COB Posted March 2, 2017 Report Share Posted March 2, 2017 1 hour ago, AMPHAR said: This day was coming. The next generation of line was always going to be in question. This day WAS coming. It's been coming since August 5th, 2011. Here's fair warning that I'm about to sound like a broken record. They signed the new CBA on Aug. 5, 2011. I believe that Mike sees that CBA as pretty much a set of instructions on how to handle salaries. Specifically, there are certain positions that will likely be filled by guys on their first, very price-controlled, deal. If those positions are filled by guys on their second, un price-controlled, deals, be assured that the player will be very average and paid accordingly. Mike's always had this paradigm of valuing certain positions over others, the CBA just gave him a tool to memorialize it. Tackles and receivers can get huge money. Guards, centers, and safeties? Nope. My belief is that Mike, being a really smart person, will never slavishly follow his own rule just to spite himself. By that I mean if he stumbles upon an incredible player at one of his less desirable positions, he'll cough it up. Best example I can think of is Geno. But I believe, based on years of watching Mike work, that Peko is much more of Mike's prototype for that position in regards to performance and the resulting compensation. Gotta save all that money so we can pay our gunslinger!* *Bengals management makes no warranty regarding current, un-lantern-jawed, model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMPHAR Posted March 2, 2017 Report Share Posted March 2, 2017 Tobin isn't turning down GM interviews just so he can conform to Mike Brown's view of the world. From a fan's perspective the line has always been coached by a goof that was forced on Marvin. In addition, always seems to have an interior player that clubs baby seals in his spare time when he isn't being the worst in the world at his position of football. Now I don't know how true any of that is. But, shit really hit the fan when they found true incompetence at Right Tackle. I remember shit hitting the fan when they had Rod Jones at LT, lol. If you think about Roland, Collins, Andrews, and sometimes Moobs. That's how decent those guys were and how freakin bad Oooogie was. Hell even NEWHOUSE wasn't as bad, NEWHOUSE! OMG! An argument can be made that they could pay KZ 100 mil a game and it won't mean shit IF the Ooogie and Fisher we know are lined up at tackles. IMO, it all starts with getting Whit back in the fold. Then finding stability at RT. This will sound like typical Bengal fan rationalization IF you get those two things then you can certainly pass on KZ at 8-11 mil a year. Then you got hope Fisher and Ooogie improve and earn spots down the line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted March 2, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2017 Heh, yeah, good ol' Rod "Screen Door" Jones. Those were the days... Even if Whit re-signs I'm betting the line is a mess next year, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmyBengal Posted March 3, 2017 Report Share Posted March 3, 2017 Again, why spend a first round pick on a position you see no worth in retaining in 4 years ?? I get not wanting to tag Z at over 14 million for the season, but c'mon. The Chiefs handed out a 5 year extension to their OG this year paying him as one of the best in the league. Cost ?? 8.25 million per year. With over 40 million in cap space, that's not doable ?? Play with the structure, push money, whatever. However, you don't let your 1st round, pro bowl level, OG walk out the door. I know the lure of that elusive 3rd round comp pick the following year is almost too good to pass up, but d*mn. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMPHAR Posted March 3, 2017 Report Share Posted March 3, 2017 2 hours ago, ArmyBengal said: Again, why spend a first round pick on a position you see no worth in retaining in 4 years ?? I get not wanting to tag Z at over 14 million for the season, but c'mon. The Chiefs handed out a 5 year extension to their OG this year paying him as one of the best in the league. Cost ?? 8.25 million per year. With over 40 million in cap space, that's not doable ?? Play with the structure, push money, whatever. However, you don't let your 1st round, pro bowl level, OG walk out the door. I know the lure of that elusive 3rd round comp pick the following year is almost too good to pass up, but d*mn. KZ isn't playing ball at 8 mil a year for the Bengals most likely. It's going to end up like a Jones and Sanu situation most likely. IMO, those loses sucked at the time but production was replaced rather easily and their future cap hits are 7 and 8 mil. RG will be hard to measure but KZ didn't stop the hole a RT from being a negative factor it was. You can pay him 100 mil a game and if they don't have LT and RT figured out it won't matter. That's exactly what we saw last season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmyBengal Posted March 3, 2017 Report Share Posted March 3, 2017 1 hour ago, AMPHAR said: KZ isn't playing ball at 8 mil a year for the Bengals most likely. If the contract puts him in the top of the league category, why wouldn't he ?? If that dude got 8.25 average and we pay KZ 8.5-8.75, you don't think he would go there ?? The Bengals could certainly do that. As always, that would require him "wanting" to be here, which he may not want to do anyway. I cannot account for that obviously. 1 hour ago, AMPHAR said: RG will be hard to measure but KZ didn't stop the hole a RT from being a negative factor it was. Probably because he was too busy helping Bodine not look worse than he already does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMPHAR Posted March 3, 2017 Report Share Posted March 3, 2017 46 minutes ago, ArmyBengal said: If the contract puts him in the top of the league category, why wouldn't he ?? If that dude got 8.25 average and we pay KZ 8.5-8.75, you don't think he would go there ?? The Bengals could certainly do that. As always, that would require him "wanting" to be here, which he may not want to do anyway. I cannot account for that obviously. Probably because he was too busy helping Bodine not look worse than he already does. This is a tough discussion because I would love to have KZ back. However he isn't going to get an 8 mil a year contract (just guessing). If that's the price there's a good chance the Bengals already would have him signed because they negotiated up until September (never saw numbers but they paid him 8 mil last year no problem). He will challenge the DeCastro, Yanda, and Osemele contracts that are 9,10 and 11.7 mil a year averages. Now, I would love to have him back but he hasn't earned honors like those guys and there's a good chance he's in the 10 mil+ range and I wouldn't rule out 12 mil given the size of cap room across the league. KZ gambled and it's going to pay off for him. His Free Agency is going to look like Jones and Sanu getting contracts most would have thought to be unlikely. This will sound like rationalization but I think it's true. The Bengals replaced the production of Jones and Sanu at way cheaper cap hits and I think it's entirely possible to improve your line by leaps and bounds over 2016 without a 10 mil+ guard, BUT you have to fix Right Tackle and not let Left tackle become a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmyBengal Posted March 3, 2017 Report Share Posted March 3, 2017 Funny you brought up Sanu and Jones, I was looking up comparisons from 2015 to 2016. In 2015 Jones/Sanu/Eifert put up 150 receptions for 1825 yards and 17 TD's. In 2016 LaFell/Boyd/Eifert put up 147 receptions for 1858 yards and 12 TD's. Pretty close, but Eifert only played in 8 games in 2016, so those numbers could have been better. That means LaFell and Boyd really put up decent numbers. Jones and Sanu had more catches for more yards, but not by much. Thing is, I wouldn't use that as a measuring stick for what the possible results would be in KZ leaving. I think how much help (even though it may appear to be little) he had to give both Bodine and the RT is underestimated. In comparison, the Steelers (yeah I know) have invested in the high round o-line picks. It's just a different philosophy, but I think it's a better comparison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted March 4, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2017 The issue of not paying a guy even if he has earned it because of some "value of the position" is an old, old one. For example, I remember back in the 90s a Bengals safety signed with another team. I want to say it was Sam Shade in DC. Asked about the deal he got, MB said something to the effect he'd only pay that for the player and his twin brother. The core of the issue to me is the corrosive effect on player morale and effort. If you play at a position they don't value, you're just marking time to FA. I can't help but think that hurts play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted March 4, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2017 Say farewell to Dre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COB Posted March 5, 2017 Report Share Posted March 5, 2017 On 3/4/2017 at 9:03 AM, HoosierCat said: Say farewell to Dre. Agreed, he's probably gone. Presumably the 2nd year guy can step in and do the job he was drafted to do. Tough to tell, though, seeing as how he was hurt his whole rookie year, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShulaSteakhouse Posted March 6, 2017 Report Share Posted March 6, 2017 Still no Franchise Tag? (haven't heard anything recently) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted March 6, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2017 Tag deadline was Wednesday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMPHAR Posted March 7, 2017 Report Share Posted March 7, 2017 Mike Glennon of back up QB for Tampa Bay fame is supposedly going to get 14-15 mil a year, lol. Just save your cash and take less risk and send your first rounder to the Bengals for AJ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmyBengal Posted March 7, 2017 Report Share Posted March 7, 2017 I hear a lot about how much they value McCarron (and they should) but they also valued Driskel enough to carry him on the active roster. Why wouldn't they take a decent deal for McCarron when you know they obviously felt that positive about Driskel ?? While I would hold out hope for a first round pick, a deal netting an additional 2nd and 3rd would be nothing to turn your nose up at. Turning a 5th round pick into that would have to be viewed as a win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted March 7, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2017 And so it begins: the "legal tampering" period has begun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted March 7, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2017 Hobson wrote this yesterday: Quote The Bengals’ run-up to free agency has mirrored the recent past as they talk to their players in an attempt to nail down contracts and it’s going down to the last minute, which in this case is noon Tuesday. Translation now that the pre-FA period has opened: they failed to get anyone to take a hometown discount. Oh... Quote The list mostly likely starts with Pro Bowl left tackle Andrew Whitworth, includes the rising stocks of cornerback Dre Kirkpatrick and right guard Kevin Zeitler, probably wide receiver Brandon LaFelland running back Rex Burkhead off last season’s strong second-half performances, and nose tackle Domata Peko in what looks to be a new role as mentor for Andrew Billings. Can't keep one the leagues top guards but they can find money for one of its crappiest DTs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottishbengal Posted March 7, 2017 Report Share Posted March 7, 2017 http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000791016/article/ravens-ricky-wagner-set-to-blow-the-lid-off-rt-market So it could be between $6m and $8m a year for Zeitler according to what is being touted in the article for Wagner ......why the hell can't we compete in that range !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted March 7, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2017 We can't compete because Zeitler is a guard, and guard is an unimportant position that can be filled by any random drunk fan because pressure coming up the middle has absolutely no impact on QB effectiveness or the ability to run the ball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmyBengal Posted March 7, 2017 Report Share Posted March 7, 2017 Ok, so we have one All Pro level DT, but we have to keep another All Nothing level DT to provide the needed mentorship ?? Can't find anyone else to fill that role ?? Can't think of another guy capable of mentorship ?? Hmmmmm. If I were to pose something that crazy at work, I would be fired on the basis of sheer stupidity. But hey, this is the Bengals. Maybe they can bring back Landon Johnson to mentor whatever new LB we draft this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted March 7, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2017 6 minutes ago, ArmyBengal said: Ok, so we have one All Pro level DT, but we have to keep another All Nothing level DT to provide the needed mentorship ?? Can't find anyone else to fill that role ?? Can't think of another guy capable of mentorship ?? Hmmmmm. If I were to pose something that crazy at work, I would be fired on the basis of sheer stupidity. But hey, this is the Bengals. Maybe they can bring back Landon Johnson to mentor whatever new LB we draft this year. Nah, if they really want to mentor a new LB they need to bring back Odell. (And I've got a great choice to mentor a new WR...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmyBengal Posted March 7, 2017 Report Share Posted March 7, 2017 9 minutes ago, HoosierCat said: (And I've got a great choice to mentor a new WR...) Knock it off... lol 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COB Posted March 7, 2017 Report Share Posted March 7, 2017 1 hour ago, HoosierCat said: ..,coming up the middle... There's no room for this kind of talk here in Bengalszone. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COB Posted March 7, 2017 Report Share Posted March 7, 2017 1 hour ago, HoosierCat said: Hobson wrote this yesterday: Translation now that the pre-FA period has opened: they failed to get anyone to take a hometown discount. Oh... Can't keep one the leagues top guards but they can find money for one of its crappiest DTs. All these free agents and their rising stock! Propoganda Minister Hobson is just setting us up for the yearly, "can you believe the insane money these guys are getting? It'd be crazy to jump into that bidding war! Hey! Domota Peko just visited a school and told a bunch of little kids that readin' and writin' is good! Thank god for Peko in our community!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volcom69 Posted March 7, 2017 Report Share Posted March 7, 2017 Great idea waste money on a guy so he can be a mentor, oh why even bother anymore Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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