O-line Watch 2022

[HoosierCat]

1 hour ago, membengal said:

Not only that, but it is borderline inconceivable that the Chiefs would trade for him and then let him walk right away. They will at a minimum tag him. 

Yeah, it's good to remember that a lot of the guys we are talking about won't end up being available. Even Armstead could end up resigning. The Saints are in cap hell on paper but apparently they can create up to $100 million in space by restructuring contracts (this is far and away the highest amount of restructure potential league-wide).

That said, assuming they could work out the position issue Army mentioned, I would not complain a bit about OBjr.

[HoosierCat]

From pff’s article on most underrated FAs at each position:

Quote

OT: JOSEPH NOTEBOOM, LOS ANGELES RAMS

Noteboom should be on the radar for teams that desperately need a tackle but don't have the cap space to target one of the top options in free agency. He doesn’t have a wealth of experience at tackle, but the flashes he has shown the last two seasons, in particular, make him someone teams should target considering the low price he will command. 

Noteboom hardly played in his 2018 rookie campaign before starting at left guard in 2019 for the Rams. It was a rocky experience for Noteboom, who posted poor grades before a torn ACL and MCL in Week 6 cut his season short. However, he was seemingly reborn when he returned from those injuries. Noteboom moved to tackle to serve as Whitworth’s backup and has performed admirably in his stead the last two seasons, posting an 80.8 pass-block grade across 407 pass-block snaps at left tackle since 2020. Sean McVay’s offense does a good job of taking stress off the offensive line with a lower rate of true pass sets than other offenses, and that’s the kind of system Noteboom belongs in if he doesn’t re-sign with the Super Bowl champions. Chicago and Miami stand out as two possible candidates.

G: CONNOR WILLIAMS, DALLAS COWBOYS

Yes, I know — the penalties are an issue, as Williams committed an NFL-leading 17 penalties in 2021 that led to being benched for a short stretch during the season. Even with all of those plays baked into the PFF grading system, Williams still finished as a top-10 graded guard for the 2021 season (75.2) and has been one of the NFL’s 15-most valuable guards in back-to-back seasons. The penalties should regress in 2022, as they weren’t an issue before. He’s not going to be one of the five highest-paid guards in free agency and likely will receive something akin to a three-year, $20 million deal. However, it doesn’t matter the scheme, if a team needs a guard, it should pursue Williams over the much pricier options.

C: BEN JONES, TENNESSEE TITANS

Jones has consistently been a solid interior offensive lineman in the NFL, as he has never earned a PFF grade above 80.0 in his 10-year NFL career but has also never posted a grade lower than 70.0 outside of his 2012 rookie campaign. He's fared particularly well in recent years, finishing as one of the top five most valuable centers in each of the last three seasons. Tennessee is going to want Jones back, but it could easily get outbid by a team like the Cincinnati Bengals, who are rich in cap space and desperate to improve upfront.

 

[TJJackson]

to clarify: by "sat on their hands", I mean specifically regarding the opportunity to sign Moses at the point he became available

[membengal]

Because…they had already signed Reiff 

[ArmyBengal]

I could have been mistaken and I don’t have time at the moment, but I thought I read somewhere that Connor had an assload of penalties this year .

[HoosierCat]

5 minutes ago, ArmyBengal said:

I could have been mistaken and I don’t have time at the moment, but I thought I read somewhere that Connor had an assload of penalties this year .

You probably read it in the first line of that write up on him I posted three posts up :p :D :D

[ArmyBengal]

That’s funny Hoosier because I didn’t even read through. I just saw his name in all caps and it reminded me what I read. It was on PFF. Hilarious…

[HoosierCat]

In all seriousness I’m not too worried. He had 16 penalties combined in the three seasons before this, so this looks like a fluke.

[ArmyBengal]

His grade for the season was pretty good as well.

[AMPHAR]

After reading through:  I hope they at least  snag one of these 2018 draft class offensive lineman.  Seems like a lot of upside and entering their prime.  Most were good enough in their college careers to earn a top 100 selection.  Seems like a lot of NFL starts.  Checks the box of good building block at the biggest need. 

Corbett, Williams, Brown, Noteboom.  
 

Do it first day of FA, that way the biggest need doesn’t overshadow your off-season. 

[TJJackson]

i like the OC/G from Chicago who was the other OC option at the time we selected Price

[ShulaSteakhouse]

Someone like Connor Williams would be fine if they have to do that, but if they can shoot higher for just one guard, do it, and then draft one on day one as well. (I would not count on Carman for anything at this point, that's how you lose SB's and playoff games again, by "hoping" someone develops and you throw all your eggs in his basket).  At least give him legit competition again.

Here's what KC did after their line collapsed following the SB (from Yahoo sports), the Bengals' could very well do something similar, finding that stud OT veteran in his prime is a must right now, trade for him if you have to: (and let's keep in mind this team is 4th highest in cap space right now from what I recall - they can afford what they need to fix one position group):

1. Spent huge money on one of free agency’s top names with Joe Thuney at five years and $80 million. He responded with an 80.5 PFF grade (88.8 pass blocking), letting up just one sack on nearly 1,200 snaps.

2. Pulled off a blockbuster trade with the Ravens for left tackle Orlando Brown. They traded a first (31st overall), a third, a fourth and a 2022 fifth in exchange for Brown, a second and a sixth. Brown allowed four sacks, but had a 75.2 PFF grade and played more than 1,100 snaps as an upgrade.

3. Drafted Creed Humphrey in the second round and Trey Smith in the sixth. Humphrey had the potential to start as a rookie and did, earning a 91.4 PFF grade. Smith, a head-scratcher of a faller, predictably won a starting guard job and was solid over nearly 1,200 snaps with a 72.4 PFF grade.

[AMPHAR]

Carman and Reif were a bunch better than Hart and whoever was at RG the year before.    I’m not sure it’s a big of risk as “hoping”.   Look at how the above list of FAs started.  
 

Pass on what KC did,IMO.   They got passed by a team that spread improvements over the team, KC over corrected and it cost them.   Now they have some tough roster/cap moves to make.

Lets see how many pieces KC has to replace due to that guard contact.    I would love a shot at Brown or McKinnon.  

[ShulaSteakhouse]

20 hours ago, AMPHAR said:

Carman and Reif were a bunch better than Hart and whoever was at RG the year before.    I’m not sure it’s a big of risk as “hoping”.   Look at how the above list of FAs started.  
 

Pass on what KC did,IMO.   They got passed by a team that spread improvements over the team, KC over corrected and it cost them.   Now they have some tough roster/cap moves to make.

Lets see how many pieces KC has to replace due to that guard contact.    I would love a shot at Brown or McKinnon.  

 

More about the effort they made vs the money stuff.  They spared no expense, and when it comes to Burrow ending-up like Luck,  a similar effort should be made.  Make a plan to upgrade/phase out everyone on that line except maybe Carman and Jonah the next 2 years, and I assume Hopkins may be last to go, but they have to move on from him as well at some point, he's nothing special at all and getting old.

 

I am kind of liking this mock draft idea, with 2 OL in the first 3 rounds, and the CB in the 3rd:  Combine something like that with a big FA OT or G signing and some quality depth upgrades, and they should be ok, just have to get good rookies for once.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/bengals-ol-3-round-nfl-191017404.html

 

 

 

 

[TJJackson]

I think KC did exactly the right thing

One might claim the results (afc championship loss vs Superbowl win the year before) means this was not the right thing, but doing the right thing doesnt ever ensure a SuperBowl victory.....it only improves the chances

If we want to have more shots at this -- and I know we all do -- we have to keep New Guy upright and healthy, and we do that by limiting hits on QB, and we do that by improving the blocking, which starts with improving the OL

Since KC has a franchise QB ***and*** a top notch OL, they are in my mind a year ahead of us in terms of contending for the 2022 season league crown

I am cautiously optimistic here that even our incompetent FO can see the biggest glaring need going into 2022 - OL - and address it BOTH ways.  FA for the now needs, draft for the future needs.  in 2021, they drafted for now needs. Didnt work

(tho I am not going to call Carman or Smith busts at this point.  Carman in particular had good moments and showed he ***could*** be our ORG with more time/snaps and attention from Pollack.  He has for example plenty of power already.  Not enough was seen of Smith to really say anything)  

 

[Stripes]

KC spent a more significant proportion of their available resources than the Bengals will have to when it comes to upgrading the offensive line. They spent assets in trade and had a smaller portion of their cap space leftover (in a "futures" sense) after paying Patrick Mahomes. The Bengals have more time before Burrow joins the ranks of the QB super-contracts and more assets already in-hand that won't be immediately threatened by higher offensive line priority this offseason.

[AMPHAR]

On Luck.  He left when his line was top in the league.  His heart wasn’t in it after getting injured and paid.    The Colts spent a ton of O-line.   They used 8 top 150 picks.  Signed two former top 150.  They also had a 1st round tackle drafted the year before.  

Burrow doesn’t strike me as a guy that would quit IF his line was as good as Luck’s. 
 

Bengals are on a similar path.  They drafted 1 tackle first round before Burrow. Have drafted 2 top 150 OL. Signed 2 top 150 ad FA. 
 

Youth and injury was a factor with Colts ad they went from 25th ranked to 3rd ranked Luck’s last season.  He didn’t get sacked much his last year. 

 

 

[AMPHAR]

KC?  Results matter.  These two offseason paths met twice and Bengals prevailed twice.  
 

It’s only when goal posts are moved to making eliminating sacks the purpose other than winning.     The Bengals found a way to improve the line and team.  The Bengals were harmed greatly by an injury at RT. 
 

Over correcting can cause issues.  If the Bengals did the popular OL move they would have set this franchise back as Chase was a generational prospect and appears to be on that path.  Meanwhile Sewell wasn’t even the best tackle. 
 

The bengals over corrected targeting Ragnow and settling on Price with Lamar Jackson on the board.  Stupid. 
 

KC has tough roster decisions looming this and next offseason.   Don’t be surprised if the guard hits the market next year.  

[AMPHAR]

Misfire

[ArmyBengal]

I think it’s a challenge to look at another team and assume that had the Bengals done the same in years past, our situation would be different (for the better).

it may in fact have gone worse. Player fit, scheme, cap implications and a myriad of other considerations could equal different outcomes given one team’s situation over another.

Bottomline for me is that I firmly believe we have solid coaching and a front office that will be willing to address the o-line. Given the potential upgrades in free agency and our position in the draft, I’m very intrigued with how this is going to work out.

[ArmyBengal]

Additionally, the o-line did in fact grade out better this season when compared to 2020. Not that it was hard to do that, but that small improvement contributed to the team being within 2 minutes of a championship.

We don’t need to move into the top 3 in o-line rankings to see the needle move to a greater degree. Per PFF, the o-line graded out 2021 at #20. 

[TJJackson]

Im not asking for top 3, Army

I am asking for a huge reduction in hits (regardless of if they count as sacks) on New Guy

[Stripes]

Losing Reiff killed it. That dropped the line back down to bottom-five levels, and it probably amplified the problems at RG too.

[ArmyBengal]

8 hours ago, TJJackson said:

Im not asking for top 3, Army

I am asking for a huge reduction in hits (regardless of if they count as sacks) on New Guy

I wasn’t suggesting you or anyone else was TJ, although that would be freakin’ awesome…

I want what you want, what I believe everyone here wants. Not pointing at anyone with this, I’m merely suggesting I believe the needle will move regarding sacks, time for Burrow, and rankings this coming season.

I won’t revert back to woe is the Bengals when we’ve enjoyed two straight off seasons of record spending (including the o-line) which resulted in a Super Bowl appearance.

I think it’s really silly for anyone to suggest that had we done what (fill in a team) did, our results would have been better.

Lets see what free agency, the draft and cut downs bring. Believe me, if we don’t at least two new starters, I will be leading the anger charge.

[ArmyBengal]

6 hours ago, Stripes said:

Losing Reiff killed it. That dropped the line back down to bottom-five levels, and it probably amplified the problems at RG too.

Agree about Reiff, but that’s just it, the Bengals weren’t bottom 5. We were in fact closer to middle of the pack than we were bottom 5.

Yes the sacks made it appear that way and cost us in that last game, but again, they were literally an extra 2 seconds from bringing him the Lombardi with Chase wide open as Burrow went down.

Not suggesting you weren’t aware Stripes…