Week 9: Browns @ Bengals

[cincy9275]

Team is a reflection of its coaching staff. Nothing but a bunch of mistake prone pretenders. Got embarrassed yet again by a lesser Qb. Total embarrassment ... 

[ArmyBengal]

I didn't decide to stop watching the game yesterday because of Mike Brown's impact while facing the Browns.
Nor did Zac Taylor fill me with such irritation that Christmas shopping sounded like a better option.

It was, YET AGAIN this season, the failure of the players I was watching.
Throwing INT's after staring down a WR.  Not catching passes which hit them in the hands.  Not tackling. Leaving guys wide open.
The list of failures goes on and on and while game plan certainly should be considered, the players flat out sucked yesterday.
God forbid someone pass up the opportunity to bash anyone but the ones who actually, you know, touch the football during the game.

And I think my life sucks ass...  You guys must live in a constant state of shit and unhappiness.

[gregcook68]

13 hours ago, AMPHAR said:

Mike Brown has nothing to do with a franchise QB having bad placement on an out route that turns to pick 6.  
 

Quit excusing the poor play of these players and coaches via the Mike Brown crutch. 
 

They’ve proven a certain level of play this season and simply haven’t matched it two weeks in a row.  It’s on everyone in that lockeroom.  As soon as you let them point to the boogie man it’s over. 

He has EVERYTHING to do with ALL personnel!  I'll say it for the umpteenth time, coaches and players have changed over the last 30 years so if you want to continue to hang your hat on the revolving door of players for the problem of 30 years of disappointment then that's your choice!

Most everyone else blames poor drafting and poor HC choices. 

Last 20 years: Ravens 4 losing seasons, Patriots 2 losing seasons, Steelers 1 losing season. . . . Bengals 11 losing seasons

WHO does that responsibility fall on?

[gregcook68]

11 hours ago, AMPHAR said:

The hard truth for fans that want to blame only ZT or MB for the past two weeks or anytime this team loses is that IF that is truly the talent level of Higgins, Chase, Boyd, and Burrow then we might as well start drafting replacements because no sustained winning will be done with that many mistakes on the field and quite frankly its been a weakness all year but the volume of mistakes certainly increased in this game.

I like to think this is growing pains because that group has played at a higher level in the NFL against harder competition. 

I put the responsibility and accountability on MB for the last 30 years as owner with nothing to show for it.  Yes, you can't win a SB WITHOUT making the playoffs, but even if you MAKE the playoffs 5 years in a row, you can't WIN a SB without WINNING a playoff game!

They are still in the hunt and maybe they will MAKE the playoffs THIS year and WIN a playoff game and NOT shoot themselves in the foot!

That's what I'm HOPING for, but not expecting it so the 31st possible disappointment won't be as bad for me. 

[membengal]

22 hours ago, membengal said:

I got a bad feeling. 

Yeah. that. you just get a sense for the looming disasters sometimes. at least when you've been at this as long as we all have. 

[cincy9275]

2 hours ago, ArmyBengal said:

I didn't decide to stop watching the game yesterday because of Mike Brown's impact while facing the Browns.
Nor did Zac Taylor fill me with such irritation that Christmas shopping sounded like a better option.

It was, YET AGAIN this season, the failure of the players I was watching.
Throwing INT's after staring down a WR.  Not catching passes which hit them in the hands.  Not tackling. Leaving guys wide open.
The list of failures goes on and on and while game plan certainly should be considered, the players flat out sucked yesterday.
God forbid someone pass up the opportunity to bash anyone but the ones who actually, you know, touch the football during the game.

And I think my life sucks ass...  You guys must live in a constant state of shit and unhappiness.

Show when the player lack the basic fundamentals of football. Who's to blame? The guy who's job it is to make sure that doesn't happen? Zac and lou they fall back on Mike. The guy responsible for them being there. As for life sucking only on sundays. 

[ShulaSteakhouse]

5 hours ago, cincy9275 said:

Team is a reflection of its coaching staff. Nothing but a bunch of mistake prone pretenders. Got embarrassed yet again by a lesser Qb. Total embarrassment ... 

 

Taylor is now 11-29-1 I believe.  I realize at the moment they have a winning record, but if they end up with only say, 6-7 wins and a losing record again, I don't know how you keep this guy around.  That said, MB will likely cite "progress" and patience and re-sign him regardless.   I just don't see where this coaching staff is going to be a long term solution to building a playoff team.  Losing all these close games and then getting blown-out like that at home to Cleveland is just pathetic. 

 

[ArmyBengal]

There's a difference.  When a team doesn't produce, the coach is sooner or later going to pay the price with his job.
Mike Brown is responsible for hiring these guys and is also ultimately responsible.
I have at no point claimed to have liked either Mike Brown or Zac Taylor.  However, they don't play on Sundays.

Two weeks ago, you could hear most thinking Zac and Lou had turned the corner and that the fans just needed to give them time to get to that point.
Today it's how they are so outclassed they should have never been hired.  If it's never as good or bad as it appears, then where are we?
Oh yeah... Mike Brown.  I think this might the first time this season I've seen Mike Brown brought up. It's weak...

Burrow is a great QB.  GREAT.  However he has played some bad football and made poor decisions as of late.  Why can't we say that?
When the defense, which for the majority of the season was really good, plays poorly, we can't acknowledge that?
I was more than willing (and still do) call out the game plan for the Chicago loss.  It goes both ways.

Where I have changed is not letting it bother me much anymore.  I just find something more productive to do.
I suspect if they come out flat against the Raiders after the bye, the fans will let them know it in the following home games attendance.

 

[ArmyBengal]

46 minutes ago, cincy9275 said:

Show when the player lack the basic fundamentals of football. Who's to blame? The guy who's job it is to make sure that doesn't happen? Zac and lou they fall back on Mike. The guy responsible for them being there. As for life sucking only on sundays. 

When Burrow throws an interception that goes off the hands of a WR, who takes the blame?
Rarely, if ever, do you see anyone except the QB taking responsibility.
People take blame all the time, it's what leaders do.  It's doesn't make it truth in whose fault it really is though.

[gregcook68]

18 minutes ago, ArmyBengal said:

There's a difference.  When a team doesn't produce, the coach is sooner or later going to pay the price with his job.
Mike Brown is responsible for hiring these guys and is also ultimately responsible.
I have at no point claimed to have liked either Mike Brown or Zac Taylor.  However, they don't play on Sundays.

Two weeks ago, you could hear most thinking Zac and Lou had turned the corner and that the fans just needed to give them time to get to that point.
Today it's how they are so outclassed they should have never been hired.  If it's never as good or bad as it appears, then where are we?
Oh yeah... Mike Brown.  I think this might the first time this season I've seen Mike Brown brought up. It's weak...

Burrow is a great QB.  GREAT.  However he has played some bad football and made poor decisions as of late.  Why can't we say that?
When the defense, which for the majority of the season was really good, plays poorly, we can't acknowledge that?
I was more than willing (and still do) call out the game plan for the Chicago loss.  It goes both ways.

Where I have changed is not letting it bother me much anymore.  I just find something more productive to do.
I suspect if they come out flat against the Raiders after the bye, the fans will let them know it in the following home games attendance.

 

I agree with you Army. Yes, it's the players and coaches who are on the field and have the responsibility for the outcome.

But who HIRES them?  Don't you think, at some point, the law of averages would catch up with this franchise and they could eventually at least 'back' into a playoff win?

The Browns have had 3 owners, 9 GMs, 13 Head Coaches, 17 losing seasons in the last 20 years, 2 playoff wins in the last 30 years.

The Bengals have had 1 owner, 1 GM, 6 Head Coaches, 11 losing seasons in the last 20 years, 0 playoff wins in the last 30 years.

[HoosierCat]

52 minutes ago, gregcook68 said:

I agree with you Army. Yes, it's the players and coaches who are on the field and have the responsibility for the outcome.

But who HIRES them?  Don't you think, at some point, the law of averages would catch up with this franchise and they could eventually at least 'back' into a playoff win?

The Browns have had 3 owners, 9 GMs, 13 Head Coaches, 17 losing seasons in the last 20 years, 2 playoff wins in the last 30 years.

The Bengals have had 1 owner, 1 GM, 6 Head Coaches, 11 losing seasons in the last 20 years, 0 playoff wins in the last 30 years.

There are no Mike Brown defenders here, greg. Not much in the way of Katie, Troy or Duke Tobin fans, either. I think we all know where, over the long term, the trouble lies.

But if there's one thing we can't do anything about, it's ownership. Our only hope is that they somehow stumble into success.

And to be honest, I still like what the Katie/Troy/Duke triumverate did in the last offseason. I think they went about as all-out as you can expect this FO to go. Personally I thought that was to try and avoid the embarrassment of their hand-picked guy crashing and burning in the final year of his deal. And for a minute there it looked like it was working! Then teams caught up with them and now we seem to be right back where we started. 

[volcom69]

I think what everyone is saying here is we’re just tired of losing. Tired every year getting hopes up that this team will be good, and then they suck! For once the team plays awesome, we all get excited, the hopes raise, fans and players start talking, media crowns the Bengals a great team. Man that was fun, it was awesome, and I have not felt that for a long time here since 2015! 
 

Then we get the last two weeks, the team completely changes, they play flat for two weeks, they forget how to do the simple things in football, the QB is making bad choices, the WR can’t catch, the defense gives up over 30 points a game, they can’t tackle! The coaches game plans are terrible, his offense is so predictable, the defense flat out sucks! 
 

Needless to say my hopes are now gone, even if they start doing better, not sure I trust them just yet. Of course I’ll be here each week, but I’m not going to get to high on these guys just yet.

[ArmyBengal]

Sure Mike Brown hires them but he has no control what happens at that point.

During my time in healthcare I have hired many healthcare professionals. Doctors, nurses, PA’s, psychologists and more. When they do well, no points to me and says how great I did in hiring them. When they screw up, I have to reset expectations, retrain if appropriate and in some instances, remove them. However, is it my fault they screwed up simply because I hired them?

Agree with Hoosier that no one is singing Mike Brown’s accomplishments here. However, I just don’t lump him in when players and coaches fail to execute or game plan. I mean, what the hell does he know or do about it ??

[membengal]

quickly recalling why i had him on mute. 

[ArmyBengal]

The team is also 5-4 through 9 games and are still very capable of making at run at the division crown. Me thinking that is going to happen is another story.

[gregcook68]

1 hour ago, membengal said:

quickly recalling why i had him on mute. 

Had?  Go back. I'm bullet proof!

 

[gregcook68]

As a former Browns fan, when it was the only team in Ohio, and being a fan of Paul Brown back then, I think the Browns organization has embarrassed the Bengals, and to use a secular cliche, I bet Paul Brown is flipping in his grave!

All the ridicule that was given the Cleveland Clowns, Stains etc, and as haphazard as the franchise has been as evidenced below, yet in all that ineptness, they still have found a way to get 2 more playoff wins than the Bengals in the last 30 years.

So yeah, it's expect the worse and hope for the best!

No, I'm not a bandwagon fan and will NOT become a Browns fan, but outside of the family selling the franchise I see nothing changing.

Yes, I vent every year because I don't see how ALL the other owners have seemed to find a way to roll the dice and come up with the right coaches/player combo at least once!

The Browns have had 3 owners, 9 GMs, 13 Head Coaches, 17 losing seasons in the last 20 years, 2 playoff wins in the last 30 years.

The Bengals have had 1 owner, 1 GM, 6 Head Coaches, 11 losing seasons in the last 20 years, 0 playoff wins in the last 30 years.

 

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[Stripes]

Perhaps there are more meaningful metrics than just “playoff wins in the last 30 years”, especially in a discussion of what’s gone wrong over only two football games.

If the Bengals win a wild card playoff game this year and go no further, it will mean the following:

”No conference championship appearances in 34 years”

There’s always a biggest-possible-picture narrative available to complain until a Lombardi arrives. Even then, I guarantee there will be some “only one title in ~60 years”.

When it comes to the specific failings against the Jets and the Browns, any dialogue about the owner is going to be meaningless.

[gregcook68]

11 minutes ago, Stripes said:

Perhaps there are more meaningful metrics than just “playoff wins in the last 30 years”, especially in a discussion of what’s gone wrong over only two football games.

If the Bengals win a wild card playoff game this year and go no further, it will mean the following:

”No conference championship appearances in 34 years”

There’s always a biggest-possible-picture narrative available to complain until a Lombardi arrives. Even then, I guarantee there will be some “only one title in ~60 years”.

When it comes to the specific failings against the Jets and the Browns, any dialogue about the owner is going to be meaningless.

Those games are just small pieces of the 30.5 year pie.  You can paint with any brush you want and are entitled to your opinion.

I truly 'hope' I'm wrong, and it DOES get turned around.  IF/WHEN that day comes, with the same owner and GM, I'll gladly get in the back of the parade with my broom and pan and sweep up horse turds! 

[gregcook68]

18 minutes ago, Stripes said:

Perhaps there are more meaningful metrics than just “playoff wins in the last 30 years”, especially in a discussion of what’s gone wrong over only two football games.

If the Bengals win a wild card playoff game this year and go no further, it will mean the following:

”No conference championship appearances in 34 years”

There’s always a biggest-possible-picture narrative available to complain until a Lombardi arrives. Even then, I guarantee there will be some “only one title in ~60 years”.

When it comes to the specific failings against the Jets and the Browns, any dialogue about the owner is going to be meaningless.

How DO the other owners manage to put the right combo of coaches and players on the field at least for ONE season?

[TJJackson]

again - I love JaMarr to death but we simply did not do enough to bolster the OLine in the offseason.

too little was done in both the draft and in FA, especially the latter

the bigger mystery for me, tho, is why a defense that played so well the first few weeks is now so very ineffective, even against weak teams

[Stripes]

2 hours ago, gregcook68 said:

How DO the other owners manage to put the right combo of coaches and players on the field at least for ONE season?

They don’t. Winning a single playoff game doesn’t make a season “successful” unless one arbitrarily declares that to be the operating standard.

[ArmyBengal]

Not saying anyone has, but we also can’t forget there is another side of the ball. I would argue this organization has put more into trying to win in Burrow’s first two seasons than at any other point in the organizations history. I could be off, but I’m betting not by much.

[volcom69]

2 hours ago, ArmyBengal said:

Not saying anyone has, but we also can’t forget there is another side of the ball. I would argue this organization has put more into trying to win in Burrow’s first two seasons than at any other point in the organizations history. I could be off, but I’m betting not by much.

Yea like putting millions into this defense, that started pretty hot, but now has forgotten how to do the basic stuff. Not sure what’s going on with them, but hopefully they remember how to tackle after the bye. Still wondering why Lou does not blitz, he did that last year as well, the front four is not getting pressure, why not send some blitzes. I thought he did that against the Ravens and they were getting there. 
 

I like there skill guys on offense that they have Burrow, need to build that o-line more which they have failed to do since 2005. 
 

Hopefully it gets better after the bye, if not hopefully they all get better in the offseason and they build a better o-line, and continue to build a defense. Work in progress maybe? Who knows

[AMPHAR]

16 hours ago, gregcook68 said:

He has EVERYTHING to do with ALL personnel!  I'll say it for the umpteenth time, coaches and players have changed over the last 30 years so if you want to continue to hang your hat on the revolving door of players for the problem of 30 years of disappointment then that's your choice!

Most everyone else blames poor drafting and poor HC choices. 

Last 20 years: Ravens 4 losing seasons, Patriots 2 losing seasons, Steelers 1 losing season. . . . Bengals 11 losing seasons

WHO does that responsibility fall on?

Lame.  You are the only one trying to talk the last 30 years.  

Go start a thread about the 1991 season then.  

No one gives a shit about how many times you’ve said it.