General Free Agency Thread

[redsbengalsbucks]

9 hours ago, TJJackson said:

Chad?

sorry, didnt see your correction :O

autocorrect i guess

[AMPHAR]

Rookie pool has met its match and it is Steak Burrow.

Steak Burrow has flipped the power structure of the NFL offseason! 

[HoosierCat]

 

[TJJackson]

I'm happy about this, since the 1 year contract we offered for some odd reason would have been a case of him using us for a year

[AMC]

Woah

[Wraith]

Wow, yep not at that price.  Get us a serviceable ORG please

[TJJackson]

Wraith: Can you break down the number of snaps at each position played by year for

Slater

Turner

Warford

lets say going back to 2017, as applicable

[GapControl]

50 minutes ago, TJJackson said:

I'm happy about this, since the 1 year contract we offered for some odd reason would have been a case of him using us for a year

Yeah I was ok with trying him out after the injury year but 40 mill guaranteed no way-

[TJJackson]

Gap is here too :-)

awesome

[Passepartout]

Forty million too much indeed it seems!

[GapControl]

25 minutes ago, TJJackson said:

Gap is here too :-)

awesome

I’m always slinking around in the shadows here... like Mike Brown on the Chevy Lumina Used Parts forum... just staying in the know, biding my time 

[GapControl]

I’ve also got a 2 year old who has taken over ever waking moment ;) that’s been a killer.  I think I’ve met my match. 

[TJJackson]

hehe, having kids is one of the greattest experiences one can have

look, Pass is here too :-)

like the old days, but without DontPushMe :-)

[Wraith]

59 minutes ago, TJJackson said:

Wraith: Can you break down the number of snaps at each position played by year for

Slater

Turner

Warford

lets say going back to 2017, as applicable

Yes. yes I can.

I don't know if I am being too sensitive but that sounded an awful lot like a demand.  I have enough demands between my work and my family, I do not need any more.  If you would like me to do something for you, a please would be appreciated.

[ShulaSteakhouse]

Bengals' gonna draft Chase

[Wraith]

Yep.  Miami will take Sewell, we will take Chase.

[TJJackson]

6 hours ago, Wraith said:

Yes. yes I can.

I don't know if I am being too sensitive but that sounded an awful lot like a demand.  I have enough demands between my work and my family, I do not need any more.  If you would like me to do something for you, a please would be appreciated.

I did not intend it as a demand, but given that you took it that way despite my intent, I most certainly and sincerely apologize

I consider you a bud on here and I would never make a demand intentionally, except perhaps in jest

I simply dont have access to that data....I am guessing it is behind the paywall at PFF

You had produced similar data for wharton earlier this week, I think, so I was going off that

[ShulaSteakhouse]

Bengals' "in contact" with Trai Turner: (from 3/19)

https://www.si.com/nfl/bengals/news/bengals-have-been-in-contact-with-former-chargers-guard-trai-turner

 

 

[TJJackson]

theres a big problem with that article, Shula

they are basing the entire article on two things

1.  some guy named Malik Wright said the Bengals have been in contact with Trai.  That was it.  No dates, no details, nothing.  Just "they've been in contact" No other NFL or local sports reporter has verified this claim or made a similar statement themselves

2.  Turner did actually like (a twitter like) a fan tweet where the hashtag #WhoTrai was started, or at least was one of the first to tweet #WhoTrai.  So Trai Turner at least ackowleged that fans here want to see him in stripes

Beyond that, its been crickets. 

Heck, as far as I know, the other Bengals players arent reaching out to him either.  Ochocinco isnt reaching out to him either

in any case, I think that article is waaaaaaaaaaaY short on actual evidence, and really jumps the gun

so I kinda sorta find that article to be......useless clickbait.

[membengal]

TJ - Malik Wright clearly has inside source in the bengals front office -he tipped a LOT of what happened in this week in the hours before it went down. Most of us are following him. He hasn't missed.  

[membengal]

Relevant on 2 of the top remaining FA WRs still available:

 

[Wraith]

14 hours ago, TJJackson said:

I did not intend it as a demand, but given that you took it that way despite my intent, I most certainly and sincerely apologize

I consider you a bud on here and I would never make a demand intentionally, except perhaps in jest

I simply dont have access to that data....I am guessing it is behind the paywall at PFF

You had produced similar data for wharton earlier this week, I think, so I was going off that

We are all good TJ, just add a please and it won't seem like it was a request from my boss...I think that is what set me off.

On to the request.

 

Trai Turner:

The worry is that his play has declined steadily over the last four years.

in 2017 he had a respectable grade of 73.8 with run blocking and pass blocking grades over 70 (good not great).  That year he started 918 snaps all at RG

In 2018 his grade slipped a little to 67.9, still good pass blocking but his run blocking slipped below 60 for the first time in his career.  He also only played 762 snaps again all at RG

In 2019 his grades further slipped to 63.9, his run blocking was fairly consistently poor at 59.8 but his pass blocking took a dive below 70 for the first year in his career.  He played 888 snaps all at RG

In 2020 his play fell off a freaking cliff.  overall grading at 34.8 (worst starting graded veteran olineman in the NFL) with a pathetic run blocking grade of 29.8 and a pass blocking grade of 51.3.  He only played 536 snaps all at RG

His overall decline is indicative of a player who won on athletic ability early in his career but as age and injury has robbed him of athletic ability he has not been able to make the transition to winning by guile, experience and technique. I believe he would be a very dangerous signing.

 

Larry Warford:

Warford chose to sit out the 2020 season due to concerns about the COVID-19 pandemic.  I also suspect he needed the year for his body to heal from so many campaigns in the NFL.  Larry Warford will be 30 years old on July 18th of this year.

Previous to sitting out the 2020 season Warford had been a Pro Bowler each of the last seven seasons (2013 to 2019)

In 2017 he played 1085 snaps all at RG with an excellent pass blocking grade of 80.7 and a run blocking grade of 68.5

In 2018 , Warford played an astounding 1120 snaps (all at RG except one snap at RDE), he graded out at 67.3 with a still very good 76.8 pass blocking grade and an average 60.2 run blocking grade

In 2019, Warford 's play improved to 75.8 over all with good 71.4 pass blocking grade and a much improved 76.6 run blocking grade.  1,025 snaps all at RG.

 

Rashawn Slater:

Like Larry Warford and Penei Sewell, Rashawn Slater sat out the 2020 College Football season so we only have two years of grades to work from.

in 2018 as a redshirt Freshman, he started 1057 snaps all at RT.  He graded an overall grade of 76.6 while giving up 2 sacks and 15 hurries.

In 2019 as a Redshirt Sophomore, Slater started 795 snaps all at LT.  His grade bloomed to an even 90 (8th out of 435 graded tackles) while not allowing a single sack and only giving up four hurries (two to Chase Young)

Slater is generally graded between the 10th best and the 15th best player in the draft ( have only seen one grade in the top 10 - Daniel Jeremiah and he grades Slater as the 7th best prospect).  He is 6'3" and had an arm length of 32 7/8" at his pro day on March 9th.

 

Penei Sewell:

Sewell sat out 2020 so we only have two college seasons to work with.  Sewell was a five star recruit.  Penei Sewel is also very young, will not turn 21 until after the 2021 NFL Draft.

2018 as a true freshman, Sewell started at LT for the Oregon Ducks the last half of the season, playing 451 snaps (all at LT) and grading 84 (6th out of 337 graded Tackles in the NCAA) as an 18 year old.

2019, Sewell started all games for the Ducks at LT grading 95.8 (first out of 435 graded tackles).  He played 926 snaps as a true sophomore.

In his college career Sewel has given up 1 sack (2018 as a true freshman), 3 hits, and 11 total pressures in 1 and 1/2 seasons starting at LT.  He is the highest graded LT prospect in PFF history.  He is 6'6" and weighs 325 lbs.  Daniel Jeremiah has him graded as the 9th best prospect in the NFL draft, everyone else has him in the top 5.  We will not know Slater full measurements until Oregon's pro day on April 2nd.

 

In comparing Sewel to Slater it comes down to this.  Sewel is younger, taller, has longer arms and has out graded Slater in the two seasons they played a similar role.  Slater ran an outstanding 4.88/40 at his pro day (though all the Northwestern players had better than expected results which calls into question those scores), his tape shows that he is light on his feet, plays with great balance and technique but does not provide a great pop at initial contact and is not great at driving players off the line of scrimmage.  Regardless of his bench press numbers, on tape he shows a functional lack of strength.  Sewell on the other hand, lacks a little in technique, he was fooled and caught wrong footed against Utah a couple of times  in the PAC 12 Championship game in 2019 for example, but, also shows a massive initial punch, drives defenders off the ball, and in general looks like a man amoungst boys even though he is much younger than his opponents.

[TJJackson]

Thanks Wraith

I too have my concerns about Turner, but I am presuming the Bengals could evaluate him over those concerns by bringing him in and working him out - Pollack, Callahan, and the medical staff. 

If it turns out he's still injured and/or no longer is physically able and/or he no longer wishes to play professional football, so be it.  we're out the cost of plane fare and a meal or two, which is no biggie

If on the other hand hes good to go and wants to play, I still see him as a notable upgrade over what we have now at ORG, which is third stringers....and it is a plus he played all RG, which is exactly what we need

......

Now all that said, Warford might well be the better of the two.  To me, the injury and time off mean that the same thing needs to happen with Warford.....bring him in, evaluate him both for football and for health, feed him, and decide whether to make him an offer or send him home. Same deal, cost is just plane fare and a meal or two.  

He did have SERIOUS weight maintenance issues in NO and he will definitely have rust to shake off from not playing in 2020

As such, any contract with Warford would as a MUST have much of the money tied into weight and/or availability and/or performance clauses

.......

Bottom line is.....they are both risky prospects. 

But thats what we are down too since the Bengals absolutely shit the bed in terms of getting ANY of the better FA OLs in here....especially Zeitler.  The money the Ravens offered was easily matched and exceeded, and very reasonable

I dont think either of them will command a large contract, which in turn means we could potentially sign them both, as long as they agree they are willing to play either guard spot

Spain is also still available.  I think the Bengals understand that he is a 2nd stringer at best and despite the love for what he did for us last year, I think they see signing him as the last resort.  He's truly a LG, but he's already shown he's willing (and somewhat able) to play RG.  I love Spain as a guy, great personality and effort, but he's quality backup, not a starter.  If he's brought in as a backup, thats fine.  As a starter?  I got issues with that.

The Big Johnson (sometimes also known as Fred) and Adeniji could play some OG but neither were good there when they were tried.....both were much much better at OT.  In fact, Adeniji was in at ORG when "the Knee" happened, and he let his rusher through on that very same play, such that two big DLs hit Burrow almost at the same time.  You know the rest of the story.   I find it curious that the roster on Bengals.com lists Adeniji as a Guard when he is a tackle.  Weird.

Price has demonstrated that he can play OG at a sub-average level.  Still not a starting option in my book.  In any case, he probably will start the first few games at OC, as I dont believe Hopkins will be ready at the start of the season

Jordan......I never want to see Jordan on the field ever again, honestly, no matter how much they say he's improved in camp. 

That leaves.....Redmond (FA right now, but he'd sign on for min) and lets see.....Prince (who also sat out 2020 over Covid), and Sutherland.  Nuff said.

so to me, for ORG right now we have the following choices: Adeniji, Spain (I'm sure we can sign him), or a rookie.

Yeah, we got nothing

I like Adeniji as a OT, but not a OG; and I dont want to trust Burrows health to a rookie....even if it is Sewell or Slater....so to me the cupboard is as bare as bare gets

so we need a decent/average free agent ORG.......I think there is the potential that Wharton or Turner could be that and maybe a bit more

I have no freaking clue why there appears to be ZERO........just dead silence...... activity on these two names or any other average-ish OLs

This is absolutely THE number 1 need the Bengals have remaining in FA.  They need another 3-technique DT as well, but thats a distant second

[TJJackson]

5 hours ago, membengal said:

TJ - Malik Wright clearly has inside source in the bengals front office -he tipped a LOT of what happened in this week in the hours before it went down. Most of us are following him. He hasn't missed.  

I'm not feeling it

No other source has said any such thing, and they all have their contacts as well. 

and you can't really "miss" based on the barebones statement he made.

Further, he hasn't supplied even the smallest additional detail about said contact despite being asked several times to do so.

I know he has media credentials......he's very pushy about making sure everyone knows that he has media credentials

Bottom line is that I don't think very highly of this guy as a source, especially when he is the only one making a given statement, as he is here

[membengal]

You can be dismissive if you want, but I am telling you, he has called most of the shit that happened this week before it happened. Maybe you can trust me and others on our word that he's been clued in?