General AFC North thread

[AMPHAR]

2 hours ago, COB said:

If the legal system is your baseline, you are forfeiting your chance to control the image and reputation of the NFL.

 

The NFL is an entertainment business, and billions of dollars are involved.  They are trying to grow interest in the game to women, not exclusively, but it’s important to them.  
 

The legal system is an inconsistent, unreliable measuring stick.  Watson is an example.  Mega rich, his lawyers got involved with the grand jury proceedings and killed the whole thing.  
 

The NFL is a business.  Turning your public image over to a bunch of 22 year olds, some of whom by their very nature are prone to violence, that’s just not a realistic strategy.  
 

You could be a PR nightmare, the worst person in the world to be representing a business, and still not break any laws.  

What exactly is the Watson situation right now?   They aren't avoiding PR nightmares they are actually fueling them. 

None of this has been found to be criminal activity AND it appears the accusers have a price to avoid civil trial.

Why did the NFL wade into these waters in the first place? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[COB]

1 hour ago, AMPHAR said:

Why did the NFL wade into these waters in the first place? 

I guess that, like all businesses, they are compelled to put rules in place for their employees, and then enforce those rules.

[HoosierCat]

The clown show continues.

 

[AMPHAR]

Lol@Browns fans.  But what a clown show, yeah more weeks of Watson talk. 
 

Some say this opens the door for Watson to play week 1.    Wonder how long the appeal will take?  Then Watson group have threatened lawsuit.  Doubt they win but could drag the process out further while he plays. 

[ArmyBengal]

The report was that during negotiations to try to settle, the league wanted nothing less than 12 games, which of course was not agreed upon. 

It wouldn’t surprise me to see the league bump the game up to either 8 or 10. Then of course Watson’s camp will probably drag it out.

While they wait, Goodell puts him in the bad guy list and the wait continues.

[membengal]

Watson has next to no chance at winning anything via suit. This process was collectively bargained. Period, full stop. The players agreed and ratified that Goodell or artibter would hear any appeals. No leg to stand on to appeal outside of the CBA. 

[ArmyBengal]

I find all of this pretty damn amusing.

Stupid Browns…

[HoosierCat]

10 hours ago, ArmyBengal said:

I find all of this pretty damn amusing.

Stupid Browns…

This is the bottom line. Fukkin’ idiots. They actively chose this, so no sympathy at all.

[AMPHAR]

17 hours ago, COB said:

I guess that, like all businesses, they are compelled to put rules in place for their employees, and then enforce those rules.

Watson still going to be an employee after this.   There will be another scandal probably in a year with another player.   It is like every year now.

How many drawn out legal fights does the league have to have to figure out what they are doing is largely ineffective given their stated goal of protecting the shield?

If they set their baseline at criminal behavior it removes a lot of the media attention and judgement.

The league is confused about public relations and those with agendas/causes using the popularity of the NFL to further their own causes.

Do you think any significant amount of NFL fans would drop the league because the league decided it would be hands off Watson because there are no criminal charges? 

[AMPHAR]

11 hours ago, membengal said:

Watson has next to no chance at winning anything via suit. This process was collectively bargained. Period, full stop. The players agreed and ratified that Goodell or artibter would hear any appeals. No leg to stand on to appeal outside of the CBA. 

True.   The NFLPA will unlikely get significant win for Watson.   They may/could get a minor win in changing a policy or frame future CBA negotiations.    They could also use the trial to air dirty laundry of the owners.

Most people think Goodell has to thread the needle to put on a show for PR and avoid a lawsuit. 

The immediate issue does the 6 game suspension go into effect why they hash all this out?   Florio seems to think it does because the Watson camp didn't appeal the 6 games.

Tom Brady and Zeke - played while they fought their suspensions.

 

 

[AMPHAR]

11 hours ago, ArmyBengal said:

I find all of this pretty damn amusing.

Stupid Browns…

Fuck the Browns.   But Goodell loves to lawyer.

I generally think the whole thing is stupid.    Go 1 of 2 directions.   Either  fight to make the policy strong enough to remove the player from the league quickly (for good)  OR set your policy so you have an easier way out like pointing to the fact in Watson case there will be no criminal charges and there isn't going to be a civil case. 

The media and fans that get on this moral outrage are fools, IMO.   If you truly think he is a sexual predator then WTF is the difference between 6 games with no fine and 12 games with a fine?

Real sexual predators go to prison and then most have to register because there is a strong belief that they aren't reformed.    As long as Watson can play football he will be apart of the league. 

[HoosierCat]

God-el comes out of this smelling like a rose. From his perspective this whole “process” has worked perfectly. The independent arbiter bit effectively floats a trial balloon, after which the Roger can adjust penalties (or not, as the case may be) to fit the leagues PR needs. In any event he’s the hero. 

[AMPHAR]

2 hours ago, HoosierCat said:

God-el comes out of this smelling like a rose. From his perspective this whole “process” has worked perfectly. The independent arbiter bit effectively floats a trial balloon, after which the Roger can adjust penalties (or not, as the case may be) to fit the leagues PR needs. In any event he’s the hero. 

Not really.   He has consistently lost power over the conduct policy.    The appointed judge already dinged his new procedures in her conclusion and put forth a punishment that reflects that.  Thus the appeal. 

He might avoid further trouble if the NFLPA doesn't take it up in court, if they do he could be losing more power under this policy down the road.

I'm sure if it goes to court either the public or the court itself will point out the owner's trash.

 

 

 

 

[HoosierCat]

God-el hasn’t lost any power. He can, as we are seeing right now, overrule the judge by filing an appeal that is ruled on…by him or his appointed lackey! All he’s done (smartly) is put a PR buffer between himself and the judgement that gives him an opportunity to gauge public reaction.

As to the courts, as mem has already pointed out, there’s nothing to go to court. Everything eventually comes back around to Roger, and I feel comfortable saying that he isn’t going to rule against himself.

[ArmyBengal]

Agree with Hoosier in that there are no other courses of action in this as Roger was always going to be the final approving authority.  The NFLPA can try all they like, but they might as well piss up a rope and hope not to get wet.

The more I read about this, the more I think Watson gets a year suspension.  While I personally feel that is more appropriate than 6 games with no fine, It really doesn't register with me.  I still can't get by the fact the Browns actually did this.  3 FIRST ROUND PICKS and gave a fully guaranteed contract.

That's next level stupid.

Kevin Costner must still be trying to make a splash up there in Cleveland.
Next thing you know, they will try to trade Watson back to Houston for their three first round picks back and David Godd*mn Putney just because they feel like it.

[AMPHAR]

52 minutes ago, HoosierCat said:

God-el hasn’t lost any power. He can, as we are seeing right now, overrule the judge by filing an appeal that is ruled on…by him or his appointed lackey! All he’s done (smartly) is put a PR buffer between himself and the judgement that gives him an opportunity to gauge public reaction.

As to the courts, as mem has already pointed out, there’s nothing to go to court. Everything eventually comes back around to Roger, and I feel comfortable saying that he isn’t going to rule against himself.

Yes he has.  

 

Quote

And in a major step, Goodell, who has been accused of wielding too much power, will cede authority to assess penalties to a new special counsel whom he will appoint. Goodell brushed aside calls for an independent arbitrator, however, and he will retain the authority to hear appeals by players and other league employees who are penalized.

The NFLPA could attempt to keep pushing him towards the independent arbitrator and keep adding checks to his authority.

 

[AMPHAR]

56 minutes ago, HoosierCat said:

As to the courts, as mem has already pointed out, there’s nothing to go to court. Everything eventually comes back around to Roger, and I feel comfortable saying that he isn’t going to rule against himself.

Mem was correct in terms of Watson winning.  A Watson "win" is unlikely.     The NFLPA can certainly go to court and maybe win a couple nuggets in regards to policy or set the stage for another revision down the road.   

The problems with the policy were already pointed out in Robinson's conclusion. 

The only way Roger would have come out smelling like a Rose is if the Judge would have leveled a punishment the NFL and public favored.  

[AMPHAR]

39 minutes ago, ArmyBengal said:

Agree with Hoosier in that there are no other courses of action in this as Roger was always going to be the final approving authority.  The NFLPA can try all they like, but they might as well piss up a rope and hope not to get wet.

The more I read about this, the more I think Watson gets a year suspension.  While I personally feel that is more appropriate than 6 games with no fine, It really doesn't register with me.  I still can't by the fact the Browns actually did this.  3 FIRST ROUND PICKS and gave a fully guaranteed contract.

That's next level stupid.

Kevin Costner must still be trying to make a splash up there in Cleveland.
Next thing you know, they will try to trade Watson back to Houston for their three first round picks and David ***damn Putney just because they feel like it.

Follow the years and the law suits players went through to get Unrestricted Free Agency.    It was gradual steps all the way with very little of those individual people ever getting a clear court victory.    Yet Unrestricted Free Agency arrived. 

His conduct policy is so unorganized and arbitrary they'll probably take a chance to chip away at it despite never winning anything for Watson.

 

 

 

 

[HoosierCat]

3 hours ago, AMPHAR said:

Yes he has.  

And in a major step, Goodell, who has been accused of wielding too much power, will cede authority to assess penalties to a new special counsel whom he will appoint.

Emphasis added. Yes, the Eye of Sauron has ceded power to the Mouth of Sauron!

[HoosierCat]

3 hours ago, AMPHAR said:

Mem was correct

Saved for posterity. Mem gets a W from Amphar.

[membengal]

I'll take it. 

[ArmyBengal]

I saw where Goodell got Peter Harvey, who is the New Jersey Attorney General, to make the final decision on Watson.  Apparently he was part of the team that worked with the league regarding Ezekiel Elliott's concerns.  I could be wrong, but I'm still betting more games are coming for Watson and maybe the whole season.

We will see...

[COB]

Goodell desperately trying to add legitimacy and gravitas to proceedings that are essentially contractually agreed upon employer discipline.  
 

First he uses that retired federal judge, now an Attorney General.  

Yes, only the most lofty legal minds can properly interpret the meaning of NFL players squeezing women’s asses at inappropriate moments, or shoving their schlongs in masseuses’ faces.  Get Oliver Wendell Holmes out of the grave, I heard a backup safety for the Raiders just copped a feel off a Denny’s waitress.  We need to run this one through the framework of Brown vs. Board of Education, and Marbury vs. Madison.  

[ArmyBengal]

43 minutes ago, COB said:

"Shoving Schlongs"

Is that a fantasy football team name ?

[AMPHAR]

Sue Robinson was jointly appointed by NFL and NFLPA.  She serves a term (can't remember length).

I think it just works Watson was the first up. 

This goes back to Goodell losing power under his conduct policy.  Prior he was all controlling.   Now he has to go through this step from a duly appointed person.   Then has to decide if he hears the appeal or another person. 

If the NFLPA sues he will probably lose more.  His procedure is a mess and largely ineffective.

I'm sure the NFLPA will keep taking chances to push until they get full arbitration at some point.

At some point you would think logically speaking someone would ask what the hell is going on - not enough proof for be charged, yet enough proof to be found guilty under the NFL policy that could cost him $$$$$.

Most people are emotional and don't care but that is screwed up.    Also people look at this as "Fuck the Browns", so do I, but a partial season suspension of a QB chips away at competitive balance.    It'd be nice if Bengals caught Brisset and Steelers/Ravens get Watson.

The Danger in "Fuck the Browns" attitude is simply no team is immune from character issues.   So eventually it will be some other team's turn.   Then your sitting their listening to holier than thou media while watching your season blow up.   Been there done that with Thurman and Henry.