Time to begin the rebuild

[AMPHAR]

1 hour ago, cincyhokie said:

It’s almost like we’ll be talking about 2011-2015 in the 2020’s and 2030’s. Maybe the Bengals can be like the Reds and make multiple bobble head giveaways honoring those 5 straight one and done playoff loses.

Well we are talking about the 90s in 2019.    Plan B free agency was 1989.     Certainly seems reasonable to ignore the period of making playoffs 6 out of 7 years just so some fans can flog themselves over the impending doom.

Certainly when on a topic of rebuilding the current Cincinnati Bengals what happened under Lewis (a winning head coach) is more relevant than Bob Trumpy's rambling about Plan B free agency 30 years ago?  Maybe?

 

 

[cincyhokie]

1 hour ago, AMPHAR said:

Well we are talking about the 90s in 2019.    Plan B free agency was 1989.     Certainly seems reasonable to ignore the period of making playoffs 6 out of 7 years just so some fans can flog themselves over the impending doom.

Certainly when on a topic of rebuilding the current Cincinnati Bengals what happened under Lewis (a winning head coach) is more relevant than Bob Trumpy's rambling about Plan B free agency 30 years ago?  Maybe?

 

 

Maybe. But it doesn't look good when Tobin's top scouts are gone. Zimmer and Gruden. Who's going to help him out?

[HoosierCat]

44 minutes ago, cincyhokie said:

Maybe. But it doesn't look good when Tobin's top scouts are gone. Zimmer and Gruden. Who's going to help him out?

Why, their extensive scouting staff of course!

 

[AMPHAR]

4 hours ago, cincyhokie said:

Maybe. But it doesn't look good when Tobin's top scouts are gone. Zimmer and Gruden. Who's going to help him out?

That’s a relevant point.   Can Tobin recreate that run?   I have no idea.   

That’s a better discussion vs. trotting our Carson’s jaded ass that will never own his part of the 2010 team. 

[cincyhokie]

21 minutes ago, AMPHAR said:

That’s a relevant point.   Can Tobin recreate that run?   I have no idea.   

That’s a better discussion vs. trotting our Carson’s jaded ass that will never own his part of the 2010 team. 

I’m already buckled up for at least another 8-10 years lost. 2016 to at least 2024.

[membengal]

Great weekend just passed. Burrow and Tua looked amazing. Dolphins, Jets, and Falcons all won. Finley looked mediocre at best - less than mediocre at worst - so nothing there that will tempt anyone to push all their chips in on him. Full speed ahead to a top 2 pick and a chance to spin the QB wheel. 

[AMPHAR]

Vet QB market is going to be strong this offseason.    2nd round QB could be in play.    All you really need is 1 or 2 teams to land a vet QB and have them take that off their 1st round list.     In the current top 10 there's 4 teams I think that could have QB as a top need.   Being at 33 is key.

Of course,  it all depends on how impressive the QB class ends up grading out. 

Bengals are clearly in play for QB.  Would they considered a vet pick up?

Redskins? - Do they pull the plug on Haskins already?  Want to grab a vet to bridge?

Giants - I think they are locked in to their QB

Dolphins are clearly in play for QB

New York Jets - Do they dump on their young QB?  Vet bridge?

Cardinals are locked in

Broncos are clearly in play for a QB.  Vet?

Falcons are locked in they just gave Ryan a bunch of money and have a ton of dead cap

Tampa Buc - in play for QB

Chargers - in play for QB

 

[membengal]

They are out of their fucking minds if they hope a 2nd round QB is the answer. 

[AMPHAR]

19 minutes ago, membengal said:

They are out of their fucking minds if they hope a 2nd round QB is the answer. 

?????? This a supposedly talented and deep class of QBs.     Draft classes aren't created equal.    A player could easily slide this year that would have been a first rounder in a weak class last year.   

That's like the dumbest way to look at it. 

Then you factor in this is going to be a loaded Vet QB market.   Don't get that comment at all it's basically looking past the individual player and just judging talent based on round.

Lamar Jackson was 1 pick away from 2nd round because that was a deep and talented draft class.

 

 

[cincyhokie]

40 minutes ago, membengal said:

They are out of their fucking minds if they hope a 2nd round QB is the answer. 

Exactly.

If you are drafting 1st or 2nd and your GLARING need is QB, you better take the best QB on the board. Get your franchise QB.

[AMPHAR]

So Bengals grab Chase Young instead of Joe Burrow then grab a QB or OT with pick 33?     I call bullshit.   Motherfuckers would be doing cart wheels.

 

 

 

[membengal]

Not me. 

[AMPHAR]

25 minutes ago, membengal said:

Not me. 

Then you are  blind or stubborn.    Quick Illustration on how stupid that thinking is.     Needs are glaring all over the place for the Bengals.   QB, OT, Pass Rush.   You name it they need it.    Just as an example:

Chase Young has demonstrated enough in the college game to have people projecting him as the top overall pick.     He was 5 star recruit, offer sheet from everyone.    

Both Jake Fromm and Jacob Eason were 5 star, offer sheet from everyone.  Georgia landed both in back to back classes.  Both started for Georgia.  Eason lost the job because of Injury and transferred.  Eason was the number 1 QB of his class.   Fromm was the 3rd in his class.     Both have demonstrated enough at the college game to have 1st or 2nd round draft grades currently.    Both coming out were rated higher than Tua and Burrow.

Why is that significant?  

Because just these 2 QBs have always been rated higher than all 3 first round QBs last year.   Murray would have gone high to the Cardinals because of the head coach.    Very good chance both Eason and Fromm would have gone before Daniel Jones and DeWayne Haskins.

That is the talent that could be there in the 2nd and the only reason why they are 2nd round is because it's a loaded class.    Don't get this mixed up; high school and college are not the NFL it's just an example of how deep the QB draft class is.   It's become a perfect storm of highly recruited and high performance QBs from different highschool classes meshing into one NFL draft class because a lot of them transferred around      

[cincyhokie]

QB is the most impactful position on the field. It's also the Bengals biggest need. If you can get the best guy and it's your guy, you go and get him.

Could talent fall to the 2nd round? Sure. Is it a guarantee? No.

Can we be sure the Bengals wouldn't get jumped by other teams for who the Bengals see as "their guy"? Can you see a scenario where the Patriots trade back in to get Fromm ahead of the Bengals? Or take him outright at #32? Could you see a scenario where Pittsburgh falls in love with Eason and wants to replace both Rudolph and Roethelisburger...then trades up and takes him in front of the Bengals?

Do they really want to roll the dice when you don't know when you'll (and you hope to not) be drafting 1st or 2nd again?

The Bengals could take Burrow or Tua and it could not go well and it'll still be the best choice. There are a lot of people who are projecting those 2 way ahead of the others except for Herbert. Of course, that could all change with the next few months and the combine. But why go with someone in the 2nd if QB is your biggest hole and most important position?

[Wraith]

• You can be competitive with a hi avg to good QB - example Dalton, Brisset etc.
• QB is the riskiest position to pick high - too many examples to list
• As illustrated before this is a hugely deep QB class this year - Fromm, Eason, Jordan Love, and Jalen Hurts are all prospects that will likely drop to the 2nd or 3rd rd.
• The Bengals are many players away from being a winning franchise
• a dominant DLine and OLine is the quickest way to getting a team from bad to competitive - see Nelson, Quentin
• Next year is also going to be an impressive QB class
• There is a greater drop-off in DLine and OLine talent than QB
• You can trade the first pick in this draft for a freaking kings ransom and you need as much talent as you can get!

[Wraith]

7 minutes ago, cincyhokie said:

QB is the most impactful position on the field. It's also the Bengals biggest need. If you can get the best guy and it's your guy, you go and get him.

Could talent fall to the 2nd round? Sure. Is it a guarantee? No.

Can we be sure the Bengals wouldn't get jumped by other teams for who the Bengals see as "their guy"? Can you see a scenario where the Patriots trade back in to get Fromm ahead of the Bengals? Or take him outright at #32? Could you see a scenario where Pittsburgh falls in love with Eason and wants to replace both Rudolph and Roethelisburger...then trades up and takes him in front of the Bengals?

Do they really want to roll the dice when you don't know when you'll (and you hope to not) be drafting 1st or 2nd again?

The Bengals could take Burrow or Tua and it could not go well and it'll still be the best choice. There are a lot of people who are projecting those 2 way ahead of the others except for Herbert. Of course, that could all change with the next few months and the combine. But why go with someone in the 2nd if QB is your biggest hole and most important position?

I would argue that QB is the biggest hole in the roster....Offensive Tackle is the biggest hole in this roster.

[cincyhokie]

6 minutes ago, Wraith said:

• You can be competitive with a hi avg to good QB - example Dalton, Brisset etc.

Are we really looking to just be competitive? I'm kind of over that. We just had that with Dalton.

"Welllll...if we just get him the right pieces. If we can just improve the O line."

Screw that. This team needs a stud that can carry this team on his back when things don't go perfect or the roster isn't injury proof like 2015.

I want this team to roll the dice to try and get a QB that could eventually be the best QB in the NFL. That's how this game is won. That's how you create buzz and change culture. That's how you attract better FA's. This is a QB driven league.

[COB]

2 hours ago, cincyhokie said:

Exactly.

If you are drafting 1st or 2nd and your GLARING need is QB, you better take the best QB on the board. Get your franchise QB.

Of course.  You have to take a very talented QB.  Plus, we need one.  If they get pick one or two and don't get Tua, Burrow, or that other dude, I will drag my green chair out into the front yard and set it on fire. 

[cincyhokie]

3 minutes ago, Wraith said:

I would argue that QB is the biggest hole in the roster....Offensive Tackle is the biggest hole in this roster.

You've got a good one in Jonah Williams. 

And are you ok with Finley as QB?

[COB]

7 minutes ago, Wraith said:

• You can be competitive with a hi avg to good QB - example Dalton, Brisset etc.
• QB is the riskiest position to pick high - too many examples to list
• As illustrated before this is a hugely deep QB class this year - Fromm, Eason, Jordan Love, and Jalen Hurts are all prospects that will likely drop to the 2nd or 3rd rd.
• The Bengals are many players away from being a winning franchise
• a dominant DLine and OLine is the quickest way to getting a team from bad to competitive - see Nelson, Quentin
• Next year is also going to be an impressive QB class
• There is a greater drop-off in DLine and OLine talent than QB
• You can trade the first pick in this draft for a freaking kings ransom and you need as much talent as you can get!

Tempted to agree with all this.  This thinking is satan wriggling into our minds.  Stay strong Bengals front office!  Lantern-jawed gunslinger available at pick number 1!  Go get him!

[COB]

4 minutes ago, cincyhokie said:

I want this team to roll the dice to try and get a QB that could eventually be the best QB in the NFL. That's how this game is won. That's how you create buzz and change culture. That's how you attract better FA's. This is a QB driven league.

Almost certain that our new offensive savant head coach gets his own toy at QB.  That's what benching Dalton was all about.  They'll go QB.  

[cincyhokie]

1 minute ago, COB said:

Almost certain that our new offensive savant head coach gets his own toy at QB.  That's what benching Dalton was all about.  They'll go QB.  

Yes! I don't want a project. I don't want someone that has to fit a system. I don't want someone with a "high ceiling". I want them to get a QB that is a game changer and that doesn't give a shit. Tough. Confident. A leader. Like Burrow. This team needs a strong personality. When I see Burrow, I kind of see Jim Kelly. 

[COB]

"This league has a problem with the mathematical issue that only half the teams are going to win. That doesn't mean everyone else is incompetent or bad." - Mike, 2012.

So we may or may not be getting a rebuild.  This whole thing is mainly a mathematical issue. 

[cincyhokie]

5 minutes ago, COB said:

"This league has a problem with the mathematical issue that only half the teams are going to win. That doesn't mean everyone else is incompetent or bad." - Mike, 2012.

So we may or may not be getting a rebuild.  This whole thing is mainly a mathematical issue. 

This is classic!

[AMPHAR]

46 minutes ago, cincyhokie said:

QB is the most impactful position on the field. It's also the Bengals biggest need. If you can get the best guy and it's your guy, you go and get him.

Could talent fall to the 2nd round? Sure. Is it a guarantee? No.

Can we be sure the Bengals wouldn't get jumped by other teams for who the Bengals see as "their guy"? Can you see a scenario where the Patriots trade back in to get Fromm ahead of the Bengals? Or take him outright at #32? Could you see a scenario where Pittsburgh falls in love with Eason and wants to replace both Rudolph and Roethelisburger...then trades up and takes him in front of the Bengals?

Do they really want to roll the dice when you don't know when you'll (and you hope to not) be drafting 1st or 2nd again?

The Bengals could take Burrow or Tua and it could not go well and it'll still be the best choice. There are a lot of people who are projecting those 2 way ahead of the others except for Herbert. Of course, that could all change with the next few months and the combine. But why go with someone in the 2nd if QB is your biggest hole and most important position?

Eh, take a step back.    I’m not against taking QB No.1.  So let’s not get that twisted.

There is a good chance a good QB is sitting there in round 2.  What was said about them being out of their fucking minds for 2nd round QB is fucking stupid.

Because the QBs that could be there probably would have first rounders last year and in a normal year. 

The gap between Tua and Burrow and the rest isn’t even close to being finalized. 

This situation has occurred because you have multiple highly ranked QBs converging into 1 NFL draft class because of college transfers.