Defensive Coaching Shakeup Coming?

[HoosierCat]

Not a lot of meat here but it does include the Bengals in speculation about teams making a change at DC. If there is a lot of turnover league-wide that’s probably bad news for us since the best prospects will have their choice of landing spots.

[AMPHAR]

Sweet Lou was like their 4th choice and his units can’t make critical stop, IF they could crazy as it sounds the Bengals would be fringe playoff.

So it wouldn’t be a shock. 

That said... nobody wanted the job before and the best players aren’t extended.  Who would take it? 
 

 

[ShulaSteakhouse]

$$$$$$

 

 

[COB]

Good for Jessie Bates.  Dude’s a straight up player, love watching him do his thing.  

[ShulaSteakhouse]

21 hours ago, COB said:

Good for Jessie Bates.  Dude’s a straight up player, love watching him do his thing.  

Burrow, Boyd, Bates, Higgins and Mixon seem to be their "core." No other top tier impact players, and Mixon's inclusion on that list is tenuous.  Could throw Jonah in there I guess, but he's largely been a non-factor so far any ways.

Will be interesting to see if they pay Bates or not, seeing that there aren't any other big contracts on that side of the ball now other than Atkins.

[AMPHAR]

The mix of the Bengals WR core is fools gold.   A bunch of quality WR that excel at the same thing and severe lack of elite speed.    Higgins clearly has the biggest upside and helps that he is on rookie deal.   Boyd, Tate (if they could trade one that would be good.)   There's a lack of separation.

Can't afford to lose Jackson, Lawson or Bates.  Any loss would require some luck to replace IF you don't use a top 50 pick or pay the required cap room anyway.

Jonah Williams - was stamping himself as a starting caliber player at a franchise spot, that is being proven difficult to find.    Have no idea now because of the injury.

If Mixon isn't on the field and if they aren't going to get him blocking it's wasted resources. 

To really get this thing out of the hole they need a bunch of draft picks OR a bunch of former drafted top 150 signed... however with Jackson, Lawson and Bates needing to be signed I'm not sure we'll see a repeat of last year's FA class.

With Burrow out you are seeing how good he was and how bare the talent is. 

 

[membengal]

You didn't just seriously equate Boyd with Tate, did you?

[AMPHAR]

18 minutes ago, membengal said:

You didn't just seriously equate Boyd with Tate, did you?

Nope.    They both fill similar types of routes and patterns.   The Bengals have a surplus at a skill set that would never be considered "franchise" value.

That's why it's been hard for the both of these guys to command snaps and targets at the same time unless the WR core is depleted via injury.

However Boyd counts nearly 19 mil of cap room the next two years and represents significant cap savings.    Tate has 1 year left. 

The Bengals need to recognize this surplus and turn one into draft capital. 

 

[membengal]

Quote

  They both fill similar types of routes and patterns

No. That is factually incorrect. Just, terrible analysis.

[AMPHAR]

35 minutes ago, membengal said:

No. That is factually incorrect. Just, terrible analysis.

lol, whatever Bill Walsh.   Please don't hide ALL your facts and white papers disputing an opinion.

There are very few games in which Tate and Boyd are 1/2 in snaps, targets, and catches.

The Bengals admitted they need to expand Tate's role.   Boyd complained about targets.  Tate's agent threw out a trade.

You don't need both.  Both can play.  Turn one into a draft pick.   

I understand you like to argue and are looking for a fight after another loss.  But come on Bill, do you need a pissing match that bad to argue a simple concept? 

 

[COB]

37 minutes ago, AMPHAR said:

 

The Bengals need to recognize this surplus and turn one into draft capital. 

 

Well they’ll get nothing or almost nothing for Auden Tate.  Which means to turn these guys into draft picks we’d have to trade Tyler Boyd.
 

 I say definitively no to trading Boyd.  He and Higgins are the present and future targets of our great young QB.  AJ is washed, we can’t afford to lose Boyd.

[AMPHAR]

22 hours ago, COB said:

Well they’ll get nothing or almost nothing for Auden Tate.  Which means to turn these guys into draft picks we’d have to trade Tyler Boyd.
 

 I say definitively no to trading Boyd.  He and Higgins are the present and future targets of our great young QB.  AJ is washed, we can’t afford to lose Boyd.

Got to do something.   Boyd and Tate are assets.   Both are not untouchable, IMO.

It's not impossible but highly unlikely this organization passes the division leaders in Burrow's rookie contract with their normal amount of picks.

IF they once again are aggressive in FA and retain key players then sure keep both.   Is that going to happen? 

[AMPHAR]

Defensive coaching?  Who?

One of Zac's targets Grantham that spurned him before, is going for college HC job.   But his last 3 stops of D-Coordinator (Georgia, Louisville, and Florida) all fan bases hate him. He just had trouble stopping freshman Tennessee QB this Saturday.

So does Zac know a decent D-coordinator to bring in and can he land a proven coordinator?

[membengal]

AMPHAR, what the actual fuck? Do you watch the games?

Auden Tate has ZERO burst, no short area quickness, and no ability to change direction suddenly. He is not a slot receiver like Boyd in the same way I am not Brad Pitt. Boyd is one of the very best in the NFL at his position. He is backed up by Alex Erickson (as you saw yesterday). Tate works on the outside only. Period. 

I seriously have no idea how you equate the two. Trading Boyd to free up the slot for Tate would be the dumbest thing I have ever seen. Even the Bengals wouldn't do that. Just fucking admit you were wrong and move on.

Tate is untouchable? Auden Tate? Not only is he not untouchable, I can't think he has any trade value to speak of. 

[AMPHAR]

38 minutes ago, membengal said:

AMPHAR, what the actual fuck? Do you watch the games?

Auden Tate has ZERO burst, no short area quickness, and no ability to change direction suddenly. He is not a slot receiver like Boyd in the same way I am not Brad Pitt. Boyd is one of the very best in the NFL at his position. He is backed up by Alex Erickson (as you saw yesterday). Tate works on the outside only. Period. 

I seriously have no idea how you equate the two. Trading Boyd to free up the slot for Tate would be the dumbest thing I have ever seen. Even the Bengals wouldn't do that. Just fucking admit you were wrong and move on.

Tate is untouchable? Auden Tate? Not only is he not untouchable, I can't think he has any trade value to speak of. 

lol.  Is your desire to argue that bad?   You literally created a point out of thin air.

I am not talking about pre snap positioning or slot receivers. The type of routes and the areas of the field they are used to attack are the same.

Do better.

Meanwhile it's the Bengals that admitted they need to expand Tate's role.  Tate has also produced and has film.  So that kinda says your full of shit of the assessment of talent.

Do you really need to get worked up about this?  It's a simple concept.  These guys are used to attack the same areas of the field.  They struggle to play them both.  That's become increasingly more difficult with the emergence of Higgins and the decline of AJ. 

Trade one.  Got other needs elsewhere.

 

 

 

[HoosierCat]

I highly doubt Tate has any trade value. No one is going to give up anything for a guy who has produced 760 yards and one TD in three seasons, and who is on the final year of his contract. I agree that if they aren’t going to play him, they should move on, especially with his cap hit set to be about $2.5 million next year, but at the end of the day I think he’ll just be released.

Note this assumes we’re stuck with Taylor for another year. If they surprise me and move on from him and his staff, all bets are off.

[AMPHAR]

I'd look to trade one.   Both can play, a QB like Burrow will elevate who ever is left.     The open spot needs to be filled with a player that can threaten vertically and gain separation at the line quickly.

Right now they have a bunch of guys that can play and their weaknesses and strengths overlap.

 

[membengal]

1 hour ago, AMPHAR said:

lol.  Is your desire to argue that bad?   You literally created a point out of thin air.

I am not talking about pre snap positioning or slot receivers. The type of routes and the areas of the field they are used to attack are the same.

Do better.

Meanwhile it's the Bengals that admitted they need to expand Tate's role.  Tate has also produced and has film.  So that kinda says your full of shit of the assessment of talent.

Do you really need to get worked up about this?  It's a simple concept.  These guys are used to attack the same areas of the field.  They struggle to play them both.  That's become increasingly more difficult with the emergence of Higgins and the decline of AJ. 

Trade one.  Got other needs elsewhere.

 

 

 

Jeebus you are one hard-headed mofo.

Getting more run for Tate was NOT to be at Boyd's expense. It was to be at AJ Green's expense. Tate is the back-up for Green. 

Tyler Boyd is one of the few things this team has done right - good draft pick, good development, and signed to a good second contract. He's got a rapport with Burrow that is obvious. He and Tate are not remotely redundant. They don't even play the same WR position, nor do they run remotely the same route tree. 

[AMPHAR]

2 hours ago, membengal said:

. , nor do they run remotely the same route tree. 

This is the only point worth responding because it's the only thing that deals with my overall point.   The rest is some sort of argument you want to have because you misunderstood this to be about alignment.

The above point is wrong.     Tate and Boyd both excel at routes at the same depth and same areas of the field.  There is redundancy.   

 

 

[membengal]

For fuckssake

[TJJackson]

just block him like i and others have

[COB]

I have been reading about the head coaching prospects.  Patrick Graham, the current DC for the Giants, seems to fit everything we need.  He’s a leader, has the respect of his players.  Our current guy may be a great guy, but the players don’t respect him.  Being a defensive coach, it also allows a search for the best and brightest offensive mind to work with Burrow.  He could be involved in that search.

 

Edit to add the following:   I want this guy because with Zac it’s not scheme related failure in my opinion.  He wasn’t ready, doesn’t have the status or gravitas, whatever it’s called, to lead a team through a rebuild.  The culture has deteriorated.  We need to fix that right now.  Patrick Graham does that.  Plus he’s fixed the Giants’ defense, we’d love to have that defense.  
 

Come on Mike, just pay Zac off and get moving, no point in dragging this out another season.  It didn’t work, move on.

[AMPHAR]

I'm not terribly excited about a defensive minded HC.    IMO,  the best thing they can do is Bill Callahan.

Make him Assistant Head Coach OR if it takes Head Coach then do it.    He's got all the leadership stuff and success.     Brian Callahan is a very accomplished offensive mind.   He's got Kubiak, Gruden, Manning in his resume etc.  Been associated with several top passing and team offenses.

Bill was on the short list of Zac the first time,  I think they got blocked by Washington.  He coached Zac at Nebraska.   Not sure how he ended up in Cleveland when let go by Washington.   He should be here.

Give that man a title that is promotion so they can hire him away and throw his ass some major money.    Let him choose a offensive line coach to oversee.   Throw him Sewell or let him scout him.   Decent FA guard.

Bring instant credibility to the biggest whipping boy on the team.  Offensive line.  Callahan has built league best lines.  Developed pro bowlers.   So it's hard for fans to argue with who is starting, drafted etc.   Instantly allows the organization to punch back against the narrative of ruining Joe Burrow.

 

 

 

[COB]

 

cj writes on that Giants DC.

[AMPHAR]

There's a big riff between the fans/local media and the team.     New Head Coach or the same Head Coach whatever the direction,  Turner can not be here next year.   On top of that they need new faces along that line.    The who, what, how and why doesn't matter anymore.   It's a self fulfilling prophecy now.      "WE told you line sucked"   "You ruined Burrow". 

Any coaching staff changes will be dead on arrival without nailing the offensive line this offseason.