That turned around and gave Pitt momentum to attempt a end of half drive, came close to giving up points.    Down inside the 5 they probably draw in the reigns and play field position.    Very disappointing considering how much he was hyped up after the draft.

 

 

[ArmyBengal]

Just did a mock this morning to see what happened and got a heavy offensive draft.  At least through 4 rounds.

#13. JC Latham, OT, Alabama  (New starting RT since Jonah leaves)
#45. Donovan Jackson, OG, Ohio State  (New starting LG since Volson's regressing)
#77. Raheim Sanders, RB, Arkansas  (6'2, 240lb RB who is fast and can catch, but coming off injury)
#109. Johnny Wilson, WR, Florida State  (New starting WR since Tee leaves)

While I am well aware of the need on the other side of the ball, I really liked what was sitting on the board in these players.
Obviously in this scenario, DJ will need to be brought back and the team would need to work free agency for fillers.
With JaMarr's deal coming due, they face some real challenges.

[HoosierCat]

I can’t complain about back to back OL.

Only issue with RB and WR is we have a logjam of guys at both spots who they either can’t or won’t put on the field.

I know the coaching staff is preaching, we’re still it it, but no, you aren’t. We need a heavy dose of Brown, Jones, Iosivas, etc. here in these last few weeks so we can see what we have.

[ArmyBengal]

Nothing against Brown or the other guys at those spots and hope to see more of them, but we are going to lose players at those spots.
Iosivas is no Tee Higgins, so another big body guy (The 6'6 Wilson covers that) in the mid rounds would work for me.  Jones seems like Boyd's replacement to me.
That being said, I agree they both need to be getting more playing time at this point.

The big RB helps more with the loss of Perine in my opinion.  While I like Brown and want to see him get snaps as well, another RB will be needed.
This guy is fast for his size, can block and pass catch.  You don't see many big boy RB's these days and it wouldn't bother me to have one.
Mixon is heading into his last season as well, so there's that.

Again, I would have no issue if instead they took a DT, CB, TE or some other spot, but these were the guys staring me in the face.
Honestly, I think the team is going to end up with their hands full in replacing guys moving forward anyway.

I'm sure if I did the mock again, it would present something totally different again.  I was just curious more than anything.

GO JAGS !!!

[ArmyBengal]

Yep, did another one real quick and it was equally interesting.

Brock Bowers, TE, Georgia
Cooper Beebe, OG, Kansas State
Tyler Guyton, OT, Oklahoma
Kris Jenkins, DT, Michigan

A bunch of linemen for TJ and an elite TE prospect.
Yes please.

[HoosierCat]

Yeah, just did one at pff, figured just for fun I would rule out OL this time.

13. let the “Hey Kool-Aid” memes begin. Bengals do what they love to do and pick a corner in the first.

45. Ja’Tavion Sanders, TE, Texas. Not much help on the line but another weapon for Burrow.

77. Seriously considered Blake Cowan here, but decided no more Michigan running backs, they’re all done by the time the Wolverines get through with them. Went with DL McKinley Jackson. Could be talked into to something else.

 

[ArmyBengal]

I just think they are at another fork with the o-line as well.

Obviously, there's drama with Jonah.  While he has played well at RT, which I had no doubt of, I am not sure he wants to stay at RT.
Even if he did, he's going to want to get paid.  Not sure the Bengals will want to do that either.  Then there's what to do with Volson.
While everyone with the team seems to be of the mindset that he will continue to get better, I am no longer sold on that concept.

I say, fire Pollack, bring in a new o-line coach and let them start working on it.  Pollack has been given enough time and resources.
We can't keep doing the same thing waiting for it to get better.

The higher the Bengals pick gets, the more interesting the players available become.
Again, I just can't help but think there aren't many times where a team with an elite talent at QB is picking in the top 10.
Stick with Browning and keep this train rolling to that goal !!!

[TJJackson]

On 12/4/2023 at 3:47 PM, HoosierCat said:

figured just for fun I would rule out OL this time.

YOU BASTARD!

[HoosierCat]

So apparently I still have access behind the paywall at espn on my iPad, I guess it hasn’t registered that I dumped them yet. New mock from Matt Miller today:

Quote

18. Cincinnati Bengals (7-6)

Jer'Zhan Newton, DT, Illinois

Free agency will be huge in truly determining the Bengals' draft needs; wide receivers Tee Higgins and Tyler Boyd are currently set to hit the open market. We're operating here under the belief that at least one will be back in 2024. If it plays out that way, the Bengals can bypass receiver in this spot and grab the best interior defender in the class. Newton is slightly undersized at 6-foot-2 and 295 pounds, but he has a devastating first step and has used it to accumulate 16.5 sacks and 92 pressures over the past three seasons.

Works for me. For those who want to go in a different direction the next three picks are WR Xavier Worthy, CB Kalen King and OT JC Latham.

[HoosierCat]

While I’m there, Mel’s rankings, updated four days again.

Quarterbacks

1. Caleb Williams, USC
2. Drake Maye, North Carolina
3. Shedeur Sanders, Colorado
4. Jayden Daniels, LSU
5. J.J. McCarthy, Michigan
6. Michael Penix Jr., Washington
7. Carson Beck, Georgia
8. Bo Nix, Oregon
9. Michael Pratt, Tulane
10. Spencer Rattler, South Carolina

Running backs

1. Jonathon Brooks, Texas
2. Trey Benson, Florida State
3. Audric Estime, Notre Dame
4. Blake Corum, Michigan
5. MarShawn Lloyd, USC
6. Dillon Johnson, Washington
7. Braelon Allen, Wisconsin
8. Bucky Irving, Oregon
9. Donovan Edwards, Michigan
10. Ray Davis, Kentucky

Wide receivers

1. Marvin Harrison Jr., Ohio State
2. Rome Odunze, Washington
3. Malik Nabers, LSU
4. Keon Coleman, Florida State
5. Xavier Worthy, Texas
6. Brian Thomas Jr., LSU
7. Adonai Mitchell, Texas
8. Emeka Egbuka, Ohio State
9. Xavier Legette, South Carolina
10. Ladd McConkey, Georgia

Tight ends

1. Brock Bowers, Georgia
2. Ja'Tavion Sanders, Texas
3. Cade Stover, Ohio State
4. Luke Lachey, Iowa
5. Theo Johnson, Penn State
6. Mitchell Evans, Notre Dame
7. Tyler Warren, Penn State
8. Erick All, Iowa
9. Caden Prieskorn, Ole Miss
10. AJ Barner, Michigan

Fullbacks/H-backs

1. Bryson Nesbit, North Carolina
2. Ben Sinnott, Kansas State
3. Jaheim Bell, Florida State
4. JJ Pegues, Ole Miss
5. Jared Wiley, TCU
6. Dallin Holker, Colorado State
7. Rivaldo Fairweather, Auburn
8. Brant Kuithe, Utah
9. Trey Knox, South Carolina
10. Hayden Large, Iowa

Offensive tackles

1. Olu Fashanu, Penn State
2. Joe Alt, Notre Dame
3. Taliese Fuaga, Oregon State
4. Amarius Mims, Georgia
5. JC Latham, Alabama
6. Jordan Morgan, Arizona
7. Tyler Guyton, Oklahoma
8. Kingsley Suamataia, BYU
9. Patrick Paul, Houston
10. Javon Foster, Missouri

Guards

1. Troy Fautanu, Washington
2. Zak Zinter, Michigan
3. Christian Haynes, Connecticut
4. Cooper Beebe, Kansas State
5. Javion Cohen, Miami
6. Joshua Gray, Oregon State
7. Donovan Jackson, Ohio State
8. Christian Mahogany, Boston College
9. Dominick Puni, Kansas
10. Sataoa Laumea, Utah

Centers

1. Graham Barton, Duke
2. Sedrick Van Pran, Georgia
3. Zach Frazier, West Virginia
4. Jackson Powers-Johnson, Oregon
5. Matt Lee, Miami
6. Drake Nugent, Michigan
7. Tanor Bortolini, Wisconsin
8. Beaux Limmer, Arkansas
9. Dylan McMahon, NC State
10. Eli Cox, Kentucky

Defensive ends

1. Jared Verse, Florida State
2. JT Tuimoloau, Ohio State
3. Adisa Isaac, Penn State
4. Darius Robinson, Missouri
5. Mohamed Kamara, Colorado State
6. Brandon Dorlus, Oregon
7. Gabriel Murphy, UCLA
8. Justin Eboigbe, Alabama
9. Keith Randolph Jr., Illinois
10. Jack Sawyer, Ohio State

Defensive tackles

1. Jer'Zhan Newton, Illinois
2. T'Vondre Sweat, Texas
3. Leonard Taylor III, Miami
4. Kris Jenkins, Michigan
5. Braden Fiske, Florida State
6. Rylie Mills, Notre Dame
7. Tyleik Williams, Ohio State
8. McKinnley Jackson, Texas A&M
9. Byron Murphy II, Texas
10. Mekhi Wingo, LSU

Off-ball linebackers

1. Edgerrin Cooper, Texas A&M
2. Jeremiah Trotter Jr., Clemson
3. Deontae Lawson, Alabama
4. Jaylan Ford, Texas
5. Smael Mondon, Georgia
6. Cedric Gray, North Carolina
7. Junior Colson, Michigan
8. Tommy Eichenberg, Ohio State
9. Tyrice Knight, UTEP
10. Danny Stutsman, Oklahoma

Outside linebackers

1. Laiatu Latu, UCLA
2. Dallas Turner, Alabama
3. Chris Braswell, Alabama
4. Chop Robinson, Penn State
5. Jonah Elliss, Utah
6. Payton Wilson, NC State
7. Bralen Trice, Washington
8. Javon Solomon, Troy
9. Seth Coleman, Illinois
10. Jaylen Harrell, Michigan

Cornerbacks

1. Cooper DeJean, Iowa
2. Kool-Aid McKinstry, Alabama
3. Kamari Lassiter, Georgia
4. Nate Wiggins, Clemson
5. Terrion Arnold, Alabama
6. Quinyon Mitchell, Toledo
7. Denzel Burke, Ohio State
8. T.J. Tampa, Iowa State
9. Kalen King, Penn State
10. Josh Newton, TCU

Safeties

1. Kamren Kinchens, Miami
2. Tyler Nubin, Minnesota
3. Javon Bullard, Georgia
4. Jaylin Simpson, Auburn
5. James Williams, Miami
6. Tykee Smith, Georgia
7. Cole Bishop, Utah
8. Xavier Watts, Notre Dame
9. Calen Bullock, USC
10. Lathan Ransom, Ohio State

Kickers and Punters

1. Tory Taylor, Iowa (P)
2. Cam Little, Arkansas (K)
3. Austin McNamara, Texas Tech (P)
4. Will Reichard, Alabama (K)
5. Jack Bouwmeester, Utah (P)
6. Joshua Karty, Stanford (K)
7. Ryan Rehkow, BYU (P)
8. Jose Pizano, UNLV (K)
9. John Hoyland, Wyoming (K)
10. Spencer Shrader, Notre Dame (K)

 

[ArmyBengal]

Jer'Zhan Newton, DT, Illinois ??

Hell Yeah !!  Most would think he would be gone by the 18th pick.
He's a tad undersized, but when watching him play, that is not a problem for him.

Honestly, the Bengals could go in a few different directions and not be wrong, but DT is one of those directions for sure.
I'm firmly in Camp Newton, along with about a handful of others.

[TJJackson]

I would absolutely love a pass rushing DT, although I'd start Newton on a massive protein and lifting regimen the moment he's onboard. 

get him up to 305, at least

I think we can skip TE.   Install Hudson as the starter, let Irv walk, and re-sign Crazylegs to an incentive laden 2-3 year extension.  Get a developmental high-RAS specimen round 5 or later

ORT has to be a pick by round 3.  Has to be.

I think we lose Browning after next year - I mean, he's a probably a starter in this league, even with the limited dataset - so we need to pick up a developmental QB.

I'd like an OC for the remaining high pick.  No-knees Hill isnt gonna cut it.

related aside: can we bring in the Punt God for a look-see now that his trial is over and charges dropped?

[ArmyBengal]

Don't know if Browning is truly a starter in this league, but I've seen worse.  Especially this year.
That being said, since we control his rights for the 2024 season, I'm not as urgent on getting a backup QB in this draft.

TE might be able to wait with Hudson on board and his relationship with Burrow, but he's on a 1 year deal and going on 30.
I would still be good with a high upside TE we can lock in for the next 4-5 years with Burrow.

RT is a must since I see Jonah moving on.

I read about Araiza the other day as well and thought the same thing TJ.
Nothing to lose bringing him in at this point.  Nothing.

[TJJackson]

Need to get the new developmental QB groomed, so I'd say we draft him in 2024, rather than in 2025

I did not know Hudson was that old

[ArmyBengal]

Obviously, with us sitting in the 6th seed, our draft position changes.
ProFootball Network has us at #24 overall.  This is how it turned out for me today.

#24- Georgia, OT, Amarius Mims (6'7, 330lb, RT)
#53- Kansas St., OG, Cooper Beebe (One of the top Guards in the draft)
#86- LSU, DT, Maason Smith (6'5, 313lb)
#120- Florida St., WR, Johnny Wilson (6'6, 237lb, 4.5 speed?  YES)
 

[HoosierCat]

Obviously depends on how FA goes but in that scenario I lean toward Mims.

[ArmyBengal]

Yeah, free agency is going to obviously change lines of thought as this moves forward, but I like to speculate about what may be...
Mims is another one of those players that I would have next to zero concern with.
Trying to help the interior of the o-line would be a plus as well.

[AMPHAR]

Given the churn of bottom of the league QBs.   Jake Browning certainly can throw his hat in the ring as starting caliber QB.   I would say a highly limited starting QB but top 32? Sure, why not?  Bottom half of QBs, the league is going to churn through those guys at a high pace. 

I'd want the Bengals to get at least a top 150 pick in a trade.   IMO, he's the perfect back up right now.    Unfortunately Burrow was out the remainder of the 2024 season but Browning with his legs could easily bridge the gap for the rest of a game or 2 pending the opponent.   That's kinda what you need is a QB that can generate enough confidence it rally's the team.

RT?  I don't see the Bengals using a Round 1 or 2 pick on tackle based on what was stated last year.  If what was said last year wasn't complete crap, I would expect them to try to resign Williams but ultimately drop 7-10m in cap room on a starting RT via FA.

 

 

[HoosierCat]

Regarding drafting OL, I would say that line of thinking is crap, even if it is what some in the building believe. They can’t just decide not to draft a position based on it being too tough for their widdle brains to figure out. Again, if true, it sounds like a team making excuses for scouts and/or evaluation procedures that aren’t producing good recommendations. Just giving up isn’t the right answer here.

As an aside, of the four tackles taken in the first round last year, all but one had a higher PFF grade than Jonah. And the one that didn’t, Anton Harrison, only trailed by 5 points. So I question how tough projection actually is.

But anyhow, sure, give me a good vet RT. If they can find a Reiff type, great. But they are still going to have to spend a top pick on a guy to develop.

Re trading Jake, yeah, if someone is going to give you a second or conditional third or is willing to trade, say, a decent vet safety or TE or OL or DT, I definitely consider it. But I'm not sure anyone is going to make that level of an offer. If he is back next year I am good with that too.

[ArmyBengal]

This is why I want to see a change with Pollack.
Bring in someone capable working up a new guy.
That has been a struggle for them through the years.

I'm more than ok going after a RT in the 2nd or 3rd round.
Sooner rather than later in my opinion.

Even a guy like Mims if they need to in the first.
Then there are others like Jordon Morgan that should be there in the 2nd.
I'm sure there will be other options, but I haven't gotten that far down the draft yet.

[AMPHAR]

19 minutes ago, HoosierCat said:

Regarding drafting OL, I would say that line of thinking is crap, even if it is what some in the building believe. They can’t just decide not to draft a position based on it being too tough for their widdle brains to figure out. Again, if true, it sounds like a team making excuses for scouts and/or evaluation procedures that aren’t producing good recommendations. Just giving up isn’t the right answer here.

As an aside, of the four tackles taken in the first round last year, all but one had a higher PFF grade than Jonah. And the one that didn’t, Anton Harrison, only trailed by 5 points. So I question how tough projection actually is.

But anyhow, sure, give me a good vet RT. If they can find a Reiff type, great. But they are still going to have to spend a top pick on a guy to develop.

Re trading Jake, yeah, if someone is going to give you a second or conditional third or is willing to trade, say, a decent vet safety or TE or OL or DT, I definitely consider it. But I'm not sure anyone is going to make that level of an offer. If he is back next year I am good with that too.

I don't think its crap.   We'll see if its true or not.    The fact is they'll be starring at multiple players in the first two rounds with similar grades.   You recognize the difficulty in projecting a tackle from college.  Its a league wide issue there's plenty of average o-line like Jonah Williams getting drafted.    However, draft one high enough that can only be a back up then you've got problems.   NFL doesn't platoon OL and QBs very often.   They platoon every other positional group.   A Jackson Carmen, Smith, Hill sit around waiting for someone to get hurt or block PATs.    Myles Murphy, DJ Turner, DJ Ivey, Zach Carter are at least getting some snaps each week.